Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

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DougieJones
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by DougieJones »

I’m holding out for hope that Coop will save the day at the very end. I always think about how Laura was deprived of her peace by the end and it hurts, just beautifully done by Lynch and Frost.
"Jade give two rides."
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JackwithOneEye
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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I don't think I like Cooper having a happy ending. the hard reality of death is something we cant avoid, cant go back and fix, and nothing he can do can bring Laura back,
has more honesty to it.

(and maybe he just gave the best parts of himself to the new Dougie to be a good husband/father. )
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DougieJones
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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JackwithOneEye wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:15 am I don't think I like Cooper having a happy ending. the hard reality of death is something we cant avoid, cant go back and fix, and nothing he can do can bring Laura back,
has more honesty to it.

(and maybe he just gave the best parts of himself to the new Dougie to be a good husband/father. )
But he does bring Laura back which is why I think it hurts for me. He brings her back and then both of them are resigned to the unknown. It’s the exact opposite of FWWM where both Laura and Coop are welcomed by the Angel. Instead it’s both of them being welcomed into the darkness.
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JackwithOneEye
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by JackwithOneEye »

I like the p 18 ending. it works fine for me as just sort of a fantasy as a way to cheat death but all we really have is here and now, and the rest is non existence.
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DougieJones
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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I think it’s an amazing ending that definitely leaves room for interpretation and dialogue. I agree that there is an element of you can’t cheat death and it’s really done so well.

A side note for Carrie Page, Sarah Palmer calling out “Laura” at the end just throws a wrench into so many things.
"Jade give two rides."
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Jonah
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Jack, about the non-existence thing - I noticed you saying something similar regarding life and death in another thread recently as well regarding the show (but I've only been dipping in and out so never got to reply) and it confuses me. It seems odd considering this is in the context of discussing Twin Peaks, a show where spiritual realms are a big part of its core storyline and mythology. It's one show where I definitely think the possibility of more after death is not only hinted at, but actually shown - the red room being a spiritual realm, the black lodge, the white lodge, the angel etc. While non-existence is mentioned once in The Return, I can't see it being a part of the overall text of the show, including both incarnations and the movie which very specifically keep pointing to spiritual realms. Even the Fireman's place in The Return, the glowing orb, the Log Lady mentioning death being change (not to mention Hawk and Coop discussing the soul in the original series, "the dweller on the threshold", etc.). I don't want to open a discussion on personal beliefs regarding that kind of thing, I just am keeping this discussion in the context of the show itself, which very clearly indicates more afterwards.

I agree with what you're saying, Dougie, about the ending of FWWM - It does seem sad that the ending to The Return seems to be the polar opposite of that. Then again, there's nothing saying for sure that the ending comes after that ending, as I've pointed out before - it's quite possibly not linear at all. And there's nothing to tell us what happens after Carrie screams and "wakes up". I think we all assume she and RIchard are stranded there (if I was writing a Season 4, I'd probably even pick back up there), but they're not necessarily - they could wake up, either literally or metaphorically/metaphysically speaking! That ending has a wide variety of possible interpretations, to simply being a dream of teenage Laura's, to the universe imploding, to waking up out of one reality or dream and into another, plus many more.
Last edited by Jonah on Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:14 am, edited 8 times in total.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Jonah
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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DougieJones wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:11 am Also good luck with the writing Jonah!
Thanks, I need it! First day back I only got a couple of hundred words and a couple of hundred a week or two ago as well, and just couldn't get back into it at all. Then the second day I got 5,000 words and while it's been going down since, I'm still managing between 3,500 and 2,500, except today - but I'm aiming to get back to it now. It's quite ropey as I've been away from it so long, but flowing nicely apart from that. Hopefully I'll stick with it as I've been so focused on the fantasy series on my front burner I've been neglecting the three or four unfinished novels on the back one! (Don't want to veer the thread off away from Twin Peaks - so that's all I'll say about my writing here.)
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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boske
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by boske »

There is still a possibility for a powerful ending, I had been thinking about it a few months ago actually, how it could be molded, it is definitely possible. Pure love can overcome death, and there is something that can yet be told there I think.
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Jonah
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Yes, I could see a love conquers death theme coming into play. But overall I just don't see death as being non-existence in any version of the show whether love ovecomes it or not - the characters seem to keep going on (versions of them at any rate) in different realms. Even characters played by deceased actors were brought back - Major Briggs, Bob came back as an orb, etc. But beyond that, more realms beyond the material one has always been a major part of the show. That's the whole purpose of the lodge storylines, the soul. Even Cooper's soul fracturing into different identities in The Return.

