Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep23/1991021 ... ion-151140

Episode 22 was #85 out of 89 shows in the Nielsens. That’s pretty awful. And yes, the network sabotaged the show with a Saturday night slot. But it’s tough to imagine any network renewing a show with those numbers.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Oops. I meant the ratings didn't really plummet hugely immediately after the murderer was revealed (the show was getting 11-12 million just before the reveal, went up to 17 for the reveal, then back down to 11-12, so they did drop but they were still okay to solid-ish during half of the weak stretch (up until Episode 20 or so, which got 10 million), then they started going back up a bit after the show come back, then down a bit, then up a good bit for the finale. I don't know what the China Beach ratings were or other shows on the network at the time, but I wonder if any of them had even worst ratings or nearly as low ratings and were pre-empted due to the Gulf War too, yet were still renewed? I know CB was critically acclaimed and won a lot of awards, but did ABC renew other shows from that timeframe with bad ratings and that weren't a success with the critics and the award circuit? If so, then what Frost said would be true.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Jonah, I appreciate your perspective and I see your reasoning, but I don't know how true it even is that the first couple episodes of Season 2 got good reviews. From what I've recently seen across vintage reviews they were very mixed. That stuff with the waiter and the giant really took its toll right off the bat, and even the now-classic killer reveal episode was divisive. Perhaps some push could have been made based on awards momentum in early 1991, but I don't think ABC would have looked at any Globes wins as being for the second season, and so they were probably reluctant to even try. I'm sure they were uncomfortable with it in the first place!

Reindeer or Jonah, what exactly were the ratings of the episodes directly pre- and post-killer reveal, and how did they compare to the first season?
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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LateReg wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:52 am
Reindeer or Jonah, what exactly were the ratings of the episodes directly pre- and post-killer reveal, and how did they compare to the first season?
Just edited my post above to include some ratings.

The pilot got 34 million, which was huge. The rest of Season 1 got very high ratings too: 23, 19, 16, 17, 15, finishing on 18 million for the Season 1 finale.

19 million tuned in for the Season 2 premiere (presumably expecting the murder to be solved), then it dropped a good bit for the next few episodes (but was still decent) to 14, 13, 12. 17 tuned in for the reveal (Episode 14), presumably because ABC marketed it as such, then it was down to 13 for the next episode, then stayed at roughly 11-12 for the next few, and was at 10 by Episode 20.

It started to drop a lot more then by the end of the weak stretch, but only a little more, in the high 8's and 9's. 23 may have ranked 85 out of 89 shows, but it still got 8.2 million. It was in the high 7's when it returned six weeks later, then climbed back to high 9's, almost 10 million, stayed in the 9's for another episode, then dropped to 7's for the last two before it was cancelled, one 7.9 and the lowest being 7.4

Finally, the finale (28 and 29) was aired as one two-parter in July, and attracted 10 million, which I think is kinda high considering it was the height of summer and the murderer had been revealed - so something made them tune in. Was ABC promoting it still? Was it promoted as the final episode? If so, what answers were the audience expecting I wonder!

Full list of episodes and US ratings here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_T ... s_episodes
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Jonah, China Beach was also cancelled in 1991 along with its fellow Saturday night outcast TP. Here’s an interesting article: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

“ABC’s own situation is in such flux. No dramatic shows are doing well right now, especially since the war’s broken out.”
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Also, worth mentioning that, US ratings and award shows aside, the show was a massive international hit in Europe, Japan, Australia, all over. That must have been making them money? Plus, overall there was enough momentum to get FWWM made. I think that money came from a studio in Europe too?

I just feel ABC could have steered it back into a hit without too much effort or at least tried. I think there was still audience interest, another big mystery and some promotion, and those numbers could easily have climbed back up, or stayed at a solid 10-12 or even 15 a week. It was never going to be a juggernaut again but I think it could have done reasonably well.
Mr. Reindeer wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:59 am Jonah, China Beach was also cancelled in 1991 along with its fellow Saturday night outcast TP. Here’s an interesting article: https://alttvtwinpeaks.com/ep23/1991021 ... ion-151140

“ABC’s own situation is in such flux. No dramatic shows are doing well right now, especially since the war’s broken out.”
Oh, that's right. I forgot CB ended in 1991 - I meant they had kept it going for four seasons before that despite poor ratings.
I wonder if they renewed any other shows that were doing badly or what else they cancelled in 1991.

