Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

General discussion on Twin Peaks not related to the series, film, books, music, photos, or collectors merchandise.

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Agent Earle
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by Agent Earle »

You sound like you might be a lost cause, Jonah :-) I was gonna suggest some of the titles but after reading your reply to my initial post, I don't really see the point. If I did, the titles Rainwater mentioned would definitely be on the list, along with a number of others. From what you describe, the "gritty", hard-hitting drama based on the human condition (and all that entails) many of the Golden Age TV shows build upon (even outwardly blatant fantasy stuff like GOT owes most of its acclaim to working with this material) is simply not your thing.

I do think one should abandon his preconceptions when trying to give a work of art an honest chance and stick with it for a while before discarding it - of course, if everything about it rubs you the wrong way, and there's other material you're drawn to, life's too short to waste your time with something unappealing to you. For what's worth, I was chronically unable to give a TV product a go for nearly 15 years after the experience that was the original TP - everything seemed like lesser, or even worthless, compared to it (I couldn't stand The X-Files in that time period, so much so that I never truly returned to it). But then in 2006-07, The Sopranos happened for me (I've watched the series in its entirety then for the first time, after 5 years of wrinkling my nose at it for its popularity), and I'm so glad that they did. Nothing has ever been the same in regards to my viewing afterwards - there were so many shows that I discovered and derived intense plesure from, so many unforgettable viewing experiences and though-provoking narratives I wouldn't wanna miss for the life of me. I feel like I would be a much poorer person for not seeing them. Nowadays, it's gotten to a point when I'm almost unable to get into a movie, that's how hooked on serial storytelling I've become (I'm not into binging, mind you, I rather give a show time to work its spell on me, but I do enjoy having it at my disposal to arrange the viewing however I see fit; it usually takes me about 4-5 months to get through 5 12-episode seasons).

P.S.: I see there are a lot of sitcoms on your list. I find that interesting. Sitcoms are what I'd call lesser serial storytelling; I find many of them very interchangeable, very run-of-the-mill. That said, I love Seinfeld as much as the next guy, and there are some (mainly British) humorous productions I've been obssessed with for decades, though they're usually somewhat off the beaten path (I'd mention You Rang, M'Lord? and Mother & Son, the Aussie series, here). The two I've watched recently and find them masterpieces are the Ricky Gervais shows The Office and Extras (I've enjoyed them so much I'm sad they didn't stretch them out for a couple of seasons more).
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by Pinky »

Edge of Darkness is still one of the best things i've ever seen and whilst it's not exactly Lynchian there's plenty of weirdness to chew on. Bob Peck is superb in it. Just like with Peaks, It's hard to keep in mind just how different it felt to everything else back then, it was way ahead of its time. A very driven detective, elements of Cooper and some of Leland, very very good.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by Jonah »

Agent Earle wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:11 am You sound like you might be a lost cause, Jonah :-) I was gonna suggest some of the titles but after reading your reply to my initial post, I don't really see the point. If I did, the titles Rainwater mentioned would definitely be on the list, along with a number of others. From what you describe, the "gritty", hard-hitting drama based on the human condition (and all that entails) many of the Golden Age TV shows build upon (even outwardly blatant fantasy stuff like GOT owes most of its acclaim to working with this material) is simply not your thing.

I do think one should abandon his preconceptions when trying to give a work of art an honest chance and stick with it for a while before discarding it - of course, if everything about it rubs you the wrong way, and there's other material you're drawn to, life's too short to waste your time with something unappealing to you. For what's worth, I was chronically unable to give a TV product a go for nearly 15 years after the experience that was the original TP - everything seemed like lesser, or even worthless, compared to it (I couldn't stand The X-Files in that time period, so much so that I never truly returned to it). But then in 2006-07, The Sopranos happened for me (I've watched the series in its entirety then for the first time, after 5 years of wrinkling my nose at it for its popularity), and I'm so glad that they did. Nothing has ever been the same in regards to my viewing afterwards - there were so many shows that I discovered and derived intense plesure from, so many unforgettable viewing experiences and though-provoking narratives I wouldn't wanna miss for the life of me. I feel like I would be a much poorer person for not seeing them. Nowadays, it's gotten to a point when I'm almost unable to get into a movie, that's how hooked on serial storytelling I've become (I'm not into binging, mind you, I rather give a show time to work its spell on me, but I do enjoy having it at my disposal to arrange the viewing however I see fit; it usually takes me about 4-5 months to get through 5 12-episode seasons).

