Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

[nick1218]

Jesus, I'm amazed at some people's incapacity to connect the dots. It's all layed down before your eyes, people.

Twin Peaks : The Return is NOT the continuation of the original Twin Peaks. Lynch's intention is to tell a whole other story. The main theme is the desintegration of the word. The whole world has become a "dark, dark place" (Jane-E Leigh) and even the most charming place from the past, the town of Twin Peaks, is poisoned by this overwhelming darkness ("Something is missing", warned the Log Lady in the first ep. What is missing ? TP's spirit and soul, I guess).

TP has now become a place where ruthless white trashes shoot people with a rifle, then go get a bite at Wendy's like nothing happened.

TP is now a place where the children suffer never ending, agonizing pains : they see their dad getting shot right before their eyes, they are being run over by cars, they get so diseased they act like vomiting zombies, etc.

TP was a town where Ben Horn was able to enjoy the simplest pleasures in life (a bike given by his daddy) when he was younger, and now it's a place where his own grand son commit the most horrifying crimes to sustain his life as a piece of shit dealer.

TP is now a place where girlfriends meeting at the Roadhouse can only talk about their drug habits (Sky Ferrara) or people getting out of jail, like in this ep.

Maybe the Dougie arc is supposed to show how a fragile glimpse of hope is able (or not) to reenter such a bleak, desperate world.

lol what you posted is not "connecting dots" you condescending person

[bastia]

Jacoby is in white tall mountain. I guess something will going on there.

Two mountains, twins. One white, one blue.
Two coopers, one good, one evil.

Something's up.


I don't remember very well, In TSHOTP we discovered that there's a base inside a mountain in Twin peaks or am I literally dreaming?

[Jonah]

Got to say - I love all these theories you guys are coming up with in relation to Audrey.

It's possible that she is still in a coma or in the lodge - and he's blocking her entry. There's undoubtedly references to dreams here and the whole sequence arguably has a fairytale feel.

It's not a great scene, but the warmth and colour of it are amazing and the whole set looks so old-fashioned and timeless.

My only problem with the theories is that they do mention Billy, who was previously mentioned in the real world, and she also mentions the roadhouse. I don't know how that would fit into the more imaginative theories, so my worry is that this will be a bit like LOST - the fans coming up with better ideas than the writers, and it will just turn out that she's married to that guy and looking for a Billy who's she cheating with. Nevertheless, I'm intrigued, and I do really like the mise en scene of that sequence.

[Deep Thought]

Jesus, I'm amazed at some people's incapacity to connect the dots. It's all layed down before your eyes, people.

Twin Peaks : The Return is NOT the continuation of the original Twin Peaks. Lynch's intention is to tell a whole other story. The main theme is the desintegration of the word. The whole world has become a "dark, dark place" (Jane-E Leigh) and even the most charming place from the past, the town of Twin Peaks, is poisoned by this overwhelming darkness ("Something is missing", warned the Log Lady in the first ep. What is missing ? TP's spirit and soul, I guess).

TP has now become a place where ruthless white trashes shoot people with a rifle, then go get a bite at Wendy's like nothing happened.

TP is now a place where the children suffer never ending, agonizing pains : they see their dad getting shot right before their eyes, they are being run over by cars, they get so diseased they act like vomiting zombies, etc.

TP was a town where Ben Horn was able to enjoy the simplest pleasures in life (a bike given by his daddy) when he was younger, and now it's a place where his own grand son commit the most horrifying crimes to sustain his life as a piece of shit dealer.

TP is now a place where girlfriends meeting at the Roadhouse can only talk about their drug habits (Sky Ferrara) or people getting out of jail, like in this ep.

Maybe the Dougie arc is supposed to show how a fragile glimpse of hope is able (or not) to reenter such a bleak, desperate world.

lol what you posted is not "connecting dots" you condescending person

Indeed, these dots are rather incoherent. Much of this stuff happened 25 years ago as well, and besides nobody has been to a Wendy's in Twin Peaks so far, but maybe that is Tim Roth's MO, and he will visit the one on Main St.

[freeek]

lol what you posted is not "connecting dots" you condescending person

Then what are they, lol person ?

