Why so little of Grace Zabriskie?

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4815162342
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Re: Why so little of Grace Zabriskie?

Post by 4815162342 »

For that type of character, the more you see them, the less mysterious/scary they are. It's like asking why we didn't see Bob more.
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mtwentz
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Re: Why so little of Grace Zabriskie?

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AXX°N N. wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:19 am Toss my hat into the "just enough" pile; her scenes are among my favorite of the season. She really nailed what they were asking of her given where that character is at. And what they show are all scenes that indicate she's in a pattern of behavior, so in a sense it instructs us on what she does off-screen and what she's been doing for 25 years. It's unnerving to leave it to imagination; just like the Jumping Man is skulking around at any given moment, Sarah is on a couch in screen glow, rapt at a felled prey animal.
I tend to agree, though there is a part of me that wants that one last scene at the end.

'The door opens. Sarah Palmer sees the resurrected Laura Palmer. She shrieks, pulls off her face to show the darkness beneath. Carrie Paige suddenly remembers who she is and why she was sent to Earth. Before Sarah can make another move, Carrie/Laura pulls over her own face revealing the light beneath. The light envelops the darkness behind Sarah's face. A shriek is heard at Judy leaves Sarah's body and floats to the ethereal realms from whence she/it came...mother and daughter embrace. All is right in the world!'

Sounds corny, doesn't it :-) But still, I'd be lying if a part of me didn't hunger for that confrontation that never happened.
F*&^ you Gene Kelly
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Jonah
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Re: Why so little of Grace Zabriskie?

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Before I clicked into this, I thought the title referred to S1 and S2, for some reason The Return didn't cross my mind - so it just goes to show how little she was used in the original show too (after Laura's murder was resolved at least, until 29, and even sporadically before that). But, yes, of course - she was way way underused in The Return, though at least she got a little more than Ray Wise's one two-word line "Find Laura" which was repeated twice. THAT was criminally underused. Even Sheryl Lee wasn't used nearly as much as I would have liked. Granted, those other two characters are dead, but I still expected more of them - I feel Lynch used them better together in the featurette Between Two Worlds than in the new series.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Jasper
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Re: Why so little of Grace Zabriskie?

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Jonah wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:41 am she was way way underused in The Return, though at least she got a little more than Ray Wise's one two-word line "Find Laura" which was repeated twice.
Well, honestly, she got more than a just little bit more. She got massively more than poor Ray Wise's few seconds of screen time and two measly words. There's nothing wrong with his appearance and those words per se, but that this was all we saw of him was quite surprising at the time. Who would have thought the Between Two Worlds short from TMP would provide a far meatier role for Ray than the subsequent 18-hour Lynch/Frost Twin Peaks extravaganza? Ray Wise has openly voiced his dislike of the Return, and his extremely limited participation is likely to be at least a part of that. Grace, on the other hand, got a chance to really act it up, even if it wasn’t the biggest of roles.

It would be very interesting to watch all of the Sarah Palmer scenes edited together in order as a standalone piece. Imagine if the Return had never been a thing, then one day Lynch/Frost released just that as a little Sarah Palmer short film right out of the blue. We’d have had a whole lot to talk about.

We might also imagine the Sarah Palmer scenes as part of a feature-length Twin Peaks film, where they wouldn’t seem so sparsely distributed.

I think that as far as appreciating the material, it can be helpful to examine things from these types of angles.
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mtwentz
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Re: Why so little of Grace Zabriskie?

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Jasper wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:32 am
Jonah wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:41 am she was way way underused in The Return, though at least she got a little more than Ray Wise's one two-word line "Find Laura" which was repeated twice.
Well, honestly, she got more than a just little bit more. She got massively more than poor Ray Wise's few seconds of screen time and two measly words. There's nothing wrong with his appearance and those words per se, but that this was all we saw of him was quite surprising at the time. Who would have thought the Between Two Worlds short from TMP would provide a far meatier role for Ray than the subsequent 18-hour Lynch/Frost Twin Peaks extravaganza? Ray Wise has openly voiced his dislike of the Return, and his extremely limited participation is likely to be at least a part of that. Grace, on the other hand, got a chance to really act it up, even if it wasn’t the biggest of roles.

