Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

[claaa7]

Is the InsectFrog Laura? Is it Bob? I'm actually thinking maybe it could be more woodsmen...Only because it seems the woodsmen work in tandem with the InsectFrog.

But the InsectFrog going inside a little girl, doesnt make much sense for it to then become a woodsmen, so not sure.

Thoughts?

Gotta light?

Both Laura and Bob came in Orbs. The FrogRoach came from an egg ( also spewed put into the stream by Mother). So my guess would be something other than Laura or Bob.

i think the Bob orb was one of several similiar eggs spewed forth by Mother/Experiment.. in my mind the only reason one had Bob's face was to signal to the viewer that it in fact was the birth of Bob without dialouge (thankfully). in "reality" all the eggs probably looked the same.

[DeepBlueSeed]

Is the InsectFrog Laura? Is it Bob? I'm actually thinking maybe it could be more woodsmen...Only because it seems the woodsmen work in tandem with the InsectFrog.

But the InsectFrog going inside a little girl, doesnt make much sense for it to then become a woodsmen, so not sure.

Thoughts?

Gotta light?

Both Laura and Bob came in Orbs. The FrogRoach came from an egg ( also spewed put into the stream by Mother). So my guess would be something other than Laura or Bob.

i think the Bob orb was one of several similiar eggs spewed forth by Mother/Experiment.. in my mind the only reason one had Bob's face was to signal to the viewer that it in fact was the birth of Bob without dialouge (thankfully). in "reality" all the eggs probably looked the same.

I think it looks so close to the shape that is pulled from Bad Coop's body that it has more in common with that than the eggs. I think it represents a rebirth rather than an actual birth, already fully realised with an evil gleam in his eye.

[Soolsma]

I'm not sure on this birth thing and leaning more towards a (re-)entry to earth/this reality.

[Jasper]

I'm not sure on this birth thing and leaning more towards a (re-)entry to earth/this reality.

I think we can perceive it as a birthing of BOB into our reality. BOB can already exist in some way and be birthed into our reality.

[james.mooney.]

I sort of question the idea of BOB as _the_ incarnation of the purest form of evil. He is certainly _an_ incarnation of evil, but on a global scale, as a serial killer with a relatively low body count, he's not that exceptional.

What Part 8 may have shown us is an example of good vs. evil (Laura vs. BOB) that is possibly one of hundreds of thousands or millions of cases of relatively innocent people standing up to (or being defeated by) their tormentors.

Whether or not Lynch and Frost's vision is that the fate of mankind hinges upon the outcome of this particular conflict remains to be seen.

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[Novalis]

I sort of question the idea of BOB as _the_ incarnation of the purest form of evil. He is certainly _an_ incarnation of evil, but on a global scale, as a serial killer with a relatively low body count, he's not that exceptional.

What Part 8 may have shown us is an example of good vs. evil (Laura vs. BOB) that is possibly one of hundreds of thousands or millions of cases of relatively innocent people standing up to (or being defeated by) their tormentors.

Whether or not Lynch and Frost's vision is that the fate of mankind hinges upon the outcome of this particular conflict remains to be seen.

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Both the spewing forth of the BOB egg and the release of the Prom Queen photo egg strike me as the sallying forth of an emblematic force and counter-force rather than literal sending-to-earth of these two particular entities. In fact I quail at the idea of Laura as a soul being sent forth to do battle in some kind of cosmic space opera, particularly if this scene predates her birth. I like to imagine that we are only seeing BOB's face and Laura's prom shot because those two images serve as conventional representations of dark and light (well, lighter then) within the Twin Peaks continuity. As visual signifiers I don't think they are particularly indexical and probably not iconic; to me rather they are just pars-pro-toto symbols, metonyms if you like. It's difficult for me to imagine BOB and Laura Palmer as the concrete distillations of good and evil in some kind of grand game sweeping the centuries. I'm willing to be totally wrong on this of course.