[freeek]

Indeed, these dots are rather incoherent.

OK let's keep it simple. Why do you think you were shown three minutes of Ben Horne ad libbing on that bike he loved so much ?

[LostInTheMovies]

Thoughts on Pt. 12: http://www.lostinthemovies.com/2017/07/ ... -rock.html

Each individual episode is such a roller coaster, not just as I watch but afterwards. There were parts last night where I thought, "This is absolutely one of the best episodes of Twin Peaks! This Sarah Palmer stuff is amazing! Every scene has me absorbed!" When it was over, I feel like some of that sensation was already starting to fade, overshadowed by the weaker parts (perhaps purposefully weaker - I'm thinking of that egregious Jacoby here-we-go-again scene which perfectly teed us up for the Audrey shock), but even so I retained some of that excitement. And then after writing my response, I went to Twitter and saw that a lot of people didn't like it.

One reason I'm glad that I'm recording my thoughts as they go is that each episode will appear so differently to me when - if? - I know where it's all going. Hell, even rewatching them a few days later the experience is often quite different.

[HagbardCeline]

In the original TP series, the last scene we ever saw featuring Sarah Palmer was her escorted by Jacoby (I think) and entering the Double R. She was clearly possessed by *someting*. Remember that creepy voice ?

Wasn't that Windom Earle getting the taunting message to Cooper through someone who had been touched by the lodge enough to communicate it?

Unfortunately that scene wasn't in the screenplay for that episode so we're never 100% sure whose voice that is supposed to be.

[counterpaul]

counterpaul, beautiful insights as usual. I only wonder what do you think was the purpose behind the reused Jacoby scene? Just another case of Lynch's free-jazz editing adding to the confusion and building up to the Audrey reveal? I mean, we’ve already had Norma with her papers being reused in the context of that weird time-shifting anybodys-seen-billy diner scene, but now it's even more jarring -- Jerry listened to it before he got lost, and now it's repeating without Jerry, while also echoing his I’VE BEEN HERE BEFORE thing.
Repeated dialogue is one thing, as with marvelous Heidi in the pilot and episode 29, but reused footage is a different and much stranger animal, and I guess I’m still figuring out the right way to approach it.

As to this specific Jacoby scene, including the largely repeated intro, I do think it's primarily about leading up to the reveal of Audrey. Cutting from Jacoby screaming about the ninth level of hell to Audrey standing in front of that fire was exceedingly effective. Lynch is also clearly creating a specific connection between Jacoby and Nadine that I suspect has more to do with wherever Nadine's character is heading than Jacoby. He's building something here. I doubt it's some big plot payoff (more likely it's more about thematics), but it's interesting that he's keeping Nadine present.

All that, however, could have been accomplished without the repeated intro. It could very well have simply been a rhythm thing--wanting to ease into Jacoby's rant--but repetition in general is huge motif in TPTR. Lines are repeated ("It could make a difference," "I was a little behind schedule when my car veered over off the road and I had my accident," etc.--it's a long list), shots are repeated. I don't think we're looking at alternate timelines or anything that explicit with all this, but it's absolutely something to do with time in the abstract. If TPTR is about any one thing, it's about time.

[Jasper]

In the original TP series, the last scene we ever saw featuring Sarah Palmer was her escorted by Jacoby (I think) and entering the Double R. She was clearly possessed by *someting*. Remember that creepy voice ?

Wasn't that Windom Earle getting the taunting message to Cooper through someone who had been touched by the lodge enough to communicate it?

Unfortunately that scene wasn't in the screenplay for that episode so we're never 100% sure whose voice that is supposed to be.

It's been reversed, and it's pretty much definitely the voice of Kenneth Welsh, which entirely fits with the Earle storyline.

[Audrey Horne]

Audrey was in a coma, and now so far we've seen her talking non sequiturs to a small man who won't answer her questions, and something about dreams while she puts on a red coat. All new character names except Billy and mention of a sheriff.

[crash_and_burn]

There are a heck of a lot of references to smoking in this show.

Gotta light?

The spelling of that's kind of odd. Out of context, wouldn't one would naturally read that as a contraction of "got to light"?

