Differing Views on The Return

Moderators: Brad D, Annie, Jonah, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne

Locked

To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Still profoundly disappointed - my feelings have not changed.
7
30%
More disappointed.
5
22%
No longer profoundly disappointed but still disappointed.
1
4%
No longer disappointed at all but still have mixed feelings about The Return.
1
4%
My feelings have softened but not sure what I think of it.
2
9%
I need to rewatch before I vote.
1
4%
I need to rewatch it before I vote here, but I think I'm still going to be very disappointed.
2
9%
I need to rewatch it before I vote here, but I think I'm still going to be somewhat but less disappointed.
0
No votes
I'm neutral.
0
No votes
I now like The Return, but still have some mixed feelings.
1
4%
I now love The Return completely.
1
4%
Other - explain in comments.
2
9%
 
Total votes: 23
User avatar
derOlli.
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:04 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by derOlli. »

If I were active on this forum when The Return was actually airing, I would have been more within the group of those having 'mixed feelings' about it. But I remember lurking in the Profoundly Disappointed thread a few times and found it to be - at the time that Season 3 was airing - the place on the internet with the most interesting and thought-provoking discussion. There was something about a very critical approach towards it that made the discussion more fruitful, which is probably why it attracted so many non-disappointed-members to come there again and again to discuss.

That said after some digesting, while at first I softened on some aspects of The Return, ultimately, I'm even more disappointed in it now, than I was back then. What first tainted the experience for me was the portrayal of women (and I know that this is an eye-roll topic for some of you, so I won't dwell on it here) but there was still stuff that I found conceptually interesting. When trying to re-assess my feeling towards Season 3; with time, I think some of the initial shock was gone and I could be more appreciative for some narrative aspects when I was knowing what I get myself into on rewatches. Then it also made me question what this meant, that I was tipping around forming an opinion on it (my enjoyment being that I found it "conceptually interesting" started to sound very vague to me). And with some distance, I became weary to make sense of it all and I accepted that I didn't have to force myself to dig deeper and deeper but that I could live with the fact that I was highkey annoyed with a large portion what was presented here.

I understand why L/F went for something different and didn't take the pure nostalgia route. I understand why the Cooper cliffhanger did not resolve neatly in the early 'Parts' of The Return. And - most importantly - I do understand that there are fascinating theories, interpretations, commentary on The Return that would explain the need for scenes that I didn't initially (and partly still don't) enjoy which may justify their existence.

The crux is, I just don't find the season compelling and that is where it has me disappointed even 4 years later. I love reading about meta-commentary and hidden meanings, but that all falls incredibly flat when actually rewatching the scenes and episodes and storylines and not enjoying them one bit. Sure it's fun to make sense of Wally and seeing him as some sort of analogy of 'Old Hollywood' or theorizing that he were not really Andy's son and so on and so forth but my fun with that is all taken away instantly, when I watch the actual scene and realize I do not care at all because I think that scene is not funny, really boring and actually a chore to get through.

What was quite eye opening for me was talking to some 'real-life' friends who actually really enjoyed the Mitchum brothers. I finally understood that it must be totally fun for them to watch that storyline and that I just had to accept that that wasn't me and it was never going to happen. I don't find them funny. I don't find them sympathetic. I don't find them exciting to watch in any way. It's great that others do, but I really don't.

I love that people love it. And it can be exciting for me to witness other people's excitement for it. Reading their commentary and hear their theories. But it never really changed my overall enjoyment of the season itself. Having read the most thought-provoking interpretation on a scene still didn't change how I was totally unphased rewatching what was actually there. So it was time for me to really really accept that this was just not for me.
User avatar
Brad D
Global Moderator
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:56 am
Contact:

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Brad D »

For me, as time passes, The Return just sours. Granted, I have not watched it since 2017 - the negatives continue to supersede the positives. The whole thing felt like a total slave to Lynch's whims. Listen, I'm glad he had total freedom to do whatever - but to revive a 25-year-old pop/cult product, you have to play some ball with the audience. I'm not talking fan service, I'm talking giving your audience something to invest in. I know some people love it, but for me, I think back on The Return and just think "what was the point?" I love a good story, and no character received a satisfying arc.

Mr. C is by far the most interesting character, and I loved how he was built up from the beginning. Especially with Ray and figuring out their dynamic. I really had few gripes after night 1. I was overwhelmed in a wonderful way. But the weeks kept going, I held on to faith, and by the end of 17, just felt like a mark. There just wasn't much to it for me. Great scenes along the way, absolutely! But, very little to string them together and make the whole package matter while looking back on it as a whole.

