Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Rather interesting transcription of an article interviewing Mark (albeit filtered through both the interviewer and a lot of editorializing from the Usenet poster): https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep28/1991062 ... pts-147694

He floats the idea of doing a TP movie every few years a la Star Trek if FWWM had been successful.
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Soolsma wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:58 pm I've never noticed this before. Episode 28.
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep28/1991061 ... ___-148626
The sound Ben hears is quite similar in timbre to what we hear in the return, albeit higher in pitch, it's also very different in tone to what the other characters hear when their hands start shaking. Like the OP says, it's indeed highly similar to sounds we hear around supernatural/surreal occurrences throughout the series. I did however, think it was striking that Ben hears it distinctively, in the great Northern. I have a feeling either F or L picked up on that. IIRC Lynch praised Peyton (maybe Engels too) for his idea of the inhabitants becoming physically aware of the nearing events, with the hand shaking and all.

Anyone care to look it up, it's around 25 minutes in.
You mean in terms of the sound corresponding to Ben’s experiences in TR? I’ve made this connection before, and I think there’s something to it. But my pitch is for shit. I’m sure some musicians on here could explain a dozen different ways the two sounds are totally different.
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

I didn’t realize this was a thing until Mark mentioned it in the Bushman book, but there’s a LOT of sniping about Peaks being preempted (or potentially preempted) by Gulf War coverage. It’s sort of funny and an interesting slice of history. Here’s one random example: https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep20/1991011 ... ion-151671
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by Soolsma »

Mr. Reindeer wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:20 pm
Soolsma wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:58 pm I've never noticed this before. Episode 28.
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep28/1991061 ... ___-148626
The sound Ben hears is quite similar in timbre to what we hear in the return, albeit higher in pitch, it's also very different in tone to what the other characters hear when their hands start shaking. Like the OP says, it's indeed highly similar to sounds we hear around supernatural/surreal occurrences throughout the series. I did however, think it was striking that Ben hears it distinctively, in the great Northern. I have a feeling either F or L picked up on that. IIRC Lynch praised Peyton (maybe Engels too) for his idea of the inhabitants becoming physically aware of the nearing events, with the hand shaking and all.

Anyone care to look it up, it's around 25 minutes in.
You mean in terms of the sound corresponding to Ben’s experiences in TR? I’ve made this connection before, and I think there’s something to it. But my pitch is for shit. I’m sure some musicians on here could explain a dozen different ways the two sounds are totally different.
I am a musician. Yes, the sounds are quite different, especially in terms of pitch they vary greatly, the one in ep 28 being way higher in pitch than what we hear in TR. There is however some overlap we can find in it's timbre, in layman's terms we could call this the color of a sound. Imagine a guitar and a piano playing the same note, yet they sound very different, that's what we call timbre. Scientifically, we can explain this as layers of frequencies that are conjoined in mathematical (or in the case of noise: arbitrary) proportion relative to the ground or lowest note(s), plus the dynamics of the volume. So two sounds can vary in their ground tone (pitch), while retaining the same ratio of overtones and dynamics (timbre).
I can't be certain of course, but it is my hunch the similarity is intentional, and also the way Ben experiences it. The variation of it can simply be attributed to this being TR and the former being 90's peaks. As there's many more differences in 'tone' between the two.

[edit: If I'd have to guess, I'd say the sound in TR is made by moving a wet finger around the edges of a wine glass]
Last edited by Soolsma on Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Haha, the debate over the existence of Fumio Yamaguchi. At least one guy saw through it right away, but encountered some pushback:
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep12/1990103 ... ura-212616

I love that, pre-IMDb, people going through their old Martin/Porter guides trying to find him!! I remember those days:
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep12/1990103 ... ura-211404
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Here are some posters proposing a business model to keep TP on the air that presages Video On Demand: https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep27/1991041 ... ost-149588

(Of course, their assumption that every viewer who watches TP for free would be willing to pay even a small amount for episodes is inherently flawed. In reality, probably a much smaller percentage would be willing to do this, causing those who did pay to have much higher theoretical fees. Also, their calculation is only about covering the show’s budget, i.e., breaking even. No entertainment company wants to break even on a show/movie. There’s still the matter of getting advertisers to want to support the show, which is how networks make a PROFIT, and advertisers disfavor shows with not many eyeballs on the screen, which brings us right back to the initial problem. Good effort though, guys.)