It's standard spelling for the short-hand vernacular usage of "Have you got a light?"

But it's not short hand - that was my point.



"Gotta go" = "Got to go". That's a contraction. When people speak, they don't enunciate the word "to".

"Got a light" is exactly how it is written and spoken, so there is no contraction. If it's really meant to mean "got a light", it's wrong.

Well, I know my vernacular and so does the Oxford English Dictionary, so I regretfully need to inform you, that you are wrong.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gotta

[Dreamy Audrey]

In the Audrey scene Charlie says it's new moon. The season 3 dates match the calendar of 2016 and that year there actually was a new moon on 10/1, one of the dates in the major's message. By the way, I thought I heard a storm in the background of the scene, but I'm not sure and can't check at the moment.

[Deep Thought]

Indeed, these dots are rather incoherent.

OK let's keep it simple. Why do you think you were shown three minutes of Ben Horne ad libbing on that bike he loved so much ?

Writing "even the most charming place from the past, the town of Twin Peaks, is poisoned by this overwhelming darkness" makes me wonder if we even watched the same seasons 1 & 2.

Laura Palmer was bad enough, but her daddy, Andrew and Josie Packard, Thomas Eckhardt, Jean Renault and co., Leo Johnson, Cliff Howard, Blackie, Emory Battis, Hank Jennings, Maddy Ferguson, Harold Smith, Malcolm Sloan, Teresa Banks, Dell Mibbler, Rusty Tomasky, Jonathan Kumagai, and Waldo, among other, would also take issue with you calling TP a "most charming place.” That's an awful lot of killing for a small, charming town. Also, the rapey, druggy, torture bits were a little unseemly too.

And Ben liked his bike so much because it was two-tone green, a lime green and a DEEP FOREST GREEN. It's all laid out before your eyes.

[alreadygoneplaces]

After one and a half rewatches, I’m still of the opinion that this was a very disappointing episode, rescued by two of the season’s finest scenes (Sarah Palmer).

So, some elaboration on why it didn’t work for me:

- The overall pacing and rhythm just didn’t feel right at all. The short and long scenes didn’t seem to gel comfortably, making the former seem comparatively rushed, and the latter to be unnecessarily long (and that’s the first time I’ve made that criticism, having really enjoyed the slow pace thus far)

- Although Audrey was a great character who brought a lot to the original show, I’d said before I didn’t really see a need for her to have a role to play this time around. I’m now even less interested in her story. I found this scene clumsy and unconvincing on all levels. Sherilyn wasn’t bad, but it felt like there was zero rapport between her and the guy who played Charlie. It felt like two actors who’d just met for the first time minutes earlier, and were running through their lines for the first time. Which may well have been the case. The dialogue seemed off- seeming focussed on obfuscation, while still managing to make the few moments of real exposition seem awkwardly forced. Again, I must stress, I’ve been a huge supporter of the show’s pace throughout, but after this episode had already doubled down on impatience jokes, this time it actually felt tiresome. One too many uses of that particular device in a short space of time. I’ve loved how we’ve been in the dark when initially encountering characters as various unknown names and stories are mentioned, but here, I just didn't feel interested. Similarly, going straight from this scene to the Roadhouse one, I noticed myself not really caring who that group were or what they were talking about, and I was genuinely surprised to find myself feeling that way at this stage.

- Gordon’s 'friend': We know David can do these scenes well, we’ve seen it enough times. And I appreciate the interesting oddness of the character and how the actress played it. But my first instinct was “okay, we’re doing this again, then. I’ll wait.” It was funny the 5th time. My other issues with this scene I’ll take to the gender thread, later.

- Jacoby re-cycling - I’m really scratching my head at this. I can’t think of any way to justify this editing decision that sits well with me.

