Is the doppelgänger looking for the White Lodge? (SPOILERS)

[somevelvetmorning]

So, the biggest mystery for me so far, is trying to figure out what it is that Coopers Doppelgänger is planning. I keep telling myself to just go along for the ride, but after each episode my curiosity has doubled, so here I am again.

What we do know so far, is that Bad Cooper (BC, from now on) is looking for some information. Not something that he NEEDS though, but something that he WANTS. This information will be given to Ray, and Ray only (which BC comments on as being funny). The person that will provide Ray with the information, is the secretary of a certain Hastings. BC, also says that he "better be able to trust that information", to which Ray responds that she is Hastings secretary, and she knows what he knows. So, the information that BC wants, is something that Hasting knows. The only male Hastings, we have been introduced to so far, is William Hastings, a high school principal.

On to the scene with BC and Darya, in the motel. When BC is questioning her, he asks if Ray has gotten the information, and if he has mentioned geographical coordinates to her. He then proceeds to show her the playing card, with the symbol resembling the owl cave symbol on it, saying that is what he wants.

So, BC is looking for a certain place, where that thing on the card will be found, and the person that can provide the information to where that place is, is a high school principal.

William Hastings is currently under arrest for the murder of a woman (Ruth Davenport) he was apparently having an affair with. He claims to have had a dream where he was in her apartment on the night of the murder, but insists that he wasn't there for real. The last thing we see of him, is him sitting in his cell. The camera then pans to another cell, where we see a person (possibly spirit), completely black, before it disappears and its head float upwards.

It seems as if William Hastings is being set up for the murder by BC, since he has been using Mrs Hastings, and now also seems to set up the lawyer by shooting Mrs Hastings with the lawyers gun.

But why put away Hastings in jail? And why can't BC himself get the information from Hastings (or the secretary), since he seems to have no problems getting other kinds of information (like the wardens Mr Strawberry)?

My theory here is that BC is looking for the location of the White Lodge. William Hastings and/or Ruth Davenport, could have been possessed by spirits from the White Lodge and that is why BC can't get the information he wants directly from them.

If we go back to season 2, episode 13, "Checkmate". It's after Major Briggs have returned after being abducted, and we see him sitting on a throne in the woods. In the original script to the season 2 finale, a throne was also featured. A throne on which Windom Earle wanted to sit, while offering Coopers good soul to the Black Lodge, in order to harness the powers of the lodge.

So could it be that Major Briggs, had harnessed some power from the White Lodge, and BC is now using Briggs' body in some sort of ritual, in order to find the White Lodge? If there has been 16 searches for Briggs' fingerprints during the last 25 years, that indicates that BC has used Briggs before, in some way.

[KyleRickards]

So, the biggest mystery for me so far, is trying to figure out what it is that Coopers Doppelgänger is planning. I keep telling myself to just go along for the ride, but after each episode my curiosity has doubled, so here I am again.

What we do know so far, is that Bad Cooper (BC, from now on) is looking for some information. Not something that he NEEDS though, but something that he WANTS. This information will be given to Ray, and Ray only (which BC comments on as being funny). The person that will provide Ray with the information, is the secretary of a certain Hastings. BC, also says that he "better be able to trust that information", to which Ray responds that she is Hastings secretary, and she knows what he knows. So, the information that BC wants, is something that Hasting knows. The only male Hastings, we have been introduced to so far, is William Hastings, a high school principal.

On to the scene with BC and Darya, in the motel. When BC is questioning her, he asks if Ray has gotten the information, and if he has mentioned geographical coordinates to her. He then proceeds to show her the playing card, with the symbol resembling the owl cave symbol on it, saying that is what he wants.

So, BC is looking for a certain place, where that thing on the card will be found, and the person that can provide the information to where that place is, is a high school principal.

William Hastings is currently under arrest for the murder of a woman (Ruth Davenport) he was apparently having an affair with. He claims to have had a dream where he was in her apartment on the night of the murder, but insists that he wasn't there for real. The last thing we see of him, is him sitting in his cell. The camera then pans to another cell, where we see a person (possibly spirit), completely black, before it disappears and its head float upwards.

It seems as if William Hastings is being set up for the murder by BC, since he has been using Mrs Hastings, and now also seems to set up the lawyer by shooting Mrs Hastings with the lawyers gun.

