NON SPOILERS: Twin Peaks: Season 3 on Showtime Thread

[Audrey Horne]

Fright, one could also look at it that Cooper knew Audrey for nine months or so because it was a weekly television show in terms of how the audience grows attached to the characters and invested in plots.

And in terms of the OEJs rescue being already done... That is true. But then again Peaks kept twinning and repeating. Is it any different then when Maddy is killed or the train car.... It repeats but goes deeper. OEJs represents the real world of a sinister red draped environment, and the Lodge an otherworldly one, themetatically it could be interesting. (Although, the cliffhanger was never imagined to be the Red Room for the Lodge.)

[Sid]

In the end they wanted Cooper to end up in the lodge trying to safe someone he loves and failing to do so - again.
I can easily picture this person being Audrey instead of Annie. Even if their relationship always stayed in the realm of platonic, flirtatious friendship.
It would have felt more organic to me.
Annie was brought in way too late, everything about their romance was rushed and felt wrong by the very own standards Cooper set for himself.

I don't remember any Cooper's standards that were demanding of him not to have a romantic relationship with a grown woman. Nor am I privy to any info that would speak of his realationship with Annie being wrong. Why was it wrong? Because she was an ex-nun who practically fell into his arms? That's still a long way from bedding a high-school minor just searching for a good father figure ...
About the "rushed" stuff that keeps getting repeated - did any of you ever hear about a thing called love at first sight? And besides, it's not like the relationship with Audrey would have developed out of a considerably longer mileage. I mean, how much longer did he knew her? 2-3 weeks??
And: we already had one pivotal scene of Cooper rescuing Audrey on the basis of their platonic, somewhat flirtatious friendship - One Eyed Jack's, anyone? Having it repeated in the case of the Black Lodge would be just a tad too trite.

It was wrong because he engaged in a relationship with her when the threat, that was Windome Earle, was at his peak.
Cooper did put Annie in the line of fire, despite knowing better.
That's what I call disregarding the moral standards he put up for himself.

[chalfont]

Her latest tweets seems she's more positive....?

[Audrey Horne]

I take Cooper's lax approach to the protection of Annie more to lax or rushed writing from production. So many of the late season two is an entirely different world from the pilot or first half of the show. None of the character work for me, just appreciation of some of the actors doing their scenes with the material provided, but I was always aware I was watching actors... As opposed to the first half through episode sixteen where these were the characters.

In the end, like what you like about the show... For some, Audrey and Cooper was my major hook, for others it's the Lodge business or Project something. I don't like seeing Laura defined as a real person and thought she lost power and mystery while many others love it the most. It's art that was also stuck with behind the scenes production problems. Love what you love. No one is right or wrong.

[FrightNight]

In the end they wanted Cooper to end up in the lodge trying to safe someone he loves and failing to do so - again.
I can easily picture this person being Audrey instead of Annie. Even if their relationship always stayed in the realm of platonic, flirtatious friendship.
It would have felt more organic to me.
Annie was brought in way too late, everything about their romance was rushed and felt wrong by the very own standards Cooper set for himself.

I don't remember any Cooper's standards that were demanding of him not to have a romantic relationship with a grown woman. Nor am I privy to any info that would speak of his realationship with Annie being wrong. Why was it wrong? Because she was an ex-nun who practically fell into his arms? That's still a long way from bedding a high-school minor just searching for a good father figure ...
About the "rushed" stuff that keeps getting repeated - did any of you ever hear about a thing called love at first sight? And besides, it's not like the relationship with Audrey would have developed out of a considerably longer mileage. I mean, how much longer did he knew her? 2-3 weeks??
And: we already had one pivotal scene of Cooper rescuing Audrey on the basis of their platonic, somewhat flirtatious friendship - One Eyed Jack's, anyone? Having it repeated in the case of the Black Lodge would be just a tad too trite.

It was wrong because he engaged in a relationship with her when the threat, that was Windome Earle, was at his peak.
Cooper did put Annie in the line of fire, despite knowing better.
That's what I call disregarding the moral standards he put up for himself.

Fair enough. I was following a different line of argument about their relationship being wrong, so I misunderstood you. Thanks for clarification.

[Soolsma]

That also bothered me, it were probably Coop's most naive moments throughout the series. Also, you'd expect he'd take the giant's warning a bit more serious.

(when first watching the giant's warning was probably the bit I was most freaked out by though)

[FrightNight]

Fright, one could also look at it that Cooper knew Audrey for nine months or so because it was a weekly television show in terms of how the audience grows attached to the characters and invested in plots.