A lack of focus on the town and original characters and even Dale Cooper was not a huge dealbreaker for me. Just wanted a journey somewhere. So many cool seeds were planted in the first four hours. My ultimate ("profound") disappointment is they all failed to really blossom into anything. (Caveat - I dont really apply this to Pt. 18. It feels so separate from everything, I sort of take that one on its own. I wish that was Part 1.)
User avatar
enumbs
RR Diner Member
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by enumbs »

Brad D wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:52 am For me, as time passes, The Return just sours. Granted, I have not watched it since 2017 - the negatives continue to supersede the positives. The whole thing felt like a total slave to Lynch's whims. Listen, I'm glad he had total freedom to do whatever - but to revive a 25-year-old pop/cult product, you have to play some ball with the audience. I'm not talking fan service, I'm talking giving your audience something to invest in. I know some people love it, but for me, I think back on The Return and just think "what was the point?" I love a good story, and no character received a satisfying arc.

Mr. C is by far the most interesting character, and I loved how he was built up from the beginning. Especially with Ray and figuring out their dynamic. I really had few gripes after night 1. I was overwhelmed in a wonderful way. But the weeks kept going, I held on to faith, and by the end of 17, just felt like a mark. There just wasn't much to it for me. Great scenes along the way, absolutely! But, very little to string them together and make the whole package matter while looking back on it as a whole.

A lack of focus on the town and original characters and even Dale Cooper was not a huge dealbreaker for me. Just wanted a journey somewhere. So many cool seeds were planted in the first four hours. My ultimate ("profound") disappointment is they all failed to really blossom into anything. (Caveat - I dont really apply this to Pt. 18. It feels so separate from everything, I sort of take that one on its own. I wish that was Part 1.)
Surely the fact that it was so well-loved in some quarters indicates that they did play ball with the audience though? It was extremely critically well-received, and it frequently comes up in the conversation regarding the best TV shows ever (see the recent BBC list for a notable example). I was able to “invest” in it more than any other show I’ve watched, and you only need to check out the show’s page on Letterboxd to find new viewers who feel the same way.

I appreciate that it wasn’t for you, but I don’t think there’s any basis for saying the creators disrespected or neglected the audience. For those who loved it, the show was definitely “a journey somewhere”.
Last edited by enumbs on Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Brad D
Global Moderator
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:56 am
Contact:

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Brad D »

enumbs wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:18 am
Brad D wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:52 am For me, as time passes, The Return just sours. Granted, I have not watched it since 2017 - the negatives continue to supersede the positives. The whole thing felt like a total slave to Lynch's whims. Listen, I'm glad he had total freedom to do whatever - but to revive a 25-year-old pop/cult product, you have to play some ball with the audience. I'm not talking fan service, I'm talking giving your audience something to invest in. I know some people love it, but for me, I think back on The Return and just think "what was the point?" I love a good story, and no character received a satisfying arc.

Mr. C is by far the most interesting character, and I loved how he was built up from the beginning. Especially with Ray and figuring out their dynamic. I really had few gripes after night 1. I was overwhelmed in a wonderful way. But the weeks kept going, I held on to faith, and by the end of 17, just felt like a mark. There just wasn't much to it for me. Great scenes along the way, absolutely! But, very little to string them together and make the whole package matter while looking back on it as a whole.

A lack of focus on the town and original characters and even Dale Cooper was not a huge dealbreaker for me. Just wanted a journey somewhere. So many cool seeds were planted in the first four hours. My ultimate ("profound") disappointment is they all failed to really blossom into anything. (Caveat - I dont really apply this to Pt. 18. It feels so separate from everything, I sort of take that one on its own. I wish that was Part 1.)
Surely the fact that it was so well-loved in some quarters indicates that they did play ball with the audience though? It was extremely critically well-received, and it frequently comes up in the conversation regarding the best TV shows ever (see the recent BBC list for a notable example). I was able to “invest” in it more than any other show I’ve watched, and you only need to check out the show’s page on Letterboxd to find new viewers who feel the same way.

I appreciate that it wasn’t for you, but I don’t think there’s any basis for saying the creators disrespected o neglected the audience. For those who loved it, the show was definitely a “journey somewhere”.
you know what, you're right! Twin Peaks The Return was loved by all, except me and a few disgruntled posters in this thread. Case closed, folks!
User avatar
enumbs
RR Diner Member
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by enumbs »

Brad D wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:22 am you know what, you're right! Twin Peaks The Return was loved by all, except me and a few disgruntled posters in this thread. Case closed, folks!
Why are you being sarcastic? I didn’t claim that the show was universally loved or that your opinion was in any way unreasonable. Your response to the show is obviously totally valid, and you justify your opinion in a fair way.