[TwinsPeak]

Both Laura and Bob came in Orbs. The FrogRoach came from an egg ( also spewed put into the stream by Mother). So my guess would be something other than Laura or Bob.

i think the Bob orb was one of several similiar eggs spewed forth by Mother/Experiment.. in my mind the only reason one had Bob's face was to signal to the viewer that it in fact was the birth of Bob without dialouge (thankfully). in "reality" all the eggs probably looked the same.

I think it looks so close to the shape that is pulled from Bad Coop's body that it has more in common with that than the eggs. I think it represents a rebirth rather than an actual birth, already fully realised with an evil gleam in his eye.

I suppose we need to see more episodes to know more....sounds fun.

I do like the idea that all the eggs are the same even the BoB egg and we are only seeing his face, so the viewer knows Bob is included in this invasion. I dont think this is a re-entry, I think we saw the entry.....why are people thinking its a re-entry?

[N. Needleman]

More of my mental vomit from the other thread:

We saw her in the White Lodge(??) in that orb. They (meaning Dido and the Giant) knew Laura or something very much like Laura would be born. They sent that orb to our world. That is, if not predestination, at least creation from a kind of divinity. I'm also willing to bet some aspect of Laura is going to turn up literally 'alive'. Leland told Cooper to find her. This is not about just remembering her.

I don't think Laura in her old life was superhuman or alien. She was mortal and human. She was born, she was abused, she struggled, she saved her soul, she died. That is all still valid. But what Laura also was, and is - and what is heavily implied in part 8, IMO - is something more than just her past human existence. Especially once she ascended at the very end of FWWM, which IMO pre-dates this series.

Laura was a human girl who also has roots in being cosmically important. Now that power is more explicit than ever. It is not a metaphor or just about memory and honoring her. It is something literal and real. I think that's what Lynch wants, I think he's been working his way up to it since before the original series ended, and he doesn't care what anyone else thinks.

I think we're seeing both (literal and metaphorical) stories, and always have with Lynch/Frost. And I think when Lynch depicts these kind of fantastical things in his latter-day films - especially since FWWM - he is being both explicitly 'real' in the world of his story and metaphorical at the same time.

A lot of the 'origin story' ideas from Part 8 originated in early drafts of FWWM, according to Robert Engels. They intended to use that as the new mythology in that film or future ones, but those were also undoubtedly dream-state ideas from within Lynch's subconscious that he brought to life on film or the page. Same as he's always worked on TP; interpreting dream ideas into literal concept, using Frost, Engels and others to help him re-interpret it. I think Part 8 is no different. And I suspect having a scene in which Laura is born from a golden orb and sent to Earth when the Lodge beings are alerted to catastrophe is very literal in his mind.

Laura was a human girl who died, but to Lynch she is also/has become a higher being who transcends her pain and suffering. He hinted at it heavily in FWWM. Now he is just making that very literal and tying her deep and inextricably to the more obvious mythological elements of the show so she can never be removed or marginalized again.

IMO that will continue. If people think they are going to downplay this element or say Laura does not have a cosmic purpose or higher power/calling (despite having been a human girl), I suggest they buckle up.

To be clear, I think the orb scene happens before Laura's birth. I think that is the most coherent reading, given what the rest of that whole sequence indicates re: ?????/The Giant being alerted to the incursion onto Earth of BOB and co. at the same time. Some aspect of Laura is then created or summoned and sent to our world to someday be born (and fight BOB, and die, and then ascend and then I suspect become much more powerful). I also think the rest of this new series takes place after she found her angel at the end of FWWM.

How people read or feel about that is up to them. But I do think she was born to be strong and good, perhaps fight and die and then fulfill a higher purpose. I'm okay with all of that because I think Lynch has been building to that kind of Christ/cosmic elevation with Laura for decades. Now he is just slapping everyone in the face with it. I also trust where he'll go with it, and I don't think it invalidates the painful life story Laura had - because I think that life story goes hand in hand with how it ends, what she did to save her soul, and what happened to her after in the Red Room with Agent Cooper.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Hadn't seen this before: good interview with Dean Hurley. http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/twin-pe ... 202470579/

Some interesting points: Sounds like Mark was very involved in the sound design as well. Hurley was one of the privileged few to read the full script. The Paris Sisters song was written into the script. He describes Angelo's new music as a "small library." Talks a bit about selecting and recording all the bands. He confirms that Mark & David screened Episode 29 (doesn't say anything one way or the other about any other episodes of the original or FWWM).

