Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

[claaa7]

I just rewatched this episode and need help.

Spoiler:

1. Why was Briggs' prints found 16 times ("where this time?")? Did he physically teleport a lot while in the Lodge?

2. The Laura/Fireman creation music plays while Dougie is crying at Sonny Jim. It played when Coop says goodbye to them in part 16 as well. Maybe it's a family theme? (Coop/Janey-E/Sonny Jim and Fireman/Senortia Dido/Laura?)

3. Steven didn't have a blue rose on his tie did he?

4. I think it's suggested that Norma would often shell out money to Shelly back in the day.

5. Still don't understand the Argentina box.

mods - do we really need the spoilers at this point? the sub-forum is called "Season 3: The Return (Spoilers)".. anyway here are my thoughts on your first two questions.

Spoiler:

1. my interpretation is that shortly after the events of TSHoTP and Mister C visting Briggs at his station he returned to The White Lodge / The Zone to hide out or "hibernate" as he called it. time moves differently in there which is why he hadn't aged for all those years when the Woodsmen finally catched up to him and killed him after Ruth Davenport and Bill accidentally had led them to him... remember that Briggs, Cooper and Cole had formulated a plan where they were going to find JUDY and destroy it. as someone else here suggested perhaps Briggs left his fingerprints on known crime scenes during this time as a message to Gordon Cole to let him know that he was still A-OK. it could also be that his work to find JUDY led him to these crime scenes.

2. i haven't rewatched Part 5 in some time but i'm pretty positive that it's actually the "Accident / Farewell Theme" that is being played over that scene with Sonny Jim in the car. as you say it is also played in the farewell scene at the casino, but also during the child dying in front of his mother in ep. 6 and the death of, and eulogy for, Margaret Lanterman. as such it is a theme of deep loss, grief and departure, so in this scene it works as foreshadowing the moment to come in ep. 16. it's like Cooper knows that this is not his real child and family and knows that he must leave them behind.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Anyone able to say more about the statue?

It really reminds me of a giant version of a 1 32nd scale green plastic soldier that I used to play with in the 1970s..... that exact pose...

The uniform seems to be the US army Vietnam era OG 107 Cotton Sateen Utility Uniform:
1496675373-new-twin-peaks-statue.jpg
OG 107 SATEEN suit 290113 01.JPG

I WISH OG 107 stood for Original Gangster, but in this context it is Olive Green!
So why is this seemingly Vietnam era statue at Dougie's workplace and why is Coop so struck by it?
Anyone remember anything about Coop's father from My Life My Tapes?

))))))) This is James Stewart from the movie "The FBI Story" (1959)!)
(John Michael ('Chip') Hardesty (James Stewart) narrates the story of a murder, which the viewer sees in a....(!)FLASHBACK(!). Young Jack Graham (Nick Adams), takes out life insurance on his mother and plants a bomb in her luggage for a flight that she was taking from Denver, Colorado, to Portland, Oregon, November 1, 1955)
P.S.:
The Autobiography - of - F.B.I. Special Agent Dale Cooper My Life, My Tapes
As heard by Scott Frost
"...Above my bed on the wall is my most important personal item, a poster of.......(!) Jimmy Stewart......(!)... in the movie The FBI Story which only I can touch. I am talking into a Norelco B2000 reel-to-reel tape-playing recorder that I received as a Christmas present. I gave Dad a bottle of Old Spice and a pair of Totes, and Mom a nonstick spatula set..."

DKL appears to have shut this theory down in a recent interview: http://www.vulture.com/2017/10/dougies- ... nd-it.html

He says the statue was inspired by a “selfie” his dad took, and he expresses disappointment that the statue didn’t look more like his dad.

Maybe a rogue propmaker/TP fanatic was responsible for the FBI Story parallel without DKL’s blessing or knowledge?

[Xavi]

DKL appears to have shut this theory down in a recent interview: http://www.vulture.com/2017/10/dougies- ... nd-it.html

He says the statue was inspired by a “selfie” his dad took, and he expresses disappointment that the statue didn’t look more like his dad.