All I disagreed with was the notion that the creators didn’t play fair with the audience, citing the fact that a decent contingent of the audience liked and even loved it. There’s no reason to get snippy with me.
User avatar
Brad D
Global Moderator
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:56 am
Contact:

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Brad D »

Enumbs, why are you even in the profoundly disappointed thread? You undercut my opinion by saying it’s universally loved on letterbox, which I don’t appreciate nor care about. Would appreciate you just ignoring my posts. Let myself and others gripe about the Return in peace. I’m ignoring you now. Good day.
User avatar
enumbs
RR Diner Member
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by enumbs »

I haven’t done anything wrong here. There has never been a rule about people who like the show being banned from this thread - I certainly wouldn’t want people who disliked the show being banned from the more positive threads. I don’t understand why you are once again taking friendly debate as a personal attack.

You said that Lynch and Frost did not play ball with the audience, and specified that this is because they didn’t give the viewers anything to invest in. I argued that this point doesn’t make sense, because there are patently plenty of viewers who did find a lot to invest in. That was why I referenced Letterboxd - not to undercut your personal opinion, but to illustrate that many viewers were happy to play ball on the Return’s terms.

It is true that the creators were not able to make a show which EVERY viewer was able to invest in, but by this metric all shows fail to “play ball” with their audience.

I think what you are really saying is that Lynch and Frost failed to make a show which YOU were able to invest in. This is fine, but I don’t think it’s fair to extend your reaction to some sweeping observation about their treatment of the audience as a whole.
User avatar
Brad D
Global Moderator
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:56 am
Contact:

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Brad D »

I didn’t say you’re banned from any thread, I’m saying it makes no sense to purposefully troll the disappointed threads with reasons we are wrong. I’ve got no interest in debating this further with you.
User avatar
AXX°N N.
Great Northern Member
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by AXX°N N. »

Brad D wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:15 pm You undercut my opinion by saying it’s universally loved on letterbox, which I don’t appreciate nor care about.
Sorry to butt in, but that's not at all what they said.

It's true this is all subjective--but I think when you veer outside the subjective into declaring fact (ie, "you have to play ball with the audience") it's fair for others to rebut it or find the premise false or the implication fallacious.

Compare to derOlli's post at the top of the page, which is extremely well-reasoned and separates the subjective from a more objective generalization like "because I wasn't immersed, the intention of the creators was to disregard the audience." The number of expository & explanatory scenes, which to me was surprising for late-career Lynch, points in the opposite direction. Besides, I think avoiding exposition or experimenting with gaps in information is still done with the audience firmly in mind, anyway, but that's a whole different matter.

Negative or positive opinions aside, technicalities and semantics are technicalities and semantics.
Recipe not my own. In a coffee cup. 3 TBS flour, 2 TBS sugar, 1.5 TBS cocoa powder, .25 TSP baking powder, pinch of salt. 3 TBS milk, 1.5 TBS vegetable oil, 1 TBS peanut butter. Add and mix each set. Microwave 1 minute 10 seconds. The cup will be hot.
User avatar
Brad D
Global Moderator
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:56 am
Contact:

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Brad D »

AXX°N N. wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:52 pm
Brad D wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:15 pm You undercut my opinion by saying it’s universally loved on letterbox, which I don’t appreciate nor care about.
Sorry to butt in, but that's not at all what they said.

It's true this is all subjective--but I think when you veer outside the subjective into declaring fact (ie, "you have to play ball with the audience") it's fair for others to rebut it or find the premise false or the implication fallacious.

Compare to derOlli's post at the top of the page, which is extremely well-reasoned and separates the subjective from a more objective generalization like "because I wasn't immersed, the intention of the creators was to disregard the audience." The number of expository & explanatory scenes, which to me was surprising for late-career Lynch, points in the opposite direction. Besides, I think avoiding exposition or experimenting with gaps in information is still done with the audience firmly in mind, anyway, but that's a whole different matter.

Negative or positive opinions aside, technicalities and semantics are technicalities and semantics.
My post was totally out of line—Lynch and Frost owed us nothing in hindsight, least of all more Twin Peaks with fifteen minutes of agent Dale Cooper (?). Sometimes it’s easy to forget that The Return was undoubtedly universally unequivocally loved by all who watched it except for myself and a couple of others who could not appreciate this infallible brilliance and just wanted pie and coffee and fully developed soap opera storylines instead. Excuse my shortsightedness on this matter, in this thread particularly. I’ll try to suppress it down the line!
User avatar
enumbs
RR Diner Member
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by enumbs »

Brad D wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:33 pm
AXX°N N. wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:52 pm
Brad D wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:15 pm You undercut my opinion by saying it’s universally loved on letterbox, which I don’t appreciate nor care about.
Sorry to butt in, but that's not at all what they said.