Maybe some of it was down to the state they were in. I still think they pulled the gun too quickly, I think even Iger said that. Had FWWM been a hit, no doubt they might have tried to bring it back again. Still wonder why Bravo didn't!

Another thing worth mentioning - it being marketed as a murder mystery probably did the show a lot of harm. They probably needed to keep working in new murder mysteries to keep themselves afloat, something I think they could have done and still kept the soap opera fun and lodges stuff intact. But audiences are fickle - the mass audiences wanted that answer. I still maintain a good chunk of people were still sticking around though (averaging 7- 10 million in the US, who knows how many internationally - a lot) no matter what the show did. That was enough to build off to relaunch a new season.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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ABC Opts for Lighter Shows in Fall Lineup : Television: ‘thirtysomething,’ ‘China Beach’ are casualties of network wars as ABC tries to overtake top-ranked NBC.

By RICK DU BROW

ABC took on a new look Tuesday, bouncing the honored series “thirtysomething” and “China Beach” from its fall schedule as it brought on eight new shows in its bid to overtake top-ranked NBC in the ratings race.

Just as the cancellation of ABC’s low-rated “Twin Peaks” became obvious months ago, the likelihood of the Emmy Award-winning “thirtysomething” and “China Beach” returning in the fall also had been strongly in doubt, despite publicity campaigns by the series and their viewers.

Epitomizing its new, lighter tone--as opposed to its past image of encouraging experimentation--ABC is bringing on four new comedies, three dramas and a half-hour reality show, “FBI: The Untold Stories.” The network also renewed another reality show that debuted May 2, “American Detective.”

In a mild surprise, Steven Bochco’s new drama series, “Civil Wars,” with Mariel Hemingway and Peter Onorati as divorce lawyers, failed to make the fall lineup. ABC said that the show will air later in the season, along with another Bochco series, “Capitol Critters,” an animated show about animals in the White House basement.

ABC shows of the past season that are absent from the fall lineup include “Married People,” “Cop Rock,” “Going Places,” “Under Cover,” “Davis Rules,” “Eddie Dodd,” “STAT,” “My Life and Times,” “Equal Justice,” “Father Dowling Mysteries” and “Head of the Class.”

The Jamie Lee Curtis-Richard Lewis sitcom “Anything but Love” won renewal as part of an all-comedy Wednesday ABC lineup. Starting the night off will be “Dinosaurs,” which premiered April 26.

And although James Earl Jones’ drama “Gabriel’s Fire"--in which he played a private investigator--is gone, it will be back in a new form with a new title. The revised show is called “Bird and Katt,” with Jones’ investigator joining forces with a retired police officer played by Richard Crenna.

ABC has enlisted such stars as Patrick Duffy, Suzanne Somers, Marsha Mason and Teri Garr to enliven its new comedies as the network seemingly emphasizes a more conservative, comfortable approach in what are trying financial times for the Big Three networks.

Its new comedies are:

* “Grownups,” with Mason starring in a tale of the “fortunes and struggles of three sisters.” The show was developed by producer-director-writer Jim Brooks (“The Simpsons,” “The Mary Tyler Moore Show”) in the first of a three-series deal he has with the network..

* “Good and Evil,” revolving around “the antics of two sisters--one evil, the other good.” The stars are Garr and Margaret Whitton. And the show comes from another top TV creator, Susan Harris (“Soap,” “The Golden Girls,” “Empty Nest”).

* “Step by Step,” with Duffy (of “Dallas” and Somers (of “Three’s Company”) as “a divorced man and a widowed mom (each with three kids), whose whirlwind romance ends in marriage and instant household chaos.” It comes from yet another top TV production firm, Miller-Boyett, which turns out such ABC hits as “Full House,” “Family Matters” and “Perfect Strangers.”