It would be very interesting to watch all of the Sarah Palmer scenes edited together in order as a standalone piece. Imagine if the Return had never been a thing, then one day Lynch/Frost released just that as a little Sarah Palmer short film right out of the blue. We’d have had a whole lot to talk about.

We might also imagine the Sarah Palmer scenes as part of a feature-length Twin Peaks film, where they wouldn’t seem so sparsely distributed.

I think that as far as appreciating the material, it can be helpful to examine things from these types of angles.
I'll go back to my personal theory of why Ray Wise was 'underused', somewhat related to why Annie was barely mentioned and why Earle was not mentioned at all:

The story was reset to having Sarah/Judy as the main antagonist. Putting Leland front and center would detract from that.

I believe that is the reason Leland could not have a larger role. Not because Frost or Lynch felt like shafting Wise (although there has been a poster here who claims Frost had something against Wise; I personally would need more evidence to believe that story).
F*&^ you Gene Kelly
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Jonah
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Re: Why so little of Grace Zabriskie?

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I think I must have meant to say "a lot", not "a little". :) But, yeah, you're right she did get way more than he got even if she still didn't get enough. Still seems weird to me, not to mention a bit insulting. A one day cameo is fair enough, but two words total? I don't even know why Ray Wise bothered to show up for that. It could have easily been accomplished with archive footage and you're right he got a lot more to do in the featurette. It's like they just didn't know what to do with him - but they'd already decided the character existed in the red room, they had the actor there at hand, why not improvise a bit or give him some of the lines of the other people in the Red Room. Even a few scenes with him speaking gobbledygook or intriguing dialogue and grinning eerily would have fleshed out his role a bit more. Perhaps Sarah could have started seeing Leland's guise around town too, something like that. Might have been too conventional for Lynch but, done right, could have been very intriguing.

Btw, Mtwentz, I agree - I would have liked some kind of confrontation at the door too. Not necessarily the face coming off part - but I had hoped Cooper was bringing Laura home to Sarah in that scene. When I first saw the filming of it, I think I assumed - as a lot of people did - that it would happen early on, and the thought of the new series featuring the resurrected iconic dead character of the original series was intriguing - I thought a part of the plot would be about that and how the town reacted to it. Or that Laura was Judy, the red-haired she was rumoured to play had there been a Season 3 back in the day.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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mtwentz
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Re: Why so little of Grace Zabriskie?

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Jonah wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:05 am I don't even know why Ray Wise bothered to show up for that. It could have easily been accomplished with archive footage and you're right he got a lot more to do in the featurette. It's like they just didn't know what to do with him - but they'd already decided the character existed in the red room, they had the actor there at hand, why not improvise a bit or give him some of the lines of the other people in the Red Room. Even a few scenes with him speaking gobbledygook or intriguing dialogue and grinning eerily would have fleshed out his role a bit more. Perhaps Sarah could have started seeing Leland's guise around town too, something like that. Might have been too conventional for Lynch but, done right, could have been very intriguing.
So we had two different 'theories' on why Ray Wise wasn't used more. One poster who is quite well known here said two words: David Lynch

The other poster on Dugpa stated this: "I saw people blaming David for not including Leland so I wanted to add my two cents. I met Ray Wise at a recent con and he had some very clear feelings on Mark Frost, especially his books. Let's just say... he's not a fan. I made a comment that I wish he was in it more and I'm pretty sure he more or less blamed Mark for it. I have a video my friend took of me talking to him that I definitely don't want to share publicly. I'll review it though."
F*&^ you Gene Kelly
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Jonah
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Re: Why so little of Grace Zabriskie?

Post by Jonah »

Great post mtwentz.

The Ray Wise posts are staying here as the two topics are similar and related. However, for those who want to read more about Wise/Leland in TPTR in particular, there is another thread linked below. (Similar conversation was sparked recently in the Season 4 thread hence the new posts.)

Link: http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 50#p132550
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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