It's true this is all subjective--but I think when you veer outside the subjective into declaring fact (ie, "you have to play ball with the audience") it's fair for others to rebut it or find the premise false or the implication fallacious.

Compare to derOlli's post at the top of the page, which is extremely well-reasoned and separates the subjective from a more objective generalization like "because I wasn't immersed, the intention of the creators was to disregard the audience." The number of expository & explanatory scenes, which to me was surprising for late-career Lynch, points in the opposite direction. Besides, I think avoiding exposition or experimenting with gaps in information is still done with the audience firmly in mind, anyway, but that's a whole different matter.

Negative or positive opinions aside, technicalities and semantics are technicalities and semantics.
My post was totally out of line—Lynch and Frost owed us nothing in hindsight, least of all more Twin Peaks with fifteen minutes of agent Dale Cooper (?). Sometimes it’s easy to forget that The Return was undoubtedly universally unequivocally loved by all who watched it except for myself and a couple of others who could not appreciate this infallible brilliance and just wanted pie and coffee and fully developed soap opera storylines instead. Excuse my shortsightedness on this matter, in this thread particularly. I’ll try to suppress it down the line!
You keep responding to a straw man. Nobody said that everyone loved the show or that your criticisms aren’t legitimate. Why do you keep on replying to things that weren’t said?

All AXX°N N and I have said is that your comments about Lynch/Frost not playing fair is based on a personal metric, not on the audience’s as a whole.

It is fair to say that the show lacks an active protagonist driven by clearly defined goals, and that this turned off a significant number of viewers. I agree! But the claim that ‪Lynch failed to play ball with the audience by ‬neglecting to give them something to invest in is simply not true - many viewers did find things to invest in, a fact which shows your standards of “playing ball” are ultimately subjective.

It is not reasonable to feel so aggrieved by people pointing this out, or to label such responses as “trolling”.

I am not attacking you. I wouldn’t want to insult you. I bought your Peaks book on Kindle and enjoyed it very much. Your criticism of The Return is perfectly fair and interesting to read. That said, I do take issue when you:

A) Claim people who love the Return are Lynch sycophants who mindlessly praise everything he does. This is no better than claiming critics of the show are nostalgia obsessed simpletons.

B) Say that Lynch/Frost betrayed the audience or failed by some other objective metric. The fact is that many people loved the show just as many people hated it, so we have to accept our perspectives are subjective.

C) Act like you’ve been personally insulted every time somebody disagrees with your criticisms of the show.

The third particularly irks me, because as AXX°N N has said “countered opinion is the lifeblood of discussion”. I don’t see why you would respond to politely worded disagreements with sarcasm or statements such as “I’m done debating this”, “I refuse to engage in more nastiness,” and “I will now be ignoring you”. It’s needlessly thin-skinned and hostile.
User avatar
Jasper
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Jasper »

Hey, one thing we can probably all agree upon is that it was a missed opportunity to not name the original Profoundly Disappointed thread:


Invitation to Hate
ITL.jpg
ITL.jpg (7.63 KiB) Viewed 4865 times
User avatar
AXX°N N.
Great Northern Member
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:47 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by AXX°N N. »

Brad D wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:33 pm My post was totally out of line—Lynch and Frost owed us nothing in hindsight, least of all more Twin Peaks with fifteen minutes of agent Dale Cooper (?). Sometimes it’s easy to forget that The Return was undoubtedly universally unequivocally loved by all who watched it except for myself and a couple of others who could not appreciate this infallible brilliance and just wanted pie and coffee and fully developed soap opera storylines instead. Excuse my shortsightedness on this matter, in this thread particularly. I’ll try to suppress it down the line!
You've made it impossible to respond to this without feeling diminished and ridiculous, but:

What one person feels they're owed would disappoint someone else & vice verse. I think it's unfair to frame Lynch & Frost as failing to regard the audience because they neglected a chunk of it--as if the chunk they neglected is more valuable or deserving, or understands the original in the only correct way. I get the impression from your posts over time that you see little or no overlap between those who like what S3 is doing and those who appreciated what the original was in a valid way. To me that's wrong, and I feel like the venn diagram is a circle, but that's just my POV. Your opinions are reasoned and obviously warranted, but they become ungrounded when you make viewers out to be a monolith or suggest that the side you perceive as opposite yours is fundamentally less deserving than you to have their narrative preferences met, or claim not to be arguing in the same good faith as you. That's unfair regardless of if your appraisal is positive or negative.
Recipe not my own. In a coffee cup. 3 TBS flour, 2 TBS sugar, 1.5 TBS cocoa powder, .25 TSP baking powder, pinch of salt. 3 TBS milk, 1.5 TBS vegetable oil, 1 TBS peanut butter. Add and mix each set. Microwave 1 minute 10 seconds. The cup will be hot.
User avatar
derOlli.
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:04 pm

