Least Favorite Storyline in Twin Peaks

AgentEcho · Post by **AgentEcho** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:32 pm

All of the choices in the poll are pretty obvious ones, and all worthy of getting picked (though I will say that Lynch managed to get something good out of Leo as a vegetable and Nadine in high school plots, and managed to make the hokey melodrama of the Donna's father reveal feel surreal... the only other one he had a crack at was Donna and James and I didn't think he was able to salvage that exactly.).

I'm going to pick something that isn't so much a storyline as it is the lack of a storyline, or just a storyline getting dropped, and that was the lack of reaction to Maddie's death. Some of the other storylines were just television writers trying to fill the airtime with some kind of content, and I've sort of compartmentalized them as the "bad Twin Peaks". But I can't do that with Maddie's death precisely because the death scene itself was one of the most iconic, stunning scenes in the history of the medium. It's just an inexcusable ball drop in the writer's room.

Snailhead · Post by **Snailhead** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:57 pm

The James/Donna plot had its share of weak moments, but when I think of them I always recall their beautiful scene together at the Roadhouse in episode 14.
And I adore the "Just You" scene - it's interesting how some fans consider that the worst scene in the series.

Agent Sam Stanley · Post by **Agent Sam Stanley** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:50 pm

My favorite scene of James and Donna is in the pilot, the whole scene in the woods. IMO it's easily their best moment in the show.
I also like the Roadhouse scene in ep 14 and their first scene together in ep 16: "the engine sounded like a thousand people singing", "and what were they singing about?" "what do you think?" "last night?".
Such a sweet way to say they spent their first night together. I really like it.

WhiteLodge90 · Post by **WhiteLodge90** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:59 pm

AgentEcho wrote:All of the choices in the poll are pretty obvious ones, and all worthy of getting picked (though I will say that Lynch managed to get something good out of Leo as a vegetable and Nadine in high school plots, and managed to make the hokey melodrama of the Donna's father reveal feel surreal... the only other one he had a crack at was Donna and James and I didn't think he was able to salvage that exactly.).

I'm going to pick something that isn't so much a storyline as it is the lack of a storyline, or just a storyline getting dropped, and that was the lack of reaction to Maddie's death. Some of the other storylines were just television writers trying to fill the airtime with some kind of content, and I've sort of compartmentalized them as the "bad Twin Peaks". But I can't do that with Maddie's death precisely because the death scene itself was one of the most iconic, stunning scenes in the history of the medium. It's just an inexcusable ball drop in the writer's room.

I took it at as the town being insensitive to Maddy who I think everyone was getting a bit sick of and thought she didn't belong. She caused a riff in James and Donna's relationship, caused Dr. Jacoby to have a heart attack and I think the town probably felt it was too soon and too weird to have someone who looked exactly like the town sweetheart show up. Maybe that's why her death was kind of brushed off.

WhiteLodge90 · Post by **WhiteLodge90** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:01 pm

Agent Sam Stanley wrote:My favorite scene of James and Donna is in the pilot, the whole scene in the woods. IMO it's easily their best moment in the show.
I also like the Roadhouse scene in ep 14 and their first scene together in ep 16: "the engine sounded like a thousand people singing", "and what they were singing about?" "what do you think?" "last night?".
Such a sweet way to say they spent their first night together. I really like it.

I agree those were some of their high points but the lowest was the over dramatic break up and bits right before and after Maddie's death. I found them to be a bit too cheesy and melodramatic.

Agent Sam Stanley · Post by **Agent Sam Stanley** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:09 pm

Aerozhul wrote:
Agent Sam Stanley wrote:
Aerozhul wrote: I think Zane does the best he can with what little he had to work with. Zane is a pretty good actor in other stuff (Dead Calm - in which he was really creepy, Titanic). He seems to work better as a villain than a good guy, though. Honestly I don't think it would have mattered what male actor was brought in to be Audrey's love interest - the fact that he wasn't Cooper was basically a no-win.
Yep, Zane is terrific in Dead Calm, which is one of my all time favorite films. I don't remember him very well in Titanic, I think I've only watched that film once. Not really my type of film TBH.
He is also pretty good in a 1998 John Landis comedy called 'Susan's Plan'. Lara Flynn Boyle is also in it and they're both hilarious.