P.S.: I see there are a lot of sitcoms on your list. I find that interesting. Sitcoms are what I'd call lesser serial storytelling; I find many of them very interchangeable, very run-of-the-mill. That said, I love Seinfeld as much as the next guy, and there are some (mainly British) humorous productions I've been obssessed with for decades, though they're usually somewhat off the beaten path (I'd mention You Rang, M'Lord? and Mother & Son, the Aussie series, here). The two I've watched recently and find them masterpieces are the Ricky Gervais shows The Office and Extras (I've enjoyed them so much I'm sad they didn't stretch them out for a couple of seasons more).
I don't like modern sitcoms at all, though. Sweet spot is 80's - 90's (some 70's). (Edit - And yet I've never gotten into On the Air! lol) I suppose I just grew up watching them and I find them comforting. I think Frasier is very smart and well written for the most part. Wings isn't as good as Frasier but I think it's underrated and charming. Even Ellen was kind of groundbreaking for its time, as was The Golden Girls. I definitely think they're among the best of their kind, and I enjoy farce episodes the most. So of course Fawlty Towers is amazing. Outside of those few sitcoms, I'm not really a huge comedy fan - I don't really like comedy movies, for example. I also struggle more with modern or single-camera comedy - I liked and appreciated The Office, and Parks and Rec which I discovered later, but I struggled a bit more with them. And yet whenever I try to watch a new sitcom that goes back to the style of the older ones, I just don't think they work, and most of them are quite poor.

I might try one of those other shows sometime - but I feel I just missed the boat on them, the older I get, the more I like to just unwind with escapism or at least shows that explore the human condition in a more entertaining way. Gritty (for want of a better word) stuff definitely puts me off. I unfortunately can and have - like most people - explored sorrow, pain, tragedy and loss, and the human condition in everyday life. Having a show that probes too deeply into those things just puts me off. That's not to say I'm into dumbed down popcorn entertainment either, though I think there's a place for that stuff. I guess I'm somewhere in between.

My tastes may change again in time and my tastes in tv shows vs movies and novels is quite different, though there's some overlap. I'd probably watch a lot of those shows if they were movies and there was a long period in my 20's where I was much more into darker, grittier movies (still am to some extent at times), though was never really into those type of storylines as long-running shows, and as I've gotten older I'm going back to stuff I liked more when I was a child or teenager.

Having said that, I'm open to anything if it happens to capture my interest, so I'll keep some of those shows in mind and I have a few upcoming ones I want to see. I do like intelligent, well-written shows, just nothing too dark or heavy (there are exceptions).

Edit - I'm having problems with the quote feature.
Last edited by Jonah on Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:12 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by Jonah »

Surprised more people aren't mentioning Riget (unless they are and I just need to go back through every page). It's been a long time since I've seen it but I remember it being very dark and strange, with odd light moments. There's also a lot of Scandinavian shows I've heard of that sound interesting and TP-like. But I've never really found anything that's quite like Twin Peaks.

-
Pinky wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:44 am Edge of Darkness is still one of the best things i've ever seen and whilst it's not exactly Lynchian there's plenty of weirdness to chew on. Bob Peck is superb in it. Just like with Peaks, It's hard to keep in mind just how different it felt to everything else back then, it was way ahead of its time. A very driven detective, elements of Cooper and some of Leland, very very good.
Sounds interesting, might check it out. (A quick search shows that it's an 80's British show, later adapted into an American movie.)

Edit - making new post

Edit - error/quoting.
Last edited by Jonah on Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:29 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Pinky
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by Pinky »

Don't let the US remake put you off, there's nothing in common with the UK series beyond character names and the broadest outline of the plot. Odd, considering it's the same director! You could say the original has Lynchian aspects inasmuch as the writer was constantly being reined in from his more surreal vision but they didn't do all that good of a job stopping him.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by Jonah »

Pinky wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:23 am Don't let the US remake put you off, there's nothing in common with the UK series beyond character names and the broadest outline of the plot. Odd, considering it's the same director! You could say the original has Lynchian aspects inasmuch as the writer was constantly being reined in from his more surreal vision but they didn't do all that good of a job stopping him.
OK. I never saw the movie anyway - I remember at the time thinking it seemed a bit like Gibson's earlier movie Ransom when it came out, just a darker version.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by Jonah »

Has anyone here seen Enlightened with Laura Dern?

I finally got around to watching that recently enough (within the last year or 2) and was disappointed it ended so abruptly. Interestingly, I read that the creator Mike White said something like he wouldn't resurrect/revive the show now even if he had the chance.

