General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)
Moderators: Brad D, Annie, Jonah, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne
Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
I think there's something very intentional Frost and Lynch are doing by keeping the audience distanced from the familiarity of Twin Peaks, and that includes the relative shortage of that classic jazzy Badalamenti music, as well as some of the things Frost did with TSHOTP.
We're getting very detached snippets of familiar characters. We've learned almost nothing about what they've been up to these past 25 years. Nothing much seems to have changed for Hawk, Lucy and Andy. We know Andy and Lucy got married and had a kid, that's about it. Nor for Norma and Shelly (tragically so for Shelly, who hasn't changed at all in 25 years, even down to being attracted to dangerous men (it seems,) even while watching her daughter do the same thing). Heidi still giggles. James got into a motorcycle accident but he's basically seems the same, quietly swooning over pretty girls. Albert and Cole are the same. Denise climbed the ladder, but is basically the same. Dr. Jacoby has changed professions and maybe become even more unhinged. Nadine, well, we know she watched Dr. Jacoby. Ben at least outwardly seems more respectful of women than he used to be. Jerry has become a pot smoking hippy. Mike is basically the same only he manages a car dealership instead of being a jock. Bobby has obviously had a major transformation, but how did he get there? We don't know. Margaret is sadly close to death. The One Armed Man has a larger role in the lodge and The Arm has become a tree. The Giant may not be the Giant anymore. Carl Rodd has still been places. I've basically summarized everything we know about all the familiar characters through six episodes (I'm going off memory, it's possible I forgot someone). We're actually getting to know other characters in Twin Peaks more, particularly the unsavory characters. We've spent more time with Chad as a new member of the sheriff's department than Bobby.
Of all the characters from the original series, the one we've spent the most time with in the form he appears in the original series is Coop's Doppelganger. Coop himself has spent the entire series in the Lodge and beyond, then in a child like state of amnesia. The one moment where we've seen Coop act like Coop comes in a black and white shot which may be a flash forward right at the beginning of the season. Since that point, Coop's journey is mirroring what we as the audience are experiencing. Some familiarity and unfamiliarity in The Lodge. A lot of unfamiliarity in Vegas. Like us, Cooper knows nothing of the life he stepped into. Less than us, in fact. And he doesn't even know who he is. The few reminders, the coffee, the words agent and case files, are not quite close enough to wake him up (though the coffee, notably, at one point brings one of the few appearances of jazzy percussion).
I actually wouldn't be surprised if Coop doesn't start to wake up until he encounters familiar places or characters. And if that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if the scenes are accompanied by some familiar jazzy music.
We're getting very detached snippets of familiar characters. We've learned almost nothing about what they've been up to these past 25 years. Nothing much seems to have changed for Hawk, Lucy and Andy. We know Andy and Lucy got married and had a kid, that's about it. Nor for Norma and Shelly (tragically so for Shelly, who hasn't changed at all in 25 years, even down to being attracted to dangerous men (it seems,) even while watching her daughter do the same thing). Heidi still giggles. James got into a motorcycle accident but he's basically seems the same, quietly swooning over pretty girls. Albert and Cole are the same. Denise climbed the ladder, but is basically the same. Dr. Jacoby has changed professions and maybe become even more unhinged. Nadine, well, we know she watched Dr. Jacoby. Ben at least outwardly seems more respectful of women than he used to be. Jerry has become a pot smoking hippy. Mike is basically the same only he manages a car dealership instead of being a jock. Bobby has obviously had a major transformation, but how did he get there? We don't know. Margaret is sadly close to death. The One Armed Man has a larger role in the lodge and The Arm has become a tree. The Giant may not be the Giant anymore. Carl Rodd has still been places. I've basically summarized everything we know about all the familiar characters through six episodes (I'm going off memory, it's possible I forgot someone). We're actually getting to know other characters in Twin Peaks more, particularly the unsavory characters. We've spent more time with Chad as a new member of the sheriff's department than Bobby.