Re Audrey and JJW, I don't think Zane worked in the role. I don't find him charming or sexy, just kind of dorky (that scene he sings to her, as Truman would say, "Good Lord..."). But I like Wheeler's interactions with her. They're both kind of stubborn, Audrey wants to be appreciated for who she is and Wheeler wants to be appreciated period, but Audrey won't give in. That kind of interaction would never happen with Cooper, so at least they tried a different angle. I kind of like it, it's not the disaster everyone says it is. But like you said, I guess the fans would have a problem with any actor who wasn't Kyle doing romantic scenes with her, so it was a no win case before it even began.
Another problem I see with it (I'm rewatching these episodes now) is that both Wheeler and Audrey fall for each other way too quickly. Annie and Cooper did also, but at least there they did a better job of selling it, probably mostly because of Kyle's abilities. I believe the Annie/Coop romance, no matter how absurd it is, but I don't believe Wheeler and Audrey because there's definitely charm and attraction there on both sides, but love after 2-3 days? Don't believe it.

My thoughts exactly. The thing is Annie is one of a kind, she's rediscovering the world and can appreciate the beauty of little things. She's a perfect match for Cooper, I can see him falling for her in a few days. Also, I think MacLachlan and Graham had a good chemistry together, which also helped.
With Audrey and Jack is different. I like the interaction between them and some of their dialog but I can't see them falling for each other in a few days. And they didn't have to. They could still enjoy each others company and have a 3 day fling, but I guess the scene at the airport wouldn't be so dramatic without Audrey's "I love you!".

Agent Earle · Post by **Agent Earle** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:52 pm

claaa7 wrote:definitely look up "Yellow", and if you haven't seen it before you should watch "Paths of Glory" by the great Stanley Kubrick (my favorite director tied with Lynch witout a doubt).. now i'm going to go back to the original thread topic, but just one last post that might interest many since we are discussing horror anthologies and famous directors. in the late '80s Steven Spielberg produced an anthology series called "Amazing Stories".. it really wasn't much to write home about imo, but what's interesting is that Martin Scorsese actually directed an episode for the show. "Mirror Mirror" it's called, and it was his first and only foray into televison until "Boardwalk Empire" in like 2010. it used to be on YouTube but unfortunately it's not there anymore, you can read about it here - https://directorsseries.net/2016/05/13/ ... rror-1986/

and while we're at it, David Cronenberg (another one of my top 5 directors) also made it to the small screen via the Canadian horror anthology "Friday the 13th: The Series" in 1986 (it has nothing to do with Jason), using most of his trusted film crew. this one is definitely worth watching if you like Cronenberg as much as i do (be sure to watch it ASAP as it keeps getting deleted from YouTube):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPXo-oAvevI

45 minutes of prime Cronenberg cirka "The Fly", "Videodrome", "Dead Ringers"

I actually haven't seen any Kubrick beyond his Stephen King adaptation The Shining (and that one in abbreviated, European cut), which I liked very much (though I have a soft spot for King-scripted miniseries remake from 1997 as well, starring Steven Weber and Rebecca De Mornay and directed by Mick Garris, the latter also responsible for hatching Masters of Horror concept). I realize a have a lot of homework to do

Yeah, from what I remember of Amazing Stories (I watched a few eps of its first season way back when), it was all rather tame and pedestrian. Other anthologies from that period, like The Hitchhiker (another HBO one), Tales from the Darkside, and Alfred Hitchcock Presents (the colored 80's version) are much jucier and zestier.