BTW, here’s the post they were responding to, where Scott Frost’s relative says each ep cost $1.3 mill: https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep26/1991041 ... ost-149732
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

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I find it cute that posts were referred to as “articles.” Also, crazy that so many people put their phone numbers in their signature lines (these appear to be mostly professional phone numbers...lots of IT people and/or employees at universities). I’m pretty sure that practice had largely died out by the time I found my way onto Usenet in 1997 or so.

As a Simpsons fan, this amused me:
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep01/1990041 ... ces-156681

“I would also agree that this is the best thing I've seen on tv in some time (along with the Simpson's) which means its almost certain to have a short life.” Well, he was right as to Peaks. ;)

A LOT of the earliest speculation (the first couple weeks) revolved around the necklace (makes sense, I guess, as it was the cliffhanger in both the Pilot and E1). Funny to look back on that, given how insignificant it ended up being. Leo seems to be the first heavily favored killer, with a lot of circular debate: “It’s so obvious, look at all the plastic at his house...but then again, it’s TOO obvious...but Lynch is messing with TV conventions, so he WOULD make it the ‘too obvious’ suspect!”

Poor Pete got some suspicion cast on him:
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep02/1990042 ... ous-156518

Will is a suspect!
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep03/1990042 ... 0it-156177

I haven’t read every post, but from skimming the topic titles and looking at the posts I can find that seem to be about killer speculation, this appears to be the first post that mentions Leland at all as a possible suspect (although it’s buried in the midst of a whole bunch of rambling and reads as mostly idle speculation without any solid theorizing or rationale):
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep03/1990042 ... ts)-156230

(Also note that people really seemed to believe Harley Peyton didn’t exist, thinking his name was a joke reference to ‘Peyton Place.’ He finally appeared at some event with Mark, and these rumors died off.)

Although he doesn’t explicitly say it, this seems to be the first poster who articulates solid reasons for suspecting Leland (following Episode 3):
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep03/1990042 ... __)-156244

(Apparently there was also a theory that Cooper wasn’t actually FBI?! This dude speculates Coop is actually DEA, unwittingly predicting TR’s batshit ridiculous Agent Bryson FBI-agent-in-deep-cover-at-the-DEA twist! :lol: )
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by MoondogJR »

Just dropping in to say that I'm absolutely baffled that there already was so much online activity in 1990.
I mean: we bought out first computer in 1994... lol
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

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Mr. Reindeer wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:19 pm Haha, the debate over the existence of Fumio Yamaguchi. At least one guy saw through it right away, but encountered some pushback:
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep12/1990103 ... ura-212616

I love that, pre-IMDb, people going through their old Martin/Porter guides trying to find him!! I remember those days:
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep12/1990103 ... ura-211404
Love this!

"Even the USA Today article hinted broadly at this." Wonder which article they mean?

Edit - A search indicates there was one a couple of weeks after the post and after the reveal, but not sure about an earlier one yet.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by Jonah »

MoondogJR wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:03 am Just dropping in to say that I'm absolutely baffled that there already was so much online activity in 1990.
I mean: we bought out first computer in 1994... lol
I don't think I started using the internet until around 2000 and even then it was internet cafes and college library, don't think I had it at home until much much later, like many years later.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Jonah wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:36 am
Mr. Reindeer wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:19 pm Haha, the debate over the existence of Fumio Yamaguchi. At least one guy saw through it right away, but encountered some pushback:
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep12/1990103 ... ura-212616

I love that, pre-IMDb, people going through their old Martin/Porter guides trying to find him!! I remember those days:
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep12/1990103 ... ura-211404
Love this!

"Even the USA Today article hinted broadly at this." Wonder which article they mean?

Edit - A search indicates there was one a couple of weeks after the post and after the reveal, but not sure about an earlier one yet.
Here’s a couple posts about the article:

https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep11/1990102 ... ara-044149

https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep12/1990102 ... ura-072431

In other news, I recently learned that USA Today still exists and couldn’t believe it. My main memory of it is as the inoffensive/innocuous “news” paper hotels would give out when I was a kid. Who buys that paper in 2021?!
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by Jonah »

Before Google and IMDB:

I'll believe it when someone comes up with verification of Yamaguchi-san's
appearance in another play/movie/TV show. Let me start the ball rolling with
some negative information:

- The TV guide listing definitely links Fumio Yamaguchi with the bearded
Mr. Tojimura.