Of all the characters from the original series, the one we've spent the most time with in the form he appears in the original series is Coop's Doppelganger. Coop himself has spent the entire series in the Lodge and beyond, then in a child like state of amnesia. The one moment where we've seen Coop act like Coop comes in a black and white shot which may be a flash forward right at the beginning of the season. Since that point, Coop's journey is mirroring what we as the audience are experiencing. Some familiarity and unfamiliarity in The Lodge. A lot of unfamiliarity in Vegas. Like us, Cooper knows nothing of the life he stepped into. Less than us, in fact. And he doesn't even know who he is. The few reminders, the coffee, the words agent and case files, are not quite close enough to wake him up (though the coffee, notably, at one point brings one of the few appearances of jazzy percussion).
I actually wouldn't be surprised if Coop doesn't start to wake up until he encounters familiar places or characters. And if that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if the scenes are accompanied by some familiar jazzy music.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but is the season 18 hours or 18 episodes?
I'd figured it was 18 episodes of one hour each, but the individual episodes are a little under an hour, meaning 18 episodes would clock in somewhere around 17 hours. I also read that the final episodes is 2 hours, which would bring the tally up to 18 hours... unless it's episodes 17 & 18 bundled together a la the premiere, which would bring us back to 17 hours again...
I'd figured it was 18 episodes of one hour each, but the individual episodes are a little under an hour, meaning 18 episodes would clock in somewhere around 17 hours. I also read that the final episodes is 2 hours, which would bring the tally up to 18 hours... unless it's episodes 17 & 18 bundled together a la the premiere, which would bring us back to 17 hours again...
Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
18 hours = 18 episodes/parts.Henrys Hair wrote:Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but is the season 18 hours or 18 episodes?
I'd figured it was 18 episodes of one hour each, but the individual episodes are a little under an hour, meaning 18 episodes would clock in somewhere around 17 hours. I also read that the final episodes is 2 hours, which would bring the tally up to 18 hours... unless it's episodes 17 & 18 bundled together a la the premiere, which would bring us back to 17 hours again...
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
This thread would be a great place for the discussion of personal evaluations, our likes and dislikes.
It would be nice to keep the episode threads focused on the analysis of content as it pertains to story, style, and form.
Here people can express how they feel (I don't care); there people can analyze the actual story (something of genuine interest).
It would be nice to keep the episode threads focused on the analysis of content as it pertains to story, style, and form.
Here people can express how they feel (I don't care); there people can analyze the actual story (something of genuine interest).
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
Yeah, I think this thread can be about opinions and feelings on the overall series to date, individual episodes, theories, speculation - anything really. I just wanted this to be a thread where all opinions are welcome - the good, the bad, and the inbetween! What we like, what we don't is also a good idea. Everyone should be able to post freely here whether they love or loathe the new series, or are still mixed/undecided/on the fence.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
As I said in another thread, this new show isn't Twin Peaks. It's way too divergent from the original television show and film. It's definitely a Lynch production and it is interesting and riveting on it's own, but this really hasn't been a return to Twin Peaks.
Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
I started a thread about this myself, but what makes you more qualified to determine what is and what isn't Twin Peaks than Mark Frost and David Lynch?SoCalPeaksFan wrote:As I said in another thread, this new show isn't Twin Peaks. It's way too divergent from the original television show and film. It's definitely a Lynch production and it is interesting and riveting on it's own, but this really hasn't been a return to Twin Peaks.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
Well, as with any true art, it's open to interpretation. And that's regardless of the supposed intent of the creators. Plus, I think it's a given that my opinions are my own. 'The Return' has indeed stripped enough defining elements out of Twin Peaks that it's something else entirely. Now, one can still appreciate the new work, absolutely, but does anyone deny the disconnect with the original series/film?AgentEcho wrote:I started a thread about this myself, but what makes you more qualified to determine what is and what isn't Twin Peaks than Mark Frost and David Lynch?SoCalPeaksFan wrote:As I said in another thread, this new show isn't Twin Peaks. It's way too divergent from the original television show and film. It's definitely a Lynch production and it is interesting and riveting on it's own, but this really hasn't been a return to Twin Peaks.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
I do.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
I think an argument can be made TP:TR's experimental, unpredictable quality is truer to the first season than most of the safe-and-comfy sitcom stuff in much of season 2.SoCalPeaksFan wrote:Well, as with any true art, it's open to interpretation. And that's regardless of the supposed intent of the creators. Plus, I think it's a given that my opinions are my own. 'The Return' has indeed stripped enough defining elements out of Twin Peaks that it's something else entirely. Now, one can still appreciate the new work, absolutely, but does anyone deny the disconnect with the original series/film?