Unforgivable missed opportunity: the interviewer doesn't ask about the selection process for Lorraine's "hip hop" track.

[Pinky]

I sort of question the idea of BOB as _the_ incarnation of the purest form of evil. He is certainly _an_ incarnation of evil, but on a global scale, as a serial killer with a relatively low body count, he's not that exceptional.

What Part 8 may have shown us is an example of good vs. evil (Laura vs. BOB) that is possibly one of hundreds of thousands or millions of cases of relatively innocent people standing up to (or being defeated by) their tormentors.

Whether or not Lynch and Frost's vision is that the fate of mankind hinges upon the outcome of this particular conflict remains to be seen.

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the stakes feel raised now. Maybe DoppelCoop is planning something nuclear? The One-Armed Man is pretty desperately trying to get through to Cooper.

[mtsi]

i think the Bob orb was one of several similiar eggs spewed forth by Mother/Experiment.. in my mind the only reason one had Bob's face was to signal to the viewer that it in fact was the birth of Bob without dialouge (thankfully). in "reality" all the eggs probably looked the same.

I think it looks so close to the shape that is pulled from Bad Coop's body that it has more in common with that than the eggs. I think it represents a rebirth rather than an actual birth, already fully realised with an evil gleam in his eye.

I suppose we need to see more episodes to know more....sounds fun.

I do like the idea that all the eggs are the same even the BoB egg and we are only seeing his face, so the viewer knows Bob is included in this invasion. I dont think this is a re-entry, I think we saw the entry.....why are people thinking its a re-entry?

Hitler died in 1945.

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[vicksvapor77]

I'm not sure on this birth thing and leaning more towards a (re-)entry to earth/this reality.

I think we can perceive it as a birthing of BOB into our reality. BOB can already exist in some way and be birthed into our reality.

Why aren't people okay with Bob being "born" in 1945? It doesn't mean evil didn't exist in the world before that, or even in Twin Peaks. Mark's book indicates a lot of this mythology goes back to Native American heritage that predates what we saw in Part 8. I would say perhaps Mother/Experiment existed before the nuke and then she created Bob and all the other countless evil "children?" That the nuke testing allowed the parallel universes to finally intersect? Though the name "Experiment" also indicates maybe she was born of the nuclear experiments, also.

[dontlooknow]

it seems that the woodmen occupy the convenience store site BEFORE mother vomits her children into the world.

so this evil would have been on earth already.

[Mr. Reindeer]

I'm not sure on this birth thing and leaning more towards a (re-)entry to earth/this reality.

I think we can perceive it as a birthing of BOB into our reality. BOB can already exist in some way and be birthed into our reality.

Why aren't people okay with Bob being "born" in 1945? It doesn't mean evil didn't exist in the world before that, or even in Twin Peaks. Mark's book indicates a lot of this mythology goes back to Native American heritage that predates what we saw in Part 8. I would say perhaps Mother/Experiment existed before the nuke and then she created Bob and all the other countless evil "children?" That the nuke testing allowed the parallel universes to finally intersect? Though the name "Experiment" also indicates maybe she was born of the nuclear experiments, also.

If anything, this "origin story" explains why Bob looks like a denim-clad white dude, despite being part of a larger mythology that predates caucasians in the US. He's just one particular iteration/manifestation of something larger (and his "Depression-era drifter" look totally works for the 1945 era's stereotypical image of danger).

[DamnFineCreamedCorn]

it seems that the woodmen are on site BEFORE mother vomits her children into the world. they occupy the convenience store before the birth scene iirc.

FWIW I think of the woodsman as minor lodge spirits - heralds of some sort? - which take the form of the eight killed in the river fire mentioned in The Secret History. They received the power to manifest in our world through the energy released by the bomb.

In the mother's eggs, the woodsmen saw potentially powerful allies. Like Bob, who was in the lodge, but not of the lodge.

Naturally it's murkier than this, and I actually prefer it murky, but this is how I'm currently understanding things.