But why put away Hastings in jail? And why can't BC himself get the information from Hastings (or the secretary), since he seems to have no problems getting other kinds of information (like the wardens Mr Strawberry)?

My theory here is that BC is looking for the location of the White Lodge. William Hastings and/or Ruth Davenport, could have been possessed by spirits from the White Lodge and that is why BC can't get the information he wants directly from them.

If we go back to season 2, episode 13, "Checkmate". It's after Major Briggs have returned after being abducted, and we see him sitting on a throne in the woods. In the original script to the season 2 finale, a throne was also featured. A throne on which Windom Earle wanted to sit, while offering Coopers good soul to the Black Lodge, in order to harness the powers of the lodge.

So could it be that Major Briggs, had harnessed some power from the White Lodge, and BC is now using Briggs' body in some sort of ritual, in order to find the White Lodge? If there has been 16 searches for Briggs' fingerprints during the last 25 years, that indicates that BC has used Briggs before, in some way.

This is a great summary of things so far and I think you could be onto something


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[Gabriel]

Hastings gets sent to Evil Coop's prison...

[somevelvetmorning]

This is a great summary of things so far and I think you could be onto something


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thank you and I hope so! I think it works pretty well with the first scene we see with Cooper and the giant as well.

In that scene Cooper is not wearing his badge, indicating that it takes place after Cooper is back in our world. Since the giant has always come off as a benevolent being, I would say he belongs in the White Lodge. So, “It is in our house now.”, suggesting that something has entered the White Lodge. Something that does not belong there.

[somevelvetmorning]

Hastings gets sent to Evil Coop's prison...

Not unlikely at all. Bad Cooper seems to be one step ahead of everything that happens, so that could be a back up plan he had been orchestrating.

I get the feeling that the black being we see in the jail cell, is a good spirit. When it disappears, it is seen slowly floating up, towards heaven, and despite its appearance it comes off as peaceful. Maybe it is Hastings guardian angel, and if he was tricked or somehow made to actually commit the murder of Ruth Davenport, that would be enough for his guardian angel to leave him, thus allowing Bad Cooper to extract the wanted information from him.

[Gabriel]

I would say he belongs in the White Lodge. So, “It is in our house now.”, suggesting that something has entered the White Lodge. Something that does not belong there.

Yeah, someone as intelligent as Coop, turned evil, would effectively be Windom Earlex10. Indeed, maybe Earle sacrificed himself to unleash the evil Coop.

[Mairzy]

I do really like this theory. Only problem is with the playing card that ECoop shows Daria. Why would that card look so sinister and evil if it was supposed to represent the white lodge?

[somevelvetmorning]

I do really like this theory. Only problem is with the playing card that ECoop shows Daria. Why would that card look so sinister and evil if it was supposed to represent the white lodge?

I guess one possible explanation could be that that's the way he sees it. Windom Earle seemed to find the White Lodge to be a despicable place, so perhaps Bad Cooper is even more disgusted by it.

Not sure if it has been pointed out earlier, but the playing card is an ace of spades, which apparently symbolises 'death' but also, 'transformation'.

If the playing card indeed is meant to show the owl cave symbol, and the "body" part looks kind of scribbled over (along with the scratch marks, indicating perhaps anger), maybe that is his hateful way of drawing the thing he wants destroyed or transformed.

[LurkerAtTheThreshold]

Fascinating theory, that has a lot of weight.

I think Frost and Lynch are building to a kind of mirroring of the first series. A lot of the plots in this season --tie to Season 2 and or FWWM. Hastings and wife is obviously reminiscent of Ben Horne in jail and Catherine Martell Gloating. Becky Briggs has a Laura Bobby FWWM parallel, the glass box is like the box that leads to the bank explosion.

Coopers Ace of spades is a mirror to Windom Earles royal card game-- so it would be fitting if, as the second season plot mostly revolved around Windows quest to find the black lodge, if this season begun with Mr Cs quest to find the white lodge.

I personally believe that the Windom Earle's soul inside Coopers doppelgänger theory has weight. When Mr C looks at himself in the mirror and sees Bob he says 'good you're still WITH me'. But if Bob is WITH Mr C, then who