Always heard good things about Friday the 13th: The Series. I know Jason movies don't figure into it; it's rather a sort of anthology format (like Freddy's Nightmares from the same time is) where a group of paranormal investigators deals with different case each episode (is that right?). I had absolutely no idea, however, that David Cronenberg had anything to do with it; that makes me happy, since I adore his work and find the period ranging roughly from The Brood (1978) to Dead Ringers (1988) to be his strongest one (though I do like a lot of his newer stuff as well, for instance eXistenZ, History of Violence, Eastern Promises, and Maps to the Stars). Will have to look it up!

Agent Earle · Post by **Agent Earle** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:57 pm

AgentEcho wrote:
I'm going to pick something that isn't so much a storyline as it is the lack of a storyline, or just a storyline getting dropped, and that was the lack of reaction to Maddie's death. Some of the other storylines were just television writers trying to fill the airtime with some kind of content, and I've sort of compartmentalized them as the "bad Twin Peaks". But I can't do that with Maddie's death precisely because the death scene itself was one of the most iconic, stunning scenes in the history of the medium. It's just an inexcusable ball drop in the writer's room.

Agreed! The episode (at the very least one but it'd be nice if that feeling carried through the end of the series) following the killer's undoing should be all about the town in the grips of loss, shock, sadness, and an all-around emotional devastation. And what did we get instead? Nadine looking at a reflection of her knickers!

Agent Earle · Post by **Agent Earle** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:58 pm

Snailhead wrote:The James/Donna plot had its share of weak moments, but when I think of them I always recall their beautiful scene together at the Roadhouse in episode 14.
And I adore the "Just You" scene - it's interesting how some fans consider that the worst scene in the series.

The "Just You" scene is CLASSIC Twin Peaks AT ITS BEST!

Agent Earle · Post by **Agent Earle** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:02 am

Agent Sam Stanley wrote:
The thing is Annie is one of a kind, she's rediscovering the world and can appreciate the beauty of little thing. She's a perfect match for Cooper, I can see him falling for her in a few days. Also, I think MacLachlan and Graham had a good chemistry together, which also helped.
With Audrey and Jack is different. I like the interaction between them and some of their dialog but I can't see them falling for each other in a few days. And they didn't have to. They could still enjoy each others company and have a 3 day fling, but I guess the scene at the airport wouldn't be so dramatic without Audrey's "I love you!".

RIGHT-O! On both counts.

Gabriel · Post by **Gabriel** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:46 am

Because I watched and adored the show from day one, it's difficult actually to say I really hated anything in it. It was always a wild ride and, because it was a story being revealed slowly on a week-to-week basis, you'd never know what would be coming next. Watching it back as a (sort of) complete entity, obviously there are some things that don't work as well as others in retrospect, but I'd argue that even as recently as 1990, TV shows were still being made on the basis that they'd be viewed once on a weekly basis and only a hard core fan would be keeping them on a VHS or Betamax tape for constant rewatching. It would be some years before The X-Files started the season box set method of marketing shows as opposed to the very expensive drip feed of a couple of episodes per VHS tape. As a result, a weaker storyline could be disposed of quite quickly and the viewers shrug and forget about it. Now, programme makers have to be so much more careful because, there'll be a few hundred poisonous little trolls on Twitter just waiting to attack or deliberately take offence at something at a particular moment in a show, take screen grabs and bang on about it until kingdom come. Home video and the ability to pore over every minute detail has its drawbacks sometimes.

So I voted for Donna and James in season two. As a season-long storyline, it failed to live up to what was set up in season one, mostly because they changed the character of Donna in such a negative way. James and Evelyn was a weak rehash of a Zalman King type of film, Little Nicky (and, quite frankly, Dick Tremayne) was really pointless and perhaps shows the biggest problem with season two: too many new characters (I'll include the reworked Donna as 'new') lacking the strengths of those introduced in season one, watering down the focus on the already substantial core group.

Whatever the case, I'm still enjoying my rewatch of the show, just as I'm about to enter the post-Laura Palmer era.