Maybe a rogue propmaker/TP fanatic was responsible for the FBI Story parallel without DKL’s blessing or knowledge?

So, what's the meaning now we know that it had to look like his dad?

[Mr. Reindeer]

Just before Lt. Knox enters Col. Davis’s office, an offscreen female voice (which I am 65% certain is Sheryl Lee) says, “You can go in now,” echoing Laura’s “You can go out now” and Jeffries’s “You can go in now,” both spoken to Dale. Hmm.

Charlotte asks Richard (who has Black Lodge lineage), “Can I get a light?”

A few things about the Jacoby sequence:

Many viewers probably realized that he has the whole scene’s dialogue written out in front of him (likely a useful aid for Tamblyn as well as in-world for Jacoby). The handwritten script is pretty much identical to what we hear onscreen (one possible bit of improv: “roof” is changed to “ruff! ruff! ruff!”). Oddly, the Pete Seeger line appears to be crossed out in the “script,” even though it was shot and made it into the cut.

Does Jacoby have a jar of cigarette butts next to him?!

I love that Nadine has a porcelain deer in her office, calling to mind her collection of figures from the original show.

What the hell is up with Jerry’s TV/iPad? The composition of those shots bugged me when I was streaming on Showtime, and now that I can verify how the shot looks in HD, it’s super awkward. It looks like the TV wasn’t actually there and was just awkwardly composited in later. The TV doesn’t have a base, it just sort of disappears into the rock. Is this meant to be Jerry’s equivalent of Frank’s James Bond-style retractable computer monitor? What gives?

[Mr. Reindeer]

There is a possible indication of a deleted or alternate scene when Dougie walks toward the Lucky 7 building, at 15:40. We see him from the back and can’t see his left arm, but the arm is not at his side, and the position of his shoulder makes me think that his arm is extended in front of him, probably in the “gun pointing” stance of the lawman statue. His arm is at his side in the preceding and succeeding shots. I’m guessing DKL toyed with the idea of having Dougie walk around with “gun” extended and thought better of it, and may have shot the scene both ways.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Those two Johnny Jewel pieces really bookend the Part beautifully. “The Flame” playing over that opening montage of Vegas has a sort of a sadness and a mood to it that generally isn’t associated with the town, and it makes all the neon and artificiality feel really melancholy.

The scene with Mike Nelson cracks me up every time. I love his unjustified outrage. “What an asshole!”

It’d be fun to see The Ghostly Adventures of Garland Briggs, what he was up to all these years and how his prints got on all those other crime scenes.

Trouble is really great. I know they released one other song as a B side to “Snake Eyes” back in 2017. Did they ever put anything else out?

I love the Buenos Aires space and the room to dream that it leaves the audience. It looks like a neglected file room or derelict file storage space. I’m guessing that this was the device that Jeffries (or was it always someone impersonating him?) used to contact Mr. C on his device as we see in Part 2. Is “The cow jumped over the moon” a code to cause the machine to self-destruct?

Hey, it’s Nacho’s dad from Better Call Saul as the security guard at the end! Always great to see Ernie Hudson as well.

DoppelCoop’s Diet:
— “And now, food is coming.” The prison guard serves the Doppelganger a plate of fruit slices (pineapple, watermelon, cantaloupe, and possibly honeydew), plain oatmeal, and orange juice

DougieCoop’s Diet:
— DougieCoop drinks the coffee Phil bought for Frank from Szymon’s Famous Coffees (Phil: “Damn good Joe, huh, Dougie?” Coop: “Damn good Joe.”); he also eyes Mary’s coffee in the Lucky 7 lobby even while he’s drinking his own!

It’s implied that tulpa Dougie Jones was a heavy drinker; Janey-E tells DougieCoop, “No more drinking and gambling,” and Anthony Sinclair assumes Dougie was on a bender during his time missing

[AXX°N N.]

I love the Buenos Aires space and the room to dream that it leaves the audience. It looks like a neglected file room or derelict file storage space. I’m guessing that this was the device that Jeffries (or was it always someone impersonating him?) used to contact Mr. C on his device as we see in Part 2. Is “The cow jumped over the moon” a code to cause the machine to self-destruct?