And in terms of the OEJs rescue being already done... That is true. But then again Peaks kept twinning and repeating. Is it any different then when Maddy is killed or the train car.... It repeats but goes deeper. OEJs represents the real world of a sinister red draped environment, and the Lodge an otherworldly one, themetatically it could be interesting. (Although, the cliffhanger was never imagined to be the Red Room for the Lodge.)

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, so, good call on both counts, Audrey The idea about The Black Lodge being a flipped, paranormal version of OEJs is actually the one I like very much, so I would be interested in seeing it play out - in some kind of alternative reality where TP would be shaped by different showrunners' decisions than the ones we've gotten and would go on for at least another three seasons (deep sigh ...). It's all water under the bridge for a long time now, anyway, but it's sure a lot of fun to envision different scenarios, to speculate and argue about them with people who share an undying passion for the series

[Gersten Hayward]

They should have just had Cooper go all Jimmy Stewart in Vertigo and start dressing Annie like Caroline

On a slightly more serious note I do wonder what TP would have been like if Lynch & Frost were able to do everything their way without interference from the network or the actors.

[Soolsma]

On a slightly more serious note I do wonder what TP would have been like if Lynch & Frost were able to do everything their way without interference from the network or the actors.

We might have never been sure who killed Laura.

[djerdap]

On a slightly more serious note I do wonder what TP would have been like if Lynch & Frost were able to do everything their way without interference from the network or the actors.

You'll hopefully find that out next year with the new show.

[Audrey Horne]

We also have to remember that everything happened relatively fast once it aired. Production barely had enough time to breathe once the order was made for a second season of twenty two episodes and many of the players were thrust into the limelight at fairly young ages.

Fright, I do have to point out though that the Audrey character did not get demoted from production. Quite the opposite from my point of view. It seemed they were only stuck with about two or three episodes where she was in limbo (probably because they were reworking their scripts) when she is basically propped against a wall during the Civil War arc. To me it looked like they bent over backwards to give a fan favorite an A/protagonist storyline with Wheeler... it just wasn't very good. (Remember Laura Palmer is barely mentioned after 16 nor are the Palmers... We think we're moving onto another mystery of the Black Lodge and Windom Earle.). I always felt like MacLachlan and Fenn were given the gold protagonist treatment by the writers...no matter how poor or hokey the results were. Whereas other players it felt like afterthoughts. Poor Peggy Lipton (a truly great potential character.)

I don't approve of the use of social media, tweets... But I can certainly see, have sympathy over her surprise and possible frustration. Not that we know anything... But even objectively speaking, I immediately thought that besides revisiting the Palmers, that Cooper, Audrey and Truman would be at the top of their list to revisit.

[Panapaok]

Do we know exactly when the MIPCOM event, that Kyle will attend, takes place?

[laughingpinecone]

Do we know exactly when the MIPCOM event, that Kyle will attend, takes place?

I tried to consult the schedule a few days ago but couldn't find any trace of his presence!


About the big talk, and coming from someone who likes Annie and likes their chemistry - I think that Coop making mistakes with her and putting her in danger is very much Dale Cooper 101. It is a mistake! A horrible one! Which he does! From the book (the one that was outlined by the writers' room at large to seed upcoming plot points, yeah?), we know that he falls in love a lot, at first sight, and it always ends in tragedy. In this light, I find his story with Annie to be 100% in line with his past experiences. I love how the book contextualizes it and I think it's intentional. I do not like how the actual writing in the actual show doesn't seem to be aware of it one bit. So I'll take the book as retcon without giving those episodes the benefit of doubt.

Relatedly, about Audrey potentially growing into a healthy mentor-pupil relationship with Coop, keeping her crush at bay, slowly growing out of it - it would be my #1 dream development. It's what I think of when I mumble "Audrey deserved better". I do not think it was likely to happen on the show, because it's not really what Twin Peaks is interested in. Characters in Lynch works have sex a lot, often for all the wrong reasons, and when the reasons are wrong they land themselves into nasty messes. Characters in Twin Peaks almost have a damn competition for who gets to have the most negative character arc. It would be nice, but Laura Palmer didn't get to have nice things so neither does anyone else. So I don't think they would've gone there anyway.
I also don't think the consummation would've been treated with the care it would've deserved. All the storylines we saw from that chunk of the show were handled horribly, I have zero reasons to believe that all the writing talent which had otherwise disappeared would've somehow been channeled into that one.

[djerdap]

Do we know exactly when the MIPCOM event, that Kyle will attend, takes place?

Some details here:

http://worldscreen.com/twin-peaks-star- ... to-mipcom/

He's doing a photo call in about 25 minutes.

[Jerry Horne]

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