World of Blue - Archived Forum 2007-2022

I do wonder where that LITTLE bit of pristine-looking S2 deleted footage on the Blu Ray came from (the additional Horne home movie footage, the alternate version of the Bobby/Shelly pageant scene, and the extended Andy/Lucy dialogue from E29, as well as a short end of Kyle and Mike goofing off on the beauty pageant set). The Pilot stuff I assume was in Lynch’s garage or something (like the W@H workprint and TMP), but why would he have a few random scenes from episodes he didn’t even direct sitting around? And why just those?

I was never disappointed but reading Frost's conversation book - it's a bit fucked up half of the creators doesn't know anything about Richard and Linda (opening and closing scenes of the season) ((the end of TP?))

mtl wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 7:30 am I was never disappointed but reading Frost's conversation book - it's a bit fucked up half of the creators doesn't know anything about Richard and Linda (opening and closing scenes of the season) ((the end of TP?))

Huh? Frost wrote the closing scene with Lynch. The one part he’s saying Lynch added was specifically the letter with the names Richard and Linda. When Coop is in the motel room. The Carrie Page stuff was all L/F as far as I’ve ever read.

Does that mean those names also weren't mentioned earlier in the script or they were but only connected to those characters via the letter later? Or the entire thing of those names was added?

I think the names “Richard and Linda” were entirely added. Again, just that specific bit. As far as I know, everything else in P18 was equally L/F. But Mark said he doesn’t know what Lynch meant by adding those names.

Also note that both Lynch and Frost have said that Lynch sent Frost all new script pages for approval. So Frost read the “Richard and Linda” scenes and approved them, even if he didn’t “get” them.

But were the names then added to the Coop/Fireman scene too - or had they already been mentioned there?

I believe the Coop/Fireman scene was all Lynch. I can’t remember if I’m actually basing that on anything I’ve read though, or if I’m just guessing.

The scene was also meant to be placed somewhere else (not sure where) and was not meant to be the opening scene. That, I’m sure I’ve read multiple places.

While we’re at it, there’s a deleted line from that scene you can hear (reversed) in the behind the scenes footage: “Beware the thirteenth sycamore.”

I wonder if it was shot then after the scenes - and change - in Part 18 to fit with them or if he took the names from that scene for P18.

Mr. Reindeer wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 6:36 am
I hated the Wally scene at first (and I like Cera and was fine with him being in the show!). It just felt like such a belabored bit, with an impression of a celebrity who’s been impersonated to death.

I like it now, though. Forster’s reaction shots make it for me more than anything else, but Cera is good too.

I'm profoundly disappointed that you hated it at first.

Just kidding. I didn't know what to think of almost anything I was seeing at first. And I was relieved any time I heard that other people thought something was good! The funny thing is that Cera got some pretty big press that week - it seemed like mainstream TV writers really ate that scene up.

But, I did have some concrete thoughts on that scene that existed outside of quality judgments. Such as: It comes directly after that Twin Peaks feeling is restored for the first time, with Bobby seeing Laura's picture and the theme playing. The appearance of Wally provides an almost disappointing whiplash experience that, with just a half hour left of the four-hour premiere night opening salvo, REALLY spelled out that anything could happen on this show. Despite so much else already happening, that was somehow the moment that signaled that you could not pin it down, I think, because it comes right after the series seems like its ready to click into gear. And then I immediately latched on to Wally's dialogue reflecting Frost's themes, so it seemed as random as it was purposeful to me, which is why I've always had trouble understanding the idea that it's a throwaway scene since it seems vital as part of the Americana tapestry. Oh, and the thought that it was an impression of a celebrity who's been impersonated to death never bothered me, because I figured that was kind of the point, which is why Cera simultaneously gives the most awful Brando impression ever and one of the best (he's doing Brando as Michael Cera playing the son of Andy and Lucy, rather than taking Michael Cera or Andy and Lucy out of the equation). So it was always something else for me. Interesting that you reference Forster's reactions because it's one of many instances in which a character deadpans as an audience surrogate, not knowing what to make of what they're seeing/hearing, which, as someone else here pointed out in another thread months ago (maybe Axxon?), is also a sign that what we're seeing is funny because it so thoroughly crosses the threshold of our awareness that it isn't that funny, at which point it becomes hilarious.

Jonah wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 8:07 am I wonder if it was shot then after the scenes - and change - in Part 18 to fit with them or if he took the names from that scene for P18.

The Fireman’s location was right at the end of location filming. I’m pretty sure the “letter”/motel scene was shot first and the Fireman scene was likely scripted later.

Mr. Reindeer wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 8:10 am

Jonah wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 8:07 am I wonder if it was shot then after the scenes - and change - in Part 18 to fit with them or if he took the names from that scene for P18.

The Fireman’s location was right at the end of location filming. I’m pretty sure the “letter”/motel scene was shot first and the Fireman scene was likely scripted later.

Interesting. Thanks. And also interesting that it almost seems like Lynch's attempt to give a more traditional ordering of scenes, by placing it first as a prologue with a mention of something that would be mentioned again in essentially the epilogue. It's a nice bit of structuring. Very traditional, not completely unlike MD, but more planned out.

LateReg wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 8:10 am Interesting that you reference Forster's reactions because it's one of many instances in which a character deadpans as an audience surrogate, not knowing what to make of what they're seeing/hearing, which, as someone else here pointed out in another thread months ago (maybe Axxon?), is also a sign that what we're seeing is funny because it so thoroughly crosses the threshold of our awareness that it isn't that funny, at which point it becomes hilarious.

Apropos of nothing, this reminds me of that season 2 scene when Andy is supposed to provide a sperm sample to Will in a deeply unfunny and misguided scene, and Will/Warren channels all of my annoyance and lack of amusement in his performance (“I’ll be in the car”), which in a way does almost make the scene funny. Never underestimate the value of the straight man!

my impression from The Conversations with Mark Frost book - is that between that July, 2015 draft and shooting in the fall, DL added the Richard and Linda names, or it's perhaps something he invented on the spot in the set. He's expressed frustration in the past that DL would have creamed corn for lunch and then bring it into the episode without it being in the script etc. DL isn't always the most fun partner, there are times when he must be a handful with the improvisation and split second changes and course corrections.

It's not a huge re-write though, I think the fireman uses the names once, and then they appear again when Kyle reads the note in the motel.
but he seems to still think he is Cooper and isn't identifying himself as Richard.

I think it works in a dreamy sorta way with the sex scene bringing back the trauma of Bad Cooper/rape, and Diane has some sorta realization that his dark side still part of him, and Richard being the name of the hell spawn son, it has sortof a dream logic sensibility to it.

It also kinda works for me in the intro scene, since the Giant was always chiding Cooper.

JackwithOneEye wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 8:16 am He's expressed frustration in the past that DL would have creamed corn for lunch and then bring it into the episode without it being in the script etc.

Really?! Cream corn is for sure in Harley Peyton’s script (although Lynch did change the scene around): http://www.glastonberrygrove.net/texts/script9.html

I have heard somewhere about Duwayne Dunham saying that the scene was moved to the intro from possibly later, but I dont think I've ever seen Duham directly quoted on saying that himself.

It was an interesting decision, I think Showtime prob lost a few hundred thousand viewers as it aired, I remember my aunt and uncle, who only watch mainstream fare, watched that scene and the shovel delivery, and like "how do you watch this shit ?" and turned it off.