My head-canon (I want to say theory, but this feels too much like extrapolation!) is that the box is like a proxy, and if not a channel to what allows the prison hacking, is itself what allows the hacking, and that yes, it self-destructs upon the nursery rhyme. This feels consistent with the way Mr. C habitually covers his tracks and severs anything that can be traced back to him, but also that he, apparently, has access to a criminal network of hackers. I also like the idea that it's a tulpa, which in their irl lore, can not only take the form of people, but objects. Cyber-specters!

[Mr. Reindeer]

I love the Buenos Aires space and the room to dream that it leaves the audience. It looks like a neglected file room or derelict file storage space. I’m guessing that this was the device that Jeffries (or was it always someone impersonating him?) used to contact Mr. C on his device as we see in Part 2. Is “The cow jumped over the moon” a code to cause the machine to self-destruct?

My head-canon (I want to say theory, but this feels too much like extrapolation!) is that the box is like a proxy, and if not a channel to what allows the prison hacking, is itself what allows the hacking, and that yes, it self-destructs upon the nursery rhyme. This feels consistent with the way Mr. C habitually covers his tracks and severs anything that can be traced back to him, but also that he, apparently, has access to a criminal network of hackers. I also like the idea that it's a tulpa, which in their irl lore, can not only take the form of people, but objects. Cyber-specters!

In terms of Mr. C covering his tracks: yeah, I’d hate to work for the guy! In Part 2 alone he kills pretty much everyone he comes into contact with.

Just so we’re clear: Lorraine gets the initial job to kill DougieCoop from Duncan Todd, and she farms it out to Gene and Jake. When they haven’t completed it, she texts “2” to the box (ARGENT), presumably as an acknowledgement of her failure? Mr. C then somehow gets the message, or perhaps just senses that Cooper is still alive (or maybe he even hears something on the phone when he calls the box from prison). Presumably the nursery rhyme doubles as both a self-destruct sequence for the box and also a kill order for Lorraine. Does that seem right?

The relationship between Mr. C and the Woodsmen is a real mystery. I’d initially assumed they assisted him in killing Briggs, but now my suspicion is that they killed Garland to prevent Mr. C from getting the coordinates, and planted the ring in his stomach to leave a trail of breadcrumbs leading back to Cooper.

[LateReg]

The relationship between Mr. C and the Woodsmen is a real mystery. I’d initially assumed they assisted him in killing Briggs, but now my suspicion is that they killed Garland to prevent Mr. C from getting the coordinates, and planted the ring in his stomach to leave a trail of breadcrumbs leading back to Cooper.

If that is so, why do you think they revive him/restore Bob in Part 8/17? Or is that not what they're doing?

[AXX°N N.]

Just so we’re clear: Lorraine gets the initial job to kill DougieCoop from Duncan Todd, and she farms it out to Gene and Jake. When they haven’t completed it, she texts “2” to the box (ARGENT), presumably as an acknowledgement of her failure? Mr. C then somehow gets the message, or perhaps just senses that Cooper is still alive (or maybe he even hears something on the phone when he calls the box from prison). Presumably the nursery rhyme doubles as both a self-destruct sequence for the box and also a kill order for Lorraine. Does that seem right?

The relationship between Mr. C and the Woodsmen is a real mystery. I’d initially assumed they assisted him in killing Briggs, but now my suspicion is that they killed Garland to prevent Mr. C from getting the coordinates, and planted the ring in his stomach to leave a trail of breadcrumbs leading back to Cooper.

I forgot to factor that in; now it seems like the box is a miracle device.

Yes! I'm so glad to see someone else independently come to that conclusion, as I've recently come to it as well. I outlined my thinking in this sort of long and involved post, plus one on the next page, more generally about the entire Briggs/Ray subplot, for anyone curious.

[Mr. Reindeer]

The relationship between Mr. C and the Woodsmen is a real mystery. I’d initially assumed they assisted him in killing Briggs, but now my suspicion is that they killed Garland to prevent Mr. C from getting the coordinates, and planted the ring in his stomach to leave a trail of breadcrumbs leading back to Cooper.