“I actually feel like we could do that maybe,” says White, temporarily sending my hopes soaring before dashing them. “But I don’t know. There was a lot of pain with the ending. It’s like going into an old relationship where you’re like… let’s do something new. I may do something and work with HBO again, but I don’t know about another season of Enlightened.” (https://ew.com/tv/2018/10/16/mike-white ... -survivor/)

I wonder if Lynch/Frost felt that way for a long time after TP was cancelled - and after FWWM (and the possibility of more movies didn't emerge) - and if they had the opportunity to revive the show sooner, but felt too much pain about the way it ended and didn't until the 25 years later thing seemed like a good opportunity.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by Agent Earle »

Jonah wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:50 am Surprised more people aren't mentioning Riget (unless they are and I just need to go back through every page). It's been a long time since I've seen it but I remember it being very dark and strange, with odd light moments. There's also a lot of Scandinavian shows I've heard of that sound interesting and TP-like. But I've never really found anything that's quite like Twin Peaks.
RIget is an absolute masterpiece in every sense of the word! The be-all and end-all of medical soaps yet so, so much better than any of them. Man, whatta world and characters! Can't wait for Season 3 von Trier announced recently!
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

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Agent Earle, it is very exciting to hear such raves about Riget, because I am planning to see it this spring, and have become a Lars von Trier admirerer recently.

I am generally not a TV person - I would call myself a film enthusiast instead - so I haven't seen that many shows, but from what I can gather, your taste and feelings about what makes a TV show appealing are more or less how I feel too.

My top five TV shows would be (in exact order):

1. Twin Peaks - My favorite TV series of all time, and only the second favorite work of art in general, after Marcel Proust's À la recherche du temps perdu.

2. BoJack Horseman, obviously - I cannot even begin explaining how great this is; such a clever and rich comedy, while at the same time so deep with human pyschology, emotions, and "condition" in general. I would strongly recommend it to everyone; just give the first season a try - if you like it, you will be hooked, and moved by it forever. (It actually made me cry at one point, which hardly anything can accomplish.)

3. True Detective Season 1

4. Breaking Bad

5. The Sopranos - I am very much into the gangster genre, I watch everything from Robinson / Cagney / Bogart films of the 1930's to The Irishman, and I would say that only The Godfather trilogy is superior to this. Even the Scorsese gangster films don't have this scale.

I also like Fargo - all seasons - The Mandalorian, Dark, and a few series I have watched A LOT of, but still not in their entirety: South Park, Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Friends, and Northern Exposure.

My main to-do list is this (but there are others I plan to watch too): Riget, On the Air, Carnivàle, Better Call Saul, The Wire (and other things David Simon did), Boardwalk Empire, Dekalog, Black Books, Out 1, Monty Python's Flying Circus, and Rick and Morty. There are also some Croatian series that interest me (I need to learn more of my local pop culture; I'm very poor in this regard).

I believe that it's always good the give something an opportunity, and to watch at least one season of it before deciding to continue or not. I almost stopped after the first three episodes of BoJack Horseman, thinking how it is too fast, too popular culture-centric, etc., and how I should watch something like Tarkovsky instead - what a mistake that would have been! (I just watched BoJack first, and then the complete Tarkovsky afterwards - there's usually time for everything.)

Finally, I have to admit that even though I always liked Star Trek, I never got that much into it. Then recently, when my girlfriend really wanted to start watching The Next Generation together, I thought I should stop being a jerk who always tries to force the things he wants to watch, and to indulge her wishes instead. Needles to say, I absolutely loved it, and now plan to watch all of the Star Trek there is, and will be.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by JackwithOneEye »

Riget/Kingdom - I havent watched it since 1999 or 2000. I remember the Udo Kier monster baby being rather terrifying, the down syndrome narrators were great, and some stuff with the Swedish surgeon with a huge ego was quite funny. I remember him shouting 'Danish scum' a lot, but the actual plot, I have completely forgotten. I remember it had a weird muddy sepia tone. I think it was shot in 16mm, dunno if it ever got a HD release ?

Edge of Darkness - it was largely sortof Hitchockian conspiracy stuff as I recall, but the ghostly apparition of the guy's daughter I remember being quite eerie and haunting. It was a solid show. I learned some things about uranium.

Star Trek Next Gen - I watched the first season when it was new in 1987 and thought it was schlocky bad tv, with bad scripts, bad sets, the one where Will Wheaton gets the death penalty for breaking some glass had some of the worst costume design I ever saw on TV. I bailed on watching the rest of the show in it's original run. years later I saw some of the Borg ones and it was a big improvement over the first season, I still meaning to go back and watch all the seasons.

there's so much Trek out there, hard to keep up with it all. I have watched the Bakula show Enterprise on netflix, has some good ones and bad ones. and i have watched the first four or so seasons of Deep Space Nine, some interesting story arcs, and a lot of filler episodes.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by eyeboogers »

Stavrogyn, wait a few more months before watching "Riget". They are currently remastering the show from the original negative, and the new edition is sure to come out before season 3 airs next year.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by Agent Earle »