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
The way I see it, every entry in the Twin Peaks universe has already had its very distinctive personality - usually following what was best for its story. I've always found the differences between vanilla Peaks and FWWM to be not unlike the differences between either of those and TSD, MLMT, Access Guide and more recently TSHOTP. TPTR is, once again, its own thing, different from everything else that came before but well within the established range of differences. imho.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
In a meta sense that might be true, but as far as form and function of the work itself, not so much. 'The Return' is bold, but when you take risks sometimes it's a wild success as with the original Twin Peaks and sometimes it's a failure, which, so far, 'The Return' has been (in my opinion). Failure in the sense that this has NOT reached the level of Twin Peaks original run and really hasn't tried to create much continuity with that show in any substantial way. Obviously this is subject to change and maybe the next 12 episodes will put the first 6 in their proper context.Mr. Reindeer wrote:I think an argument can be made TP:TR's experimental, unpredictable quality is truer to the first season than most of the safe-and-comfy sitcom stuff in much of season 2.SoCalPeaksFan wrote:Well, as with any true art, it's open to interpretation. And that's regardless of the supposed intent of the creators. Plus, I think it's a given that my opinions are my own. 'The Return' has indeed stripped enough defining elements out of Twin Peaks that it's something else entirely. Now, one can still appreciate the new work, absolutely, but does anyone deny the disconnect with the original series/film?
Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
Each episode so far has been a little under an hour, so when all is said and done it might end up being more like a 16 hour movie.Henrys Hair wrote:Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but is the season 18 hours or 18 episodes?
I'd figured it was 18 episodes of one hour each, but the individual episodes are a little under an hour, meaning 18 episodes would clock in somewhere around 17 hours. I also read that the final episodes is 2 hours, which would bring the tally up to 18 hours... unless it's episodes 17 & 18 bundled together a la the premiere, which would bring us back to 17 hours again...
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
If it continues at the current rate, the whole thing will be just a smidge under 17 hours (each Part has been between 55-58 minutes, after subtracting the opening credits, except for Part 2, which was around 52).mtwentz wrote:Each episode so far has been a little under an hour, so when all is said and done it might end up being more like a 16 hour movie.
Of course, we have no idea at this point whether a few parts may be longer/shorter. Generally speaking, episode lengths of pay cable shows can vary pretty widely. The Sopranos, for example, had episodes as short as 45 minutes or so and also episodes over 70 minutes. Given Lynch's totally free reign on this project, it wouldn't surprise me at all if a few of the parts go over an hour.
Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)
Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but what "Twin Peaks" is IMO is not subjective. It's very objective. It's a series of fictional works created by Mark Frost and David Lynch, and they define what it is. Would you go so far as to say they should call this new series, which is objectively called "Twin Peaks", something different because it doesn't meet what is in your opinion the defining characteristics? You don't need to like what they create, but whatever you think this is objectively part of the Twin Peaks franchise.SoCalPeaksFan wrote:Well, as with any true art, it's open to interpretation. And that's regardless of the supposed intent of the creators. Plus, I think it's a given that my opinions are my own. 'The Return' has indeed stripped enough defining elements out of Twin Peaks that it's something else entirely. Now, one can still appreciate the new work, absolutely, but does anyone deny the disconnect with the original series/film?AgentEcho wrote:I started a thread about this myself, but what makes you more qualified to determine what is and what isn't Twin Peaks than Mark Frost and David Lynch?SoCalPeaksFan wrote:As I said in another thread, this new show isn't Twin Peaks. It's way too divergent from the original television show and film. It's definitely a Lynch production and it is interesting and riveting on it's own, but this really hasn't been a return to Twin Peaks.