World of Blue - Archived Forum 2007-2022

What if the whole middle section of Season 2 had been retconned as a dream, ala an entire season of Dallas? Would have fit in with the soap opera parody or homages and would have been a nice way to dispense with Little Nicky, Evelyn Marsh, Lana and others, plus if played well could have been a funny and tongue-in-cheek nod to Dallas and other soaps. Could also have acted as a way of making more commentary on dreams such as all the dream dialogue in the original series (and later dream references in The Return).

Similarly, it could have been written off as the town entering a state of delusions following the death of Laura Palmer and the revelation of Leland Palmer being the murderer, possessed by Bob, everyone was in some sort of dream or delusion state like Ben Horne in his Civil War fantasy. Would also have fit with the series later revelations about dreams and dreamers. And for those who are quick to dismiss this idea - remember there is an argument to be made that a literal reading of the ending of The Return reveals and dismisses the entire series as a dream (not that I take that literal approach, but there is an argument to be made for it).

So the dream might begin at the end of Episode 16. All of 17 through 22/23 is a dream, perhaps ending when or just before Josie enters the drawer pull/red room.

There would be some good stuff in there you'd lose too - but it's just an interesting thought experiment and you wouldn't necessarily have to lose any of it as it's Twin Peaks, not Dallas, so could have been done in a more avant garde and less literal way while winking back to more conventional soap operas. Maybe you could even argue the mid season 2 stretch is mostly all a dream or a period of shock and transition and delusions for the town following the resolution of the Laura Palmer murder anyway even if it wasn't specified.

Changed the title of this thread (from Random Twin Peaks Thoughts which was too similar to The Random Twin Peaks Thread) and expanded the post a little. Might have also fit in the thread about soap operas/Twin Peaks not a soap opera parody, but could also be an interesting enough discussion to warrant its own little thread especially considering not much is happening right now in TP Land.

Jonah wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:41 am Changed the title of this thread (from Random Twin Peaks Thoughts which was too similar to The Random Twin Peaks Thread) and expanded the post a little. Might have also fit in the thread about soap operas/Twin Peaks not a soap opera parody, but could also be an interesting enough discussion to warrant its own little thread especially considering not much is happening right now in TP Land.

The only reason Dallas used that 'dream' storyline is that it was the most plausible way to bring a beloved character back to life.

To me, I can't see any show using the 'dream' storyline just to write out some hated/bad material. The way you treat regrettable storylines like that is to...just ignore them. No need to say Little Nicky was just a dream...just don't talk about Little Nicky.

In general, because Twin Peaks is so dependent on ambiguity, to come out and state some storyline is a dream, or a delusion or a fantasy (as occurs in several Twilight Zone episodes) would be so anti-Twin Peaks, I can't see it happening.

That's the thing about Lynch's work in particular. There are hints that everything is a dream, or it may be delusion, or it may be a character's fantasy, or it may be an alternate timeline, or an alternate dimension, or it all may be Meta, but Lynch is never going to tell you one way or another.

The closest Twin Peaks has come to that is Audrey in a white gown, shocked face as she looks into a mirror, which leads one to believe everything that went on with Charlie was a delusion.

So, as thought experiment, I don't think writing off a good part of Season 2 as a dream would accomplish anything. The only reasons I can see why Frost/Lynch might want to use that gimmick would be to 'unsolve' Laura Palmer or perhaps say she was never killed in the first place. Which of course they did, sort of, in The Return .

mtwentz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:22 am In general, because Twin Peaks is so dependent on ambiguity, to come out and state some storyline is a dream, or a delusion or a fantasy (as occurs in several Twilight Zone episodes) would be so anti-Twin Peaks, I can't see it happening.

That's the thing about Lynch's work in particular. There are hints that everything is a dream, or it may be delusion, or it may be a character's fantasy, or it may be an alternate timeline, or an alternate dimension, or it all may be Meta, but Lynch is never going to tell you one way or another.

That's what I was going to say. What Jonah suggests is fun as a thought experiment and even makes a lot of sense! But I don't think such a thing would ever be stated outright as it would dismantle the ambiguous entanglement of dreams and reality and other worlds.

They did basically retcon it though, didn’t they? In The Return thing, aside from the mention of Annie in episode, er, part 7, and Lana’s name in Frost’s book, everything is a continuation from episode sixteen… aside from Lynch’s second season finale. I could be wrong, I am really foggy on The Return.

Good point, Audrey, and welcome back again!

They brought back Densie Bryson, that's sort of an acknowledgment past ep 16, though no direct reference to the internal affairs investigation into Cooper storyline.

I was thinking of Denise but couldn't remember offhand for sure if she appeared before Episode 16. (ETA: Nope, first appears in Episode 18. Didn't think she appeared before 16, but wasn't 100 percent until I checked.)

I think Cooper was taken aback that Dennis was Denise, and Denise in the Return implies she knew him as her current self, so I guess that infers that the internal investigation after ep 16 happened.

also, I feel like the Major Briggs presence in the Return is very indicative that ep16 and beyond occurred, he became more inner circle with Cooper as S2 progressed, and less of a patental
figure hanging out in the waiting area.

By the way, I meant to say - I agree with the above posts that stating it blatantly wouldn't work and wouldn't fit the tone of the show, and that it's better just to ignore those storylines, and as LateReg says it was just meant as a fun thought experiment. Besides which, Lynch kept pointing out, Twin Peaks is not really a soap opera parody - but I just thought it might have been a fun thing they could have done ala the commentary on the twins in Invitation to Love when Maddy showed up in the town (and, no disrespect to Lynch, but that all did feel very soap opera parody among other storylines as well - the mill, the double-crossing, etc.). So they could have maybe done it in a subtle way as the townspeople having a series of bizarre dreams or waking up from such dreams, implying some of those episodes might have been dreams but not necessarily outright stating it, and it would have been a fun play on "Dallas". But it probably would have been too on the nose overall.

Speaking of dreams, I just remembered the Wizard of Oz-like promo they shot with Kyle as Cooper waking up in his bed and others around him. (I tried to find a clip on Youtube - there's only one and it cuts off the beginning and is very poor quality so no point in posting it.)

In many ways, I feel like that middle third of season two was treated as such. Evelyn, little Nicky, the civil war, dale’s days as a deputy… all these elements evaporate within an episode or two

That's true. All that stuff does sort of evaporate as you say as if they were dreams.

Interestingly, so does Laura Palmer and the Palmer family in general after Episode 16 - though in a different way. Almost as if the town has woken from a nightmare that's never mentioned again until Episode 29 (apart from one or two little nods here and there). And all the dream dialogue in the original series - from Maddy and others. You could definitely view different swatches of the show as characters trapped in one series of dreams or nightmares (Pilot - 16), then waking up and entering another series (17 - 22), then waking up from those ones and slipping back into another lot (23 - 29), then entering several more in The Return, when the references to dreams and dreaming becomes much more overt.