2021 Thoughts on Season 3

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Jonah
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2021 Thoughts on Season 3

Post by Jonah »

Edit - The topic has been split (the next few posts were originally part of the Why Did ABC Treat Twin Peaks So Badly? thread). Looking back, I tried to figure out where things diverged - and it seems to have started with one of my posts! I was replying to AudreyHorne about Season 2 and mentioned Season 3 and it went from there. So here we go, new thread from this point onwards....

I really miss that feeling the original series had of his episodes almost punctuating the show at times, that feeling that you were in for something really special, likely some sort of an event episode too once you saw "Directed by David Lynch". The Return didn't have that same feeling because he directed every episode. It's one of the reasons I've said - in the unpopular opinion thread - that I don't necessarily feel every episode needed to be directed by him or co-written by him and Mark Frost. Most fans won't agree with that and now that the precedent seems to have been set, I think it will always be expected to be that way, but I feel the show could have been revived and put into the capable hands of other showrunners/writers/directors handpicked by Lynch and Frost, with them providing a blueprint, and coming in to write/direct certain episodes. Not The Return itself because it was so very much its own thing, but perhaps subsequent seasons, though maybe not as there's probably no going back to that now and they wouldn't let the show back out of their hands - I just feel it was an option at some point.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Brad D
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

Post by Brad D »

Can’t agree with Jonah any more. I think some other voices in the script and other eyes behind the camera are sorely needed for something with 18 installments. Keeps things fresh and alive. Lynch coming in and disrupting things, then coming back to do it again, all while other people are giving him ideas to run with. I know this is an extremely unpopular viewpoint. But will say certain points of The Return just get exhausting at the mercy of Lynch and his whims.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

Post by Audrey Horne »

Well, my two get off the couch and jump up and down are both from season two. Cooper rescuing Audrey was a screaming fist bump with the viewing crowd, probably the best earned cheering. And then the killer reveal was the running around the room covering my face… brilliant to be waiting to find out whodunit and instead flip the script with what is happening?!!!

Season One basically for me set up the best perfect room of toys and playground for anticipation, Season Two I was more in that fog and thinking it was going to be really exciting and kept thinking wow, they are really taking some wrong turns in the most boring way possible. I still think season two and The Return could’ve been the same story they were but made much more effectively. Ha, I’m really tough in this show only because the initial bar was set really, really high.

* Oh I missed a Brad post… what is today, 2008? And also completely agree.

I think it needed a really basic pedestrian spine in order to successfully deviate or explore the surrealism in between.
Last edited by Audrey Horne on Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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I agree with both of you. I'm willing to cut The Return a bit of slack (even though I have a lot of problems with it) and sort of accept it as its own messy but very Lynchian thing (far from the Season 3 I wanted as possible and as I imagine you both did, but can sort of appreciate it as its own thing, though there's a lot of it that frankly I don't like). But I think it launched the show back on Showtime, and that was the perfect time to then bring in a hand-picked team for a couple of more seasons, with Lynch/Frost guiding the ship again like in the original series, overseeing everything, less pressure than with ABC in the 90's giving them notes, threatening cancellation, etc. Here they had a cable channel with no notes and probably no cancellation fears either - could take it a season at a time. Let Lynch/Frost provide an overview for the season, write/direct the first and last two episodes, and maybe one or two in the middle, then bring in another team to do the rest. This could have gotten the ball rolling on more episodes a few years ago.

As Brad said, though, it's an extremely unpopular opinion - probably mostly shared by those of us who preferred the original series more - and I just think a lot of fans will accept nothing less than Lynch directing every episode now after The Return. But I don't think it necessarily has to be that way. The Return would've benefited from this too, but fair enough that was bringing the show back after 25 years, so I can understand why Lynch and Frost wanted to do the whole thing - but going forward it could have been a collaborative project again with heavy hands-on from both. I know people will chime in and say they wouldn't want to risk putting it in other's hands again, but that isn't what killed the show back then - ABC killed it, and Lynch/Frost stepping away killed it (and this time they could keep a tighter grip on things), and also a restless 90's audience not as used to provocative, narrative-bending TV as they are today and before all the other stuff they have now such as streaming channels and shorter seasons and years-long breaks between seasons. In some ways I think a collaborative/overseeing role these days would suit Lynch more, allowing him to dip back into the world and play in it but not be pressured into mounting the whole thing. And while he says he doesn't like Season 2, he did seem to appreciate a lot of what the other directors were doing back then (at least publicly he claimed to), and quite frankly there are much more nuanced directors he'd be able to chose from now who weren't accustomed to working in more traditional TV shows as back then, but who have probably worked on HBO shows, and series like LOST or Breaking Bad or what have you, even more cutting edge stuff (some of the directors back then were cutting edge too, but you know what I mean).
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

Post by AXX°N N. »

Personally I dislike whenever I sense a trading of hands. Lost is one of my favorite series, but I can tell immediately when an episode isn't written by Lindelof/Cuse or directed by Bender. There are some episodes I love that have a distinct flavor because of whoever is writing or directing that week, but mostly it just means something is lost (excuse the pun) and muddied by a less than coherent vision/sensibility. In a similar sense, I do get enjoyment out of non-Lynch TP, I enjoy Peyton's snappy writing and I'm thankful in a way, as it's not something I'd ever seek out on its own were it not attached to the rest--but I still vastly prefer TR's singularity. I'm not much of a TV watcher, though--I'm more into novels, and I'd bristle at someone saying Kafka's writing, for instance, "really needed some extra eyes on it."
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

Post by Audrey Horne »

I get that. But for the most part, film is collaborative. Hitchcock, Ford, Hawks, Capra, Wilder, Wyler, Lubitsch worked with some of the best writers around. (Preston Sturges could do both expertly) … and for me though I love David, I don’t think writing dialogue is his strong suit. And to me, Peaks always had one foot strongly planted in classic cinema land where snappy dialogue is so important.

