I am not really complaining about the pale horse per se but it does lack already established continuity. A pale horse was seen by Sarah Palmer on separate occasions right before she lost consciousness, due to being drugged by Leland when someone was going to be killed by BOB/Leland.
When the pale horse appeared in "The Return":
No one was being drugged.
Sarah Palmer wasn't there or drugged/being drugged.
BOB wasn't there.
Leland wasn't drugging anybody else.
Nobody else was being drugged or drugging.
So yes it felt sloppy as it went against already established continuity.
That is our interpretation of the White Horse. It could be something else in the Black Lodge when Cooper is leaving. He has been placed in similar unconscious state in the Lodge. If it is showing Cooper regaining conscious then it makes sense to be there. I am not sure what it means, but saying fuck is not the answer. To be fair, you don't know the answer either. No one does til Lynch explains why or it is connected in the show.
It's not an "interpretation".
A pale horse IS seen by Sarah Palmer on 2 separate occasions right before she loses consciousness, due to being drugged by Leland when someone was going to be killed by BOB/Leland.
Watch the episodes, that is EXACTLY what happens. That's not subject to interpretation at all. We all saw it. TWICE.
This new use of the pale horse DOES break already twice established continuity. Why was it put there in The Return? You're right, I have no idea and I would know if it was in the established manner, and that is why it is on the list grievances, although very far down on it.
It might have several meanings, e.g.:
- Being drugged
- Something really bad and tragic afoot (this is the traditional sense of the phrase "Behold a pale horse!" in the Book of Revelation). In another religious tradition it symbolises the murder of a key person.
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Did anyone catch that the Chromatics song uses the same chord progression as Badalamenti's theme? I thought that a nice touch to close the premier with.
I am not really complaining about the pale horse per se but it does lack already established continuity. A pale horse was seen by Sarah Palmer on separate occasions right before she lost consciousness, due to being drugged by Leland when someone was going to be killed by BOB/Leland.
When the pale horse appeared in "The Return":
No one was being drugged.
Sarah Palmer wasn't there or drugged/being drugged.
BOB wasn't there.
Leland wasn't drugging anybody else.
Nobody else was being drugged or drugging.
So yes it felt sloppy as it went against already established continuity.
That is our interpretation of the White Horse. It could be something else in the Black Lodge when Cooper is leaving. He has been placed in similar unconscious state in the Lodge. If it is showing Cooper regaining conscious then it makes sense to be there. I am not sure what it means, but saying fuck is not the answer. To be fair, you don't know the answer either. No one does til Lynch explains why or it is connected in the show.
It's not an "interpretation".
A pale horse IS seen by Sarah Palmer on 2 separate occasions right before she loses consciousness, due to being drugged by Leland when someone was going to be killed by BOB/Leland.
Watch the episodes, that is EXACTLY what happens. That's not subject to interpretation at all. We all saw it. TWICE.
This new use of the pale horse DOES break already twice established continuity. Why was it put there in The Return? You're right, I have no idea and I would know if it was in the established manner, and that is why it is on the list grievances, although very far down on it.
As stated by the poster before you, the pale horse could mean more than one thing. I thought it meant innocence, another poster thinks it means Bob or Death, you and a few others think it has something to do with drugs. I have no problem with it being in the Black Lodge, because we have seen it have a connection to BOB in some way. You seem to have a lot of grievance and some of them seem to be nonsensical.
StrangerDanger wrote:- Another representation of the Pale Horse still used in Shi'iah ceremonies of the Middle East today, to symbolise the murder of their hero: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tJF ... se&f=false
- Incidentally, l think the horse in the Book of Revelations was pale green, not pale white, but over time that nuance has been lost?
...and none of these things are Twin Peaks, where the use of the pale horse has been established. Already. Twice.
Y'all reaching.
I need to watch the part in Series 3 again, and again, l've lost much of the dialogue because l'm in need of subtitles regardless of how loud l play the movie. BUT ANYWAY ... as l recall, in Series 3, the pale horse presaged something bad going on. Just how bad it is, may yet transpire but surely the horse is a marker for something bad.
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I'm the Muffin wrote:
As for the new Arm--I loved it. I thought it was a wonderfully creative way to turn a problem into a positive. And it make some strange kind of sense to me, the sycamore trees, the woods which have always felt like they had an odd sentience to them... and it's such a surreal dreamlike image.
The new arm is scaring me a lot. I walked away feeling like l'd been touched by evil. Even now when l think about it, the feeling of wrongness just grows.
I agree 100%. "Wrong" is the right way to describe it. It reminds me of the kind of radical alienness we read about in Lovecraft. The kind of thing that makes people go mad just by looking at it.
Last edited by Wonderful & Strange on Tue May 23, 2017 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lotjx2 wrote:
No one does til Lynch explains why or it is connected in the show.
But does Lynch himself even know the answer? I just read that he didn't rewatch the old series before sitting down to co-write the new ones. I find that incredibly disheartening, although it helps explain why this all feels so different from the original series. My only hope is that Frost reigned him in whenever he would contradict canon.
SpookyDollhouse wrote:
1.) This wasn't made for basic cable consumption
Neither was The Sopranos, but look at what happened there. Twin Peaks has aired on basic cable since its original airing, so it would be nice if this new season could as well. Maybe there's a way they can cut around Madeline Zima's breasts and buttocks without missing any of the alien/demon stuff, I don't know.
2.) The nudity isn't unprecedented for a Lynch work and isn't gratuitous
I think it's gratuitous in that monster could have attacked while they were just making out partially clothed and it would have made no difference. This is just my opinion, but that would have made it easier for it to one day air on, say, The CW (which CBS co-owns).