- He's not in the Martin/Porter guide.

- He's not listed in the Maltin guide under any of Kurosawa's films, nor
TORA(3), nor MERRY XMAS, Mr. LAWRENCE (Just a hunch.) This is obviously
not a very exhaustive search, but I think it makes it unlikely that he is
a Japanese citizen. If he exists, he is more likely to be Japanese-American.
(I also checked the credits of every Japanese film at the local RKO. No
dice.)

- He's not listed in the Encyclopedia Britannica. (No, I wasn't looking for
for the actor--I thought maybe Lynch/Frost would use the name of a famous
or obscure Japanese figure. No listing under Fumio or Yamaguchi)

- Yamaguchi is the name of a province of western Honshu, Japan, as well as
a large city in that province, and a couple of small villages. This, as
far as I can tell, is totally useless information.

- Fumio does not seem to be a geographic name, nor did I run across it
while scanning Japanese movie credits. Can anyone confirm that this
is a Japanese name? It certainly sounds legit (to my Western ear).

This ends my involvment with the mysterious Yamaguchi-san. Perhaps a more
ambitious left-coaster could call SAG, or whatever other actors' unions are
out there, and try to get the name of his agent.

Let's try to stick to facts and not "He is so." "He is not." sorts of
arguments folks. I'm still reeling from the "who was the guy in the
rain?" discussion
.

-

} He's not listed in the Maltin guide under any of Kurosawa's films, nor
} TORA(3), nor MERRY XMAS, Mr. LAWRENCE (Just a hunch.) This is obviously
} not a very exhaustive search, but I think it makes it unlikely that he is
} a Japanese citizen. If he exists, he is more likely to be Japanese-American.
} (I also checked the credits of every Japanese film at the local RKO. No
} dice.)

There's a rather well-known Japanese actor by the name of Yusaku Matsuda.
At least, he's well-known in Japan, in both films and television. Outside
of Japan, he's virtually unknown. Martin & Porter only list one film he's
been in -- a subtitled Japanese import entitled THE FAMILY GAME. M&P do
*not* list him, however, for the role of his that most people will likely
recognize him from: the villain Sato in BLACK RAIN.

The fact that you have not been able to track down a credit for Fumio
Yamaguchi doesn't mean shit. He could be in dozens of Japanese films that
never made it to the US.

} He's not listed in the Encyclopedia Britannica. (No, I wasn't looking for
} for the actor--I thought maybe Lynch/Frost would use the name of a famous
} or obscure Japanese figure. No listing under Fumio or Yamaguchi)

Seems to me that this "evidence" suggests that it's not a made-up name.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by LateReg »

Mr. Reindeer wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:48 pm Overall, it seems the reaction to FWWM in the online fandom at least was refreshingly positive right out of the gate. There were of course some naysayers. Here’s someone who liked the film replying to a pretty shockingly misogynistic take on Sheryl’s performance:
https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/fwwm/199209 ... me-144123


The key sentence for me is, “On the whole, I thought her acting job was pretty wretched, and the only real reccommendation [sic] I could give is, 'go see the movie if you want to see Sheryl Lee's breasts'.”

Wow. Just...wow.
All things considered, divorced from a kind or moral or professional perspective, this seems entirely normal and fair to me. The performance and the movie are both so extreme that reactions like this are expected. Especially if someone thought the movie (and performance) really was that bad - which plenty did - then these words essentially read as shorthand for "this movie does not need to exist and its horrible on top of it with very little to recommend even to die-hard fans so save your money unless you're a perv." If that person was proven "right" in thinking it was that bad, then right now we might all be looking at it merely as Twin Peaks...with nudity! Which is actually its reputation in the snarky circles that still haven't revisited it! Similar to what you're doing here with alttvtwinpeaks, it will be interesting to look back on all the articles about The Return either around its 2014 announcement or just before its 2017 premiere and cite how many still dismissed Fire Walk With Me as either a failure or insignificant. There were A LOT.