- Which leads me to my main source of frustration with this episode. One of the reasons I was so surprised at the extensive re-use of Jacoby’s footage was because I’ve always dismissed any talk of ‘filler’ in TP:TR up until now. I hadn’t really felt that anything had been ‘filler’. Whenever people talked about how they thought the season was a 9 episode story stretched over 18, I couldn’t understand it, as I actually have intermittently had the opposite fear. Around episode 5 and 6, I was really worried that there were so many characters and plot strands being laid out that there wouldn’t be enough time to adequately integrate them in 18 hours, especially given the purposefully slow pace. It felt like they were introducing us to a world that would be best explored over a multiple season show. Some of the episodes from 7 onwards quelled my fears somewhat, and I had more faith that Lynch and Frost have got it covered. Those fears are now coming back again with a vengeance- it feels like too late in the day to put the brakes on the overall momentum and dedicate so much time to first episode style introductory scenes to new (new/old) characters, and most exasperatingly, recycled material like the Jacoby scene. I do still have hope that there’s time for it all to come together, and sure, a lot can happen in even a single episode, but I’m a lot less optimistic about this than I was last week. We have 6 hours left, and so much ground left to cover.

- Maybe all of these issues wouldn’t have been a problem to me if it wasn’t for that particular sequencing of scenes in the second half of this episode. Had there been a few structural changes, I don’t think we’d be seeing as much frustration in this thread. Most of the material in the second half of this episode may have felt more engaging had it been either side of checking in with the plotlines which already had some momentum- there were lots of options here.

- This is the kind of criticism I’m hesitant to make given it’s not over yet, but it’s really starting to feel like all manner of plot holes are arising overall. I’m generally very forgiving of these things, especially with a show like this one, and indeed, there is a fine line between a plot hole and a mystery. I only hope that by the time it’s all over, these issues will seem more interesting than lazy.

More thoughts:

- I keep rewatching the Sarah Palmer scenes. Despite everything I said above, these scenes redeem the episode for me. I’ve been desperate to see more of Sarah since her initial appearance, but was fearful that we wouldn't. I’ve always thought Grace Zabriskie was brilliant, but I’m still taken aback by her performance here. Although these scenes seem to be unanimously popular, they’re being talked about far less than I thought they would have been. Compared to my interest in this plotline, I really couldn’t care less who Richard Horne’s parents are. The most interesting and potentially worrying things about her scenes were her how attuned and fearful she was over minor changes in her surroundings (the Turkey Jerky)- “were you here when it arrived?” was the question that stuck out the most. I’d assumed that the changing RR extras at the end of episode 7 weren’t deliberate, but after Sarah in the shop, I’m definitely now entertaining the idea that something really, really weird is happening in Twin Peaks. Another thing it could be (maybe more likely, actually) is something related to a detail in a vision or dream she had, such as the fear of the Winkies man (Mulholland Drive) increasing when he sees his friend standing over by the counter. But another thing that made the scene so strong is that while the supernatural themes of the show make us know that Sarah is not just mentally ill, it simultaneously works on that level too. The particular combination of her confusion, tentativeness and defensiveness, along with some of her mannerisms, reminded me of a relative with alzheimers and dementia enough for the scene to really hit hard. I was happy that while the girl and boy on the checkout were rattled by it and didn’t know how to process it, they didn’t laugh at her, and the boy wanted to help, despite his wariness. Let’s hope it didn’t bite him in the ass, and he wasn’t in Sarah’s kitchen. The way she reacted to that noise was extremely creepy.

Another thing troubling about Sarah now is there’s a noticeable duality there- talking to herself, addressing herself from the 3rd person. But also alternating between seeming like she desperately wanted to help without being able articulate the problem*, and seeming somewhat malicious in her scene with Hawk. I’ve seen people speculate she’s with BOB… I doubt this is the case, but I still find her by far the most fascinating mystery in The Return.

*She also seemed to be grappling with some sort of insight here- “Something happened to me!”

- I mentioned earlier that Ben seemed to react strangely upon hearing that an investigation relating to Cooper had been reopened. Seemed very curious on rewatch too. No-one else thought this?

- Coordinates +2? What? Also, in the flashback, while Diane is memorising the numbers from the photo, she seems to mouth the word “co…ord..in..ates”. Huh?

- The musical cue when Tammy was brought into the Blue Rose fold makes me fear she’s going to “die in a fire” or (hell god baby damn no) “find something”.

- Chromatics. Projecting utter disinterestedness isn’t an endearing affectation. Watching them perform is like watching a teenage boy being dragged around a department store by his mother…