I just see nothing in the text that really treats death as non-existence. There's even that scene of the vapour or essence (presumably energy or the soul) leaving the little kid in The Return which is definitely not subtle in terms of telling us where the show itself stands on that kind of thing. The whole series is full of references to - and scenes showing - more after the mortal coil (apart from maybe the doppleganger screeching "non-existent" I think once). There definitely might be parts of the story where some characters could stop existing once they have died or are defeated, but even then I don't think it feels definitive, nor do I necessarily read the ending of Part 18 with the lights going out as being indicative of non-existence. Even if it was, there's still just way too many other references to spiritual realms and souls and all sorts of stuff like that, for a material view to ever really come into it, unless in terms of its examination of grief in the first season - but even then, that felt very much confined to just the earthly realm of the show, and the show has seemed more interested in expanding beyond that ever since Episode 2 right up to The Fireman's place in the revival (and whatever version of the town they were in at the end).
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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boske
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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There is an interesting parallel in S3 when Gordon Cole exclaims in the morgue "This is the waiting room!". That was quite a hint from Lynch (and Frost). If we start off from that premise, Cooper had ventured into the realm of the dead. Up until that point (S2, episode 29), it was not really clear whether the Red Room was a psychological construct (there was a discussion on that matter in the "disappointed thread") or an objective reality.

Part 18 is still such a mystery. I know people are murmuring and clamouring for more, I'd certainly welcome it, but there is so much in the Return that remains mysterious, especially part 18 (at least to me). Even the ending of Ep. 29 is still uncharted, there are things in it that are still waiting to be discovered, it is packed with symbolism. Take also FWWM for example, why is Leland levitated and slanted in a particular direction and at a certain angle? Was that done on a whim? I don't think so. I must have seen the FWWM Buenos Aires scene so many of times, until I suddenly noticed that Jeffries likely meets his own shadow, as he leaves the lobby and heads for his room. So until we hear some news, it pays off to rewatch with attention.
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madeleineferguson
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by madeleineferguson »

I always thought that Leland was levitating at that position to symbolize Laura’s body floating in the water.

I agree about Part 18. To me, it felt more like a beginning than an ending. I sometimes watch it as a stand alone episode, I think it’s probably my favorite Part of the Return.
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DougieJones
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Jonah wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:01 am
DougieJones wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:11 am Also good luck with the writing Jonah!
Thanks, I need it! First day back I only got a couple of hundred words and a couple of hundred a week or two ago as well, and just couldn't get back into it at all. Then the second day I got 5,000 words and while it's been going down since, I'm still managing between 3,500 and 2,500, except today - but I'm aiming to get back to it now. It's quite ropey as I've been away from it so long, but flowing nicely apart from that. Hopefully I'll stick with it as I've been so focused on the fantasy series on my front burner I've been neglecting the three or four unfinished novels on the back one! (Don't want to veer the thread off away from Twin Peaks - so that's all I'll say about my writing here.)
Hope everything goes well! It’s an accomplishment just to sit down and actually start writing so my hat goes off to you! I hope to read some of your work one day
"Jade give two rides."
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DougieJones
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Also the final episode of Season 2 is Beyond Life and Death so there is definitely moments sprinkled in throughout the entirety of the show that there is a sort of afterlife. The line “I’m dead yet I live” by Laura is very symbolic of that. And also the theme of love triumphing is very prevalent whether it’s through defeating BOB, Norma and Ed, etc. that’s why to me I really hold on to hope that we will eventually see Coop saving the day some day. I don’t think Part 18 is the definitive ending especially considering the ending of FWWM, it definitely felt like the first step to something else. If they were to do a S4 I would think it would pick up with Richard and Carrie on that street as well.

To add though I always felt “I’m dead yet I live” could be interpreted as Coop refusing to let the past die. That he won’t move on and refuses to. He has to fix everything but there’s somethings that can’t be fixed. However again that all gets thrown out when you see Carrie Page being called out to her by her mother.
"Jade give two rides."
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boske
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Laura is physically dead, and yet her spirit is not, at least that is what I got out of that statement. Part 18 is in a league of its own. As I mentioned several pages back, the car that Cooper and Diane are in when they travel down to Texas (supposedly), is an older model (from 50s or 60s), Richard wakes up in "present" time. Now is his real name Richard, or is it still Cooper? We do not really know, he looks like an agent, but is he still with the FBI? There is something really peculiar about that night ride back too. Yes, there is a car or two on the road, but the place is totally empty, there is no one on the streets, everything is closed, something is off there, everybody seems to be asleep.
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Jonah
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by Jonah »

Great point about the Laura quote - "I'm dead yet I live " - and it could sum up many themes of the show itself, and the legacy of the Laura Palmer character. Even beyond the show, the character will continue to live on - and if the show returns, she will too, even if that means as Carrie Page and as Laura.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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