Also wanted to say that your USA Today comment was funny...but I do still find reviews from them from time to time! Not sure if it was I who helped you to realize that USA Today still existed or not, but somewhere on these boards c. 2019 I pointed out that their critic Kelly Lawler devised a list of the best TV reboots, ranking Twin Peaks #3 behind Veronica Mars and One Day at a Time. What I pounced on was questioning whether or not that was her actual opinion, or just stuck Twin Peaks on there for the sake of the "integrity" of the article. Reason being, she talked a lot about Twin Peaks before the revival aired, but didn't review it once it did, and didn't include it on her best of 2017 list. Very curious is all.
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

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I guess what bugged me about that comment was a defensive feeling for Sheryl (who obviously is a complete stranger to me, so maybe that’s a little silly...and I’m sure she wasn’t reading a.t.t-p. anyway). But I’ve heard her talk about how much that performance took out of her in many interviews (as I know you have). To dismiss the performance itself is anyone’s prerogative (although I of course think it’s almost objectively moronic to do so because it’s an INCREDIBLE performance on every level), but to add insult to injury by saying the only thing of value Sheryl brought to the table is her tits is pretty shitty. Especially since being naked onscreen is a tremendously difficult and vulnerable thing to do. To simultaneously shit on her artistry and objectify her just strikes me as so icky. But maybe I am being too hard on the guy. I can see your point about what he might have been trying to say. (BTW, I googled that poster just out of curiosity and it seems he passed away just earlier this year, assuming it’s not just someone with the same name. That also made me feel slightly bad for calling him out. It’s weirdly fascinating to wonder about what became of all these people whose random stray thoughts are now immortalized in some small way. The Internet is a strange thing.)

Heh, I have no memory of you posting the USA Today review! I think I was reading some newsfeed while on the subway when a USA Today article popped up and I couldn’t believe it.
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Re: Alt.Tv.TwinPeaks - Twin Peaks Usenet Archive

Post by LateReg »

Mr. Reindeer, you have the advantage of by now knowing exactly what I mean.

To fully engage with that (now deceased - geez) poster's full paragraph containing that quote, which is filled with ostensibly offensive phrasing, I would say that what I personally find most offensive are his last two sentences - which are seemingly the least offensive of the bunch:

"This series was driven and empowered by the very mysterious nature of Laura. They removed that."

Now, again, I understand that point of view because the original series worked like gangbusters because of Laura's mysterious nature. I'm actually very much against the higher-conscience idea that the original series simply treated Laura as an object, mainly IF that idea is portrayed in a strictly negative sense, as some inherent weakness, because it's not. But to not also be aware that Fire Walk With Me is a direct acknowledgment that that is what the series did, and condemn Fire Walk With Me for giving Laura the life that the series robbed her of, is deeply shallow. (Is deeply shallow a thing? It sounds cool, anyway.) As you've pointed out many times, the different iterations of Twin Peaks serve as a reflection/correction/evolution of those that came before it, and Fire Walk With Me is most notable/unprecedented for bringing Laura to life.

Still, I get it, because Fire Walk With Me holds little mystery in the typical/plot sense, and that predestination can be very off-putting until you understand what it is you're seeing, and the level on which you're seeing it. Not sure if I've ever mentioned this, but when I first watched Fire Walk With Me, sometime in the early 2000s, it was the last Lynch film I had seen, and I thought it was his only outright disaster - more so than Dune, which I had always thought was a half-good film. I might have given FWWM 1 star at the time - its bad reputation seemed warranted, the movie seemed like a screaming mess where everything felt off. A few years later I returned to it willingly but without any expectation that it would improve...and it blew my mind - an undeniable 5-star viewing. A couple years later I returned to it again and I found myself right in between those extremes. Less dramatically, I've veered back and forth for years on whether it's a 3 1/2 star movie or a 5-star movie, and it's one of the very few movies that has done that to me; although its an intuitive piece, complications included (but are by no means limited to) analyzing the opening passages, wondering how it might have been different if Cooper were in it more, and, yes, making sense of Lee's extreme emotionality - all that typical stuff. My most recent viewing, last year for the 30th anniversary, was my best ever, so I'm pretty firmly rooted in the masterpiece camp at this point (and the movie is unquestionably complicated and enhanced by The Return), but this is all to say that FWWM is one movie for which I can sympathize with the diverse/adverse reactions.
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