Mr. Reindeer · Post by **Mr. Reindeer** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:31 am

Gabriel wrote:Watching it back as a (sort of) complete entity, obviously there are some things that don't work as well as others in retrospect, but I'd argue that even as recently as 1990, TV shows were still being made on the basis that they'd be viewed once on a weekly basis and only a hard core fan would be keeping them on a VHS or Betamax tape for constant rewatching. It would be some years before The X-Files started the season box set method of marketing shows as opposed to the very expensive drip feed of a couple of episodes per VHS tape.

Wasn't TP season 1 released in laserdisc and VHS box sets circa 1991? I think it was one of the first series to do so.

I agree that TP's storytelling style is emblematic of the era. However, Frost's "novel for television" conception of the series (with the episodes as unnamed "chapters") and the unorthodox production of the first season to make it a more cohesive work set the bar high, which is probably why the general public held TP to a higher standard when it might have given another show the benefit of the doubt for a lull period.

Of course, there is a really fascinating dichotomy between the "novel for television" idea (which implies a beginning, middle and ending) and the stated desire on both Lynch & Frost's parts to create a story that could go on indefinitely. The two ideas seem mutually exclusive, and maybe having one foot in each world was as big a part of what tore TP apart as the resolution of the murder.

Gabriel · Post by **Gabriel** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:47 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote: Wasn't TP season 1 released in laserdisc and VHS box sets circa 1991? I think it was one of the first series to do so.

I'm mostly thinking in British terms, but here we had the likes of Star Trek coming out at the rate of £10 for two episodes and the concept of an entire season being released in one go while the show was still airing was broadly unknown. I remember the Twin Peaks VHS box set, but it was a collection of the tapes also released individually and insanely pricey.

I agree that TP's storytelling style is emblematic of the era. However, Frost's "novel for television" conception of the series (with the episodes as unnamed "chapters") and the unorthodox production of the first season to make it a more cohesive work set the bar high, which is probably why the general public held TP to a higher standard when it might have given another show the benefit of the doubt for a lull period.

Of course, there is a really fascinating dichotomy between the "novel for television" idea (which implies a beginning, middle and ending) and the stated desire on both Lynch & Frost's parts to create a story that could go on indefinitely. The two ideas seem mutually exclusive, and maybe having one foot in each world was as big a part of what tore TP apart as the resolution of the murder.

Yeah, it always amazes me the way the show burns through storylines. I would expect a TV novel to take a bit longer over the likes of the Josie Packard/Thomas Eckhardt/Andrew Packard storyline, engaging in flashbacks and delving into her links with Laura. Indeed, more flashbacks could have been a way to keep Laura in the story even after the Leland revelation.

the woods · Post by **the woods** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:21 pm

yes i really liked the "just you" scene!
the james/evelyn marsh plot was indeed pretty taxing, and i can see why so many people voted for it. outside the context of being part of the series however, and folks (including myself) just wishing they'd get past it and get back to TP, it would have made a pretty good RKO hour long b in 1949 or so, so i kind of think it's nice that they tried it.
if i had to pick something else, it would be the miss twin peaks line. it seemed a little bit fillerish. i would have been happier with a straightforward variety spin off to show the cast's and/or character's talents. i enjoyed pinkle though (david lander was even better in a similar way in " on the air") and to it's credit, the production design of the actual contest was beautiful and kind of made the whole thing worth it.

claaa7 · Post by **claaa7** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:46 pm

the "Just You" scene is marvelous, i can only agree with above posters... i often see it mentioned as some of the most cringe worthy material on the show or as extremely funny in its silliness.. i don't see that AT ALL. i think that scene holds a lot of truths, the way they all act so great without any dialouge, and the chemistry between the three of them are extremely well directed. the only thing is that James voice clearly sounds heavily studio manipulated which makes it a little weird, but so what... and when that moment of innocence and beauty is destroyed by jealousy and hidden feelings Bob suddenly makes his entrance in one of the scariest scenes of the series. Classic Lynch!