If that is so, why do you think they revive him/restore Bob in Part 8/17? Or is that not what they're doing?

Good question. I’m just spitballing here... Assuming for the sake of argument that they’re working for Judy, who wants to be with Bob again, perhaps keeping Bob in Cooper is the easiest way to get Bob back in the Lodge? Bob has a history of going rogue, as seen in FWWM. Maybe the Doppelganger was his escape hatch from the Lodge. If the Lodge can get the Doppel back, they also regain control of Bob (hence why Mike and MfAP/EoTA are so eager to help “our” Cooper). Imagine all the garmonbozia he’s accrued over 25 years!

It’s interesting that in Part 5, even Mr. C isn’t quite sure that Bob is still with him until he looks in the mirror.

[LateReg]

That makes a lot of sense actually.

[430_chalfonts]

Hey all! This is my very first post. I can't believe it's been 4 years since this premiered. I feel like I'm still only beginning to grasp certain details.

The image I attached is a screenshot is from the first moments of Part 5. At the beginning, we get a couple of colorful, neon-laden establishing shots of the Vegas strip, and then this, before cutting to Gene and Jake out front of Dougie's sex house. I noticed this at some point in the last year and wanted to share. I did my best to try to see if this had been mentioned elsewhere, to avoid repeating old news, and I wasn't able to find anything.

Can we discuss?

These are some of my immediate thoughts for the sake of discussion, but I'm curious if anyone else noticed this, what people think, etc. Obviously, it could just be an interesting, subtle, but ultimately unimportant detail. I do feel like it's safe to say that it's not nothing, as they clearly had to put some thought into this.

--

Some thoughts I've had so far...

This image immediately made me think of:

• when Dougie's limo driver says "It's hard to see colors at night" (2x)

• the opening Rancho Roso logo of a bulb (usually in color) flashing (waking up?) over a black & white background

There are also implications about the reality DougieCoop finds himself in in part 3. Throughout season 3, black & white scenes are usually associated with the past. I've also seen cinematographer Peter Deming describe the black & white scenes in interviews as a "third reality." Another association to consider are the many shots of b/w surveilance footage at the casino, which relate back to Cooper seeing a double of himself in the surveilance still of Jeffries's entrance in FWWM. We also see how black and white changes to color when Coop brings Laura away from death and over to the 13th sycamore.

I think we can also associate black and white with Judy/the Experiment/the inside of Sarah Palmer in Part 14, as well as with the Fireman's mansion.

Perhaps this shot is a clue that DougieCoop is actually in the black & white place, whatever it actually is. Maybe Naido pulled the lever on the electrical machine so that DougieCoop would be able to perceive color when he enters the black & white reality through the numbered socket. After all, the color palette and the perception of time within the post-Naido box-in-space change so that they align with the "reality" that Coop is more familiar with. Due to the presence of the blue rose in the new version of that room, coupled with Major Briggs's "blue rose" warning just moments before, I'm now thinking that Coop was being cautioned to take what he experiences on the other side of the socket with a grain of salt. Where he goes is perhaps not "real" or "present" in the way Cooper might think. All of this could therefore be further clues about what Cooper eventually gets wrong, particularly when he creates another tulpa.

Phillip Gerard does ask Coop at the beginning of part 2 (and the beginning of part 18), "Is it future or is it past?" The question is asked twice, so it is therefore quite important, and perhaps meant to be a piece of guiding advice for Coop before he heads out of the waiting room. We also have the Giant's warning or set of clues, and then the warning or clue of Major Briggs, all of which could be fundamentally the same: don't get seduced into the wrong reality.

Anyway, this could also simply be a flourish that adds some thematic, metaphorical nuance to the Las Vegas sequences. For example, the black & white could represent the drab reality of the Rancho Rosa estates and perhaps even of life itself, whereas the illuminated, colorful billboard represents the subjective dream that we project onto the harsh truth of existence. It could also even just be a reference to the fact that we see color because of light, and that without light (the Laura orb?) the world really is just shades of grey.

Regardless of whether or not this shot "means" anything, it really resonated with me.