Ha, that brief scene where Cooper/Dougie watched Sunset Blvd. reinforced this for me.

While I’m at it, in retrospect how do you not bring Piper friggin’ Laurie back to The Return?
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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I think future seasons could easily go back to being collaborative, The Return being along with FWWM more unique Lynch-helmed projects, before it opens back up to collaboration again. I think it's just too much for him to mount at his age or for anyone to mount a show with so many episodes. But the best thing is we'd have those special Directed by David Lynch episodes again. Of course, I also understand if he - and Frost - don't want to let others into their playhouse, but I think it would benefit the show (provided they picked the right people and there were some strong agreements in place about what to do and what not to do). I'm not for a moment saying other writers and directors would do a better job, I just think it would allow more episodes to be produced without as much pressure on two people, and mainly one person, who could then focus on specific episodes and an overview/plan without having their creativity completely drained.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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I'm not going to steer the discussion into a "The Return is better with Lynch solely at the helm" because we all know where and why we stand on that, and I get where everyone is coming from. But I wholly agree with Axxon here, and was going to respond before I even saw their post.

Quality judgments aside, and just focusing on directors, if you were to get other directors involved with something as singular as The Return, the thing would fall apart. Yes, there's a lot of great and nuanced TV directors who excel at adapting a tone, but what Lynch is doing with The Return is so singular that it wouldn't work as a cohesive/coherent whole if others took over directing duties. (I know, I know, some might laugh at that because they find The Return to be anything but cohesive/coherent haha.) It's not "regular" TV like Mad Men, or even something very directorial like Mindhunter, where Fincher sets a tone and other directors expertly follow it. I just don't think, in this day and age, The Return could have worked under the old-school television model. At any rate, it would have been an entirely different program. Which is what is being debated and what some might have wanted of course, so in that sense we're back to square one! Just saying that I don't think it would work for something as mood and tone-based as The Return as it was envisioned, scripted and paced.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Audrey Horne wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:51 pm While I’m at it, in retrospect how do you not bring Piper friggin’ Laurie back to The Return?
Maybe she would have had too much resemblance to where Sarah's at emotionally. Canonically everyone Catherine cares about is gone, and she's become reclusive.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Ha… eh, if Piper Laurie says she’s interested, you bring her back. If they winged the Peaks characters in the town after finding out who says they’re available and put a Jerry Horne running in a field, they could’ve brainstormed for five minutes for their Hollywood royalty. Then again, I was baffled how little Leland was in this, and I was certain this was going to be an eighteen hour Fire Walk With Me Please Make it Stop.

Thank you guys, it’s been awhile since I’ve bitched about this show.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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LateReg wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:13 pm I'm not going to steer the discussion into a "The Return is better with Lynch solely at the helm" because we all know where and why we stand on that, and I get where everyone is coming from. But I wholly agree with Axxon here, and was going to respond before I even saw their post.

Quality judgments aside, and just focusing on directors, if you were to get other directors involved with something as singular as The Return, the thing would fall apart. Yes, there's a lot of great and nuanced TV directors who excel at adapting a tone, but what Lynch is doing with The Return is so singular that it wouldn't work as a cohesive/coherent whole if others took over directing duties. (I know, I know, some might laugh at that because they find The Return to be anything but cohesive/coherent haha.) It's not "regular" TV like Mad Men, or even something very directorial like Mindhunter, where Fincher sets a tone and other directors expertly follow it. I just don't think, in this day and age, The Return could have worked under the old-school television model. At any rate, it would have been an entirely different program. Which is what is being debated and what some might have wanted of course, so in that sense we're back to square one! Just saying that I don't think it would work for something as mood and tone-based as The Return as it was envisioned, scripted and paced.
I agree wth you Reg. I view The Return as a long movie, much like Berlin Alexanderplatz or Jeanne Dielmann or Scenes from a Marriage.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Audrey Horne wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:47 pm Ha… eh, if Piper Laurie says she’s interested, you bring her back. If they winged the Peaks characters in the town after finding out who says they’re available and put a Jerry Horne running in a field, they could’ve brainstormed for five minutes for their Hollywood royalty. Then again, I was baffled how little Leland was in this, and I was certain this was going to be an eighteen hour Fire Walk With Me Please Make it Stop.

Thank you guys, it’s been awhile since I’ve bitched about this show.
Welcome back! Piper Laurie, Joan Chen, Chris Isaak… all could have been amazing.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

Post by Audrey Horne »

Love ya, dugpa.

And if anyone asked why do I even bother to watch this show I hate so much…. I guess because I love it too much. * I have issues. **this is still a lot of fun!
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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dugpa wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:55 pm
Audrey Horne wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:47 pm Ha… eh, if Piper Laurie says she’s interested, you bring her back. If they winged the Peaks characters in the town after finding out who says they’re available and put a Jerry Horne running in a field, they could’ve brainstormed for five minutes for their Hollywood royalty. Then again, I was baffled how little Leland was in this, and I was certain this was going to be an eighteen hour Fire Walk With Me Please Make it Stop.

Thank you guys, it’s been awhile since I’ve bitched about this show.
Welcome back! Piper Laurie, Joan Chen, Chris Isaak… all could have been amazing.
All could have been - and should have been - a part of the show.

Ray Wise only getting two words "FInd Laura" was a disgrace (I was just chatting about this earlier!).
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

Post by mtwentz »

It would have been nice to have more Ray Wise, but honestly...

I initially did not think he would be in it at all, given that his character was dead.

And Sarah more than made up for the lack of Leland IMO.
F*&^ you Gene Kelly
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