* “Home Improvement,” in which comedian Tim Allen plays “the host of a home improvement TV show, who’s all thumbs around his own house.”

In addition to “Bird and Katt,” ABC’s new dramas are:

* “Homefront,” a drama “set in 1945 that follows the lives and loves of returning GIs (from World War II) and the people they left behind in a dramatically changing America.” The cast includes David Newman, Kyle Chandler, Jessica Steen and Wendy Phillips.

* “The Commish,” about “an ordinary-appearing” big-city police chief (Michael Chiklis) “whose unorthodox style . . . endears him to his men and his community.” Theresa Saldana co-stars as his wife.

While dropping “thirtysomething” and “China Beach” from the fall lineup, ABC is retaining the quality drama “Life Goes On,” which deals with a family that has a son with Down’s syndrome. “Life Goes On” will continue to lead off ABC’s Sunday lineup, where it has increased the network’s audience against CBS’ “60 Minutes.”

“Full House,” which has turned into a ratings powerhouse on Fridays, will be switched to lead off Tuesdays, where it will be followed by “Home Improvement,” “Roseanne,” “Coach” and “Homefront” (in the former “thirtysomething” slot).

ABC will try to seize control of Wednesdays--which is up for grabs in the Big Three competition--with six consecutive comedies: “Dinosaurs,” “The Wonder Years,” “Doogie Howser, M.D.,” “Anything but Love,” “Grownups” and “Good and Evil.”

On Thursdays, ABC will try to cash in on the hot reality trend by using two of its three prime-time hours for fact-based shows. They are “FBI: The Untold Stories,” “American Detective” and “PrimeTime Live.”

The network will try to hold on to its comedy stranglehold of Fridays by moving “Family Matters” into the leadoff spot, followed by “Step by Step,” “Perfect Strangers” and “Baby Talk.”

And two of the network’s longest-running sitcoms, “Who’s the Boss?” and “Growing Pains,” have been paired and switched to open Saturdays as ABC tries to make inroads on that night.

Other shows planned by ABC for later in the 1991-92 season include:

* “Immediate Family,” a comedy with Billy Connolly (“Head of the Class”) as a Scottish immigrant who enters into a marriage of convenience with a divorced mother of three to avoid deportation.

* “Room for Two,” a comedy with Linda Lavin (“Alice”) as a morning TV personality who is often in conflict with her daughter--the producer.

* “Saturdays,” a romantic anthology series “about the people who work in and pass through Saturday’s restaurant.”



https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=ie

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I wonder too if this is part of the reason why the show went lighter during its midseason too other than the writers goofing around/scrambling to come up with ideas? Overall, did ABC feel uncomfortable with the show because it was too dark?
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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TP’s S2 ratings were not that strong for the era even before they really took a tumble. It finished #100 for the season (only nine shows ahead of the infamous Cop Rock): https://library.uoregon.edu/sites/defau ... lmanac.pdf

No matter you slice it, I think ABC did the right thing by their shareholders, even if we don’t like it. Like the man says, it’s not personal, it’s strictly business.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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I still say they made a huge mistake, even from a business perspective. They should have given it one more year and called it a creative trilogy, lowered the budget, maybe given Frost/Lynch some stricter conditions if they were willing to agree to that or if not at least asked them to have another mystery (not that I would have liked that as a fan, but I'm talking business here), maybe lowered the episode count too. At worst, it would have continued to stink the ratings but they might have milked some more critical acclaim or money from international markets, and at best it could have picked up and become a bit of a hit again. Failing all that, they could have offered Lynch some TV movies to continue the story - didn't they (or some network) do that with shows like "Murder She Wrote" etc.?