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by derOlli. »

I mostly agree with the notion that "countered opinion is the lifeblood of discussion" and I have expressed as much in my former post. What I will say about this though, that there are reasons why it can be at times a little difficult to discuss Season 3 with people who loved it (which is why the Profoundly Disappointed Group was formed in the first place, I suppose).
A reason why some felt so profoundly disappinted in the first place was, that they felt The Return had been handled wrong and those who really enjoyed it will obviously not feel the same way and push back.

I do feel like some aspects are probably better shared between those who are disappointed. That disappointment does go beyond a need for "fan service". How The Return felt like it sometimes disregarded the world that had been built. How it felt like it wasn't sympathetic towards the characters of the OG seasons. How it felt like it resented its audience (not only fans of seasons 1-2 but the viewership in general; it felt like it tried to make a point of what an audience wants and then subvert it). And the discussions at the time when The Return aired didn't help at all. "Oh you want nostalgia? You want cheesy soap opera instead of REAL ART? You want something but you can't get it? Well that's THE POINT! You're just don't GET IT". (I bring this up only, because I do think it still plays a role in how those who were disappointed and those who were not communicate with each other)

Granted, this was not the point that was made. The point was that the criticism whether The Return "played ball with the audience" was fair, if other fans did enjoy it.
It's is kind of random, but incidentally I listened to Brad and Scott Ryan talk about Season 3 in the "Red Room" Podcast the other day and an argument that was made was that if a director signed on to make a Bond movie just to then decide not to put James Bond in it and not refer to the "shaken not stirred"-whatever-quote and disregard most of what is established for the franchise, it would seem like the director didn't really want to do a James Bond movie anyway and the motives why they signed on would be called into question. People, of course, could enjoy the movie regardless
but those fans who would be upset with this could rightfully feel disregarded in their investment for what the franchise had originally been. Or to go to an even further extreme, take a beloved franchise and switch genres entirely. Take a horror movie and continue it with a fluffy kids movie. There could still be a portion within a fandom who would enjoy the (dis-)continuation (especially if the enjoyed the new genre that was now presented anyways), but others would be rightfully upset.
Some of the Profoundly Disappointed to a certain degree feel like this happened here (not the genre switching, but disregarding what was there and not really engaging with the core audience). Responding to this by saying: "Well other fans enjoyed it" can feel like undercutting a (reasonable) argument while also coming across a little... pointed. It's as if others are saying, if other fans enjoyed it, the disappointment can't be about the material, "it must be about you!"

I don't think that this was, what was said here (and AXX°N N. also makes a very fair argument in his latest post about neither ""side"" being more deserving than the other; I very much agree), but I say that this is how those who feel profoundly disappointed can sometimes perceive the pushback.

Like I said, The Return sadly wasn't for me. It wasn't for Brad either. Of couse it didn't have to be for us and it's nice that other people enjoyed it. Well, it certainly would have been nice for us if we would have enjoyed it. And that disappointment can feel very personal.
User avatar
Brad D
Global Moderator
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:56 am
Contact:

Re: To the Profoundly Disappointed: Are You Still Disappointed?

Post by Brad D »

Derolli summed it up pretty succinctly. My feelings about the Return are complex. I don’t hate it. Definitely don’t love it. It is almost like a very strained relationship with a person. That sounds ridiculous because it is a tv show after all, no more.

Over time, it has felt like it’s increasingly hard to discuss the Return because many people staunchly defend it in absolutist ways, treating it as high art that is above something more pragmatic or commercial—and I’m just kind of tired of dealing with those people. I absolutely understand why people love it, I see certain qualities, an invitation for endless theory and possibility — but I also feel like Lynch has certain contempt for TP, which is pretty blatant in the final product. I forgot about the James Bond reasoning, and still feel that’s applicable.

Aside from the folks who have rated TR high on letterbox, I truly do wonder how the series resonates outside the core fan base and the critical world. I’ve yet to meet many in that realm that finished the Return, which is a bummer, because I love discussing it, for all my annoyances with it. And as I’ve said before many times, there are plenty of great moments - yet when dealing with many on here, that’s not enough. Literally had people say I’m not a fan :lol Just my experience.
Locked