@ Stavrogyn

Just to be clear, I am not a von Trier admirerer; besides Riget, the only other thing of his I saw was Melancholia - I liked it quite a bit (the ending truly made that movie for me), though I gather it's one of his lesser works, at least going from general consideration. I must change this and arrange a "von Trier" movie month for myself soon :)

Out of your top 5 list, I haven't seen True Detective and BoJack Horseman - I've got the latter near the top of my things-to-watch list, after hearing raving review of it from my friend. I can't wait to delve into it! I keep hearing it's a bit like Mad Men (which I also still haven't seen) in animated form. There are other things you mention which I've also heard a lot of good things about and am eager to watch them (I'm a bit wary of sci-fi-tinged stuff, as I'm normally not that big a fan of sci-fi, but I realize this is down to my prejudices; I should try and approach the stuff like Lost, Westworld, Battlestar Galactica and Mr. Robot in a more open-minded way).

I strongly encourage you to see Boardwalk Empire and ALL of David Simon's opus ASAP - Boardwalk is, in my view, almost as good as The Sopranos and, I think, the best thing Steve Buscemi's ever done (not to take anything away from other actors who are all wonderful); and you just can't beat that show when it comes to intricate plotting, sifting through human emotions, and sheer world-building specatacle of it all; too bad it tends to get a bit overlooked in the modern TV landscape, people often seem to consider it as sub-Sopranos rip-off (which is true in the sense that without a character like Tony Soprano, there'd be no place for a character like Nucky Thompson as the main star of the multi-season TV drama, but Boardwalk should be judged on its own merits, by all means). Whereas Simon needs no introduction, I think - he's the single most brilliant explorer of the human condition on TV (I'm currently taking my time through Treme and savouring every second of it, after being blown away by The Deuce, but I've already written about it on this board).

As for Croatian series, I've been hearing intriguing things about "Novine"/The Paper - have you seen that? And I'm currently watching the Serbian mini-series "Porodica"/The Family, about the fall of Slobodan Milosevic, and I'd definitely recommend that to anyone with a passing interest in The Balkans politics and general state of affairs.

P.S.: I'm glad I'm seeing Northern Exposure still being mentioned from time to time. That show will always occupy a special place in my heart, even if it must be at least two decades since I saw an episode of it in its entirety - what a sweet, magical work of art that was...
Last edited by Agent Earle on Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by LateReg »

@Agent Earle

I'm enjoying everything you're writing and pushing here. All of this stuff should be watched for the sake of the form, and it should all be given proper time to analyze and be viewed on its own terms - as a work of longform. But one thing I can add to...

Re: Melancholia, I don't think that is correct. In a "general" sense it's actually von Trier’s most widely admired work. Yes, many von Trier films are very passionately supported and viewed as masterpieces and a few may be "better" than Melancholia, but most of them - including Dogville and Dancer in the Dark - are far more divisive from the start. Melancholia is just about his only film that received near-unanimous acclaim - possibly more so, initially, than even Breaking the Waves - and it placed highly on both year-end and decade-end lists. If anything, I'd say it's not lesser, but more accessible. And it's bookended by an opening and closing that rank among the greatest cinema ever.

And Jonah, Enlightened is one of the best modern series, for sure. It's a shame it was cancelled but White and Dern found a proper ending that I'm more than satisfied with. I remarked recently on it that it's lame that more people aren't talking about it right now, since it taps into a lot of what is going on in the world/States over the past few years...stuff that's always been going on, but has really dominated cultural concerns of late. Enlightened is refreshing because it predates all the trendy coverage of such topics and has a real wild, irreverent streak and dares to present its lead (Dern) as deeply flawed, searching for answers rather than having them.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by Agent Earle »

LateReg wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:11 pm
Re: Melancholia, I don't think that is correct. In a "general" sense it's actually von Trier’s most widely admired work. Yes, many von Trier films are very passionately supported and viewed as masterpieces and a few may be "better" than Melancholia, but most of them - including Dogville and Dancer in the Dark - are far more divisive from the start. Melancholia is just about his only film that received near-unanimous acclaim - possibly more so, initially, than even Breaking the Waves - and it placed highly on both year-end and decade-end lists. If anything, I'd say it's not lesser, but more accessible. And it's bookended by an opening and closing that rank among the greatest cinema ever.
Wow, I guess I had that all wrong! Thanks for clarification.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 10 TV shows

Post by Jonah »

Agent Earle wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:23 pm
Out of your top 5 list, I haven't seen True Detective and BoJack Horseman - I've got the latter near the top of my things-to-watch list
Hey, even I've seen that! :P Although admittedly, it took me awhile too - and I haven't bothered with the other seasons.
LateReg wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:11 pm White and Dern found a proper ending that I'm more than satisfied with.
Do you mean the ending to Season 2? I remember finding it abrupt, but maybe I need to read the recap and remind myself.
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