Any idea why Bravo never picked the show up - was it down to budget? Had they considered picking it back up when they bought all the rights to the first two seasons? They must have figured it would make them some money. I wonder what that deal was exactly in the first place.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Jonah, thanks for getting all those stats out there. Like Reindeer said, while those numbers seem high-ish, I think what we really have to look at are its overall rank among all shows, which was never high during season 2. Again, you make a lot of good points and what-if scenarios, but I simply believe the bottom line speaks for itself: the numbers were relatively low, the public was losing interest, the acclaim wasn't there. Now some of that might be because of the reasons you've laid out, but I think it was mostly just ahead of its time, which is both why mistakes were made in its production as well as in the way people received it.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Was it a struggle for a second season to be greenlit, meaning were they in danger of it being cancelled after the first season? I watched it as it aired and vaguely recall after the first season it being a question whether it would come back that Fall. However, I could be misremembering it. I used to look at local newspaper TV show news which broke it down into shows that had no threat of cancellation versus those that were "on the bubble", along with the "keep or cancel" readers polls.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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I wonder what the other shows were below the 85 mark in the 85-89 range and if ABC cancelled them. And what else, other than CB, they cancelled. It would be interesting to know if they kept shows 86-89 going for example despite the ratings, or even shows 76-84.

Twin Peaks was probably never meant for network TV, but if I had a time machine I'd go back and try to change the decision to cancel it, given it a few more seasons or TV movies. I would have loved to see the story continue back then when all the actors were relatively young and alive. The Return never fully gave me the continuation I wanted back then. I mean, it did in a lot of ways and it's great in its own way, don't get me wrong, but I would have truly loved to see more of the original series back in the day, at least 3 more seasons and a couple of movies after FWWM! (Yes, even if the quality went down.)
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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IcedOver wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 12:28 pm Was it a struggle for a second season to be greenlit, meaning were they in danger of it being cancelled after the first season? I watched it as it aired and vaguely recall after the first season it being a question whether it would come back that Fall. However, I could be misremembering it. I used to look at local newspaper TV show news which broke it down into shows that had no threat of cancellation versus those that were "on the bubble", along with the "keep or cancel" readers polls.
I don't think so. If you look elsewhere on the General forum, you'll see a thread with clips from the Donahue show, where Mark Frost announces live that they've been renewed for Season 2. (Edit - here's the thread: http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2659, it's the second video around the 7:38 mark, or here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZqHYbH ... anOfAction)

There was definitely audience frustration when the show didn't reveal who the murderer was in the Season 1 finale (and I'm not sure the shooting of Cooper - or maybe even the other cliffhangers? - took off as much as they had hoped), but it was still a massive hit then, there wasn't really any backlash yet (unless you count the murderer not being revealed in the finale, which did cause some disappointment).
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Agreed with LateReg. A quote in that book I linked is telling: “audiences were not as eager for innovative television as the networks had hoped” (this in reference to the failure of more experimental shows in comparison to a successful spinoff of America’s Funniest Home Videos—to remind you what the TV landscape looked like in that era).

As for why Bravo didn’t make new episodes, I would guess they didn’t have the budget. But I also think Lynch had just gotten his CIBY contract and was more interested in film than TV, and also (by all accounts) Lynch and Frost weren’t on great terms at that point after a stressful few years. Kyle was also tired of TP and they barely managed to get him for FWWM let alone another season. I just don’t think any of the parties involved were all that interested in doing another season at that point, but that’s pure speculation.
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Re: Why exactly did ABC treat the show so badly?

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Would Twin Peaks movies have been a hit for ABC? They got 10 million for the two part finale, give it another year or two and promote a few more like Murder She Wrote and Dallas movies. I wonder would Lynch have agreed to it (I think Frost might have), given he liked making movies and liked a continuing story. Seems it would have cost ABC a bit less and might have been a fun idea for them. They could have had new mysteries and also continued the story a bit but done standalone pieces too. Particularly once the backlash died down. (And maybe Frost and MacLachlan would have been back on board by then too.) A Twin Peaks TV movie in circa 93 or 95 would have been fun and could have been either light in tone like Season 1 or as dark and crazy as E29 or a mixture of both!

Shame about Bravo. I figure it was probably budget too.
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