KillerBOB wrote:
But does Lynch himself even know the answer? I just read that he didn't rewatch the old series before sitting down to co-write the new ones. I find that incredibly disheartening, although it helps explain why this all feels so different from the original series. My only hope is that Frost reigned him in whenever he would contradict canon.
Lynch gets his material via inspiration, l think, and that extends back to Ser. 1 & 2, so maybe he's continuing in the same vein. It's incredibly reassuring!
I love to think of Frost being his "gate", the mind as opposed to the soul, which gives form to the soul's fulminations.
KillerBOB wrote:
I think it's gratuitous in that monster could have attacked while they were just making out partially clothed and it would have made no difference. This is just my opinion, but that would have made it easier for it to one day air on, say, The CW (which CBS co-owns).
It's a bit of a cliche isn't it, like "evil monster spoils sex scene by killing the youths making out" - but l'll wait and see if there was a good reason for it, or if it was just Showtime saying you need some incentive for the voyeurs to watch.
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Another thought re: the 'something is missing'. Maybe it's the Owl Cave ring? We know from 'The Secret History' that the ring has ties to the Native people in Twin Peaks, it's linked to Cooper because of all the Lodge goings-on. I just don't know if I can trace the convoluted path of the ring adequately enough to determine where it would be missing from. Who was the last person to have it in the original series or FWWM? Laura? Dougie Milford? Annie and the nurse, if the Missing Pieces count?
I never thought I'd hear someone claim that David Lynch's use of a white horse (or any symbology) "breaks continuity" in Twin Peaks.
This isn't Star Trek, it isn't even Lost. There are almost no definite symbols with definite, explicit purposes in Twin Peaks; so much is up for interpretation. The white horse can symbolize any number of things, and it does betide catastrophe for Cooper. That is not a "continuity error". Using a subjective symbol in a way not previously established just because you didn't think of it doesn't "break continuity".
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
lotjx2 wrote:I am cool with the nudity. Both times, it served a purpose. The first showing the vulnerability of the young lovers when they are killed.
That doesn't sound like much of a purpose considering they would have been no better protected against an all-mighty evil if they were partially clothed.
And I didn't know about second nude scene because I haven't seen episodes 3 and 4. So thanks for that.
StrangerDanger wrote:
I love to think of Frost being his "gate", the mind as opposed to the soul, which gives form to the soul's fulminations.
You know, I hadn't really thought of their partnership in those terms, but it probably helps to think of it that way. So maybe it is reassuring! I've only been going off my
feelings for the first two episodes (I'm waiting for Sunday to watch the next two), and I'm sure it will get better.
There's absolutely nothing about the pale horse's appearance that contradicts what came before. Why shouldn't it be both Sarah's go-to drug trip vision and a Lodge totem? First of all, as people have pointed out, it's a symbol of death that predates the Bible; certainly sounds like it could be part of the Lodge mythology to me (and an essay could probably be written on Sarah's willful ignorance and the fact that she finds the pale horse comforting rather than terrifying). Second, it appears to Sarah when BOB is present. Maybe in Sarah's case it acts as a harbinger of Lodge presence; or maybe, the Lodge (which we know feeds off human pain and fear -- but quite possibly also positive emotions like love, per Briggs -- may have ingested Sarah's odd combination of horror/grief/peacefulness represented by her mental image of the pale horse and incorporated it into the Lodge's ever-changing face). It doesn't take much imagination to see how Sarah's vision and the appearance of the horse in the Return could be reconciled.
Contrast that with the way that Bob in the original series -- and especially FWWM and TSDoLP -- acts simultaneously as literal Lodge spirit seen by many characters and as metaphorical masking/denial mechanism for both Laura and Leland. TP has a history of mixing the metaphorical and the literal in a way that makes very little sense logically, but feels entirely right intuitively.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Tue May 23, 2017 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
StrangerDanger wrote:
It's a bit of a cliche isn't it, like "evil monster spoils sex scene by killing the youths making out" - but l'll wait and see if there was a good reason for it, or if it was just Showtime saying you need some incentive for the voyeurs to watch.
Or Lynch (and Frost) thinking it'd be sexy to see some titties at this point
It's not that they a necessarily above that sort of thinking. "I like nude women and factories" is a quote from David after all
Mr. Reindeer wrote:There's absolutely nothing about the pale horse's appearance that contradicts what came before. Why shouldn't it be both Sarah's go-to drug trip vision and a Lodge totem? First of all, as people have pointed it, it's a symbol of death that predates the Bible; certainly sounds like it could be part of the Lodge mythology to me (and an essay could probably be written on Sarah's willful ignorance and the fact that she finds the pale horse comforting rather than terrifying). Second, it appears to Sarah when BOB is present. Maybe in Sarah's case it acts as a harbinger of Lodge presence; or maybe, the Lodge (which we know feeds off human pain and fear -- but quite possibly also positive emotions like love, per Briggs -- may have ingested Sarah's odd combination of horror/grief/peacefulness represented by her mental image of the pale horse and incorporated it into the Lodge's ever-changing face). It doesn't take much imagination to see how Sarah's vision and the appearance of the horse in the Return could be reconciled.
Contrast that with the way that Bob in the original series -- and especially FWWM and TSDoLP -- acts simultaneously as literal Lodge spirit seen by many characters and as metaphorical masking/denial mechanism for both Laura and Leland. TP has a history of mixing the metaphorical and the literal in a way that makes very sense logically, but feels entirely right intuitively.
Excellent.
By the way, l'm not sure the pale horse is comfort for Sarah Palmer (unless l've overlooked something). Maybe she's comforted by the drugs, and so the horror of Leland sexually abusing their daughter is diminished to a mere mind residual: the pale horse.
What i mean is, the pale horse is still really bad, but Sarah's too cosy and drugged out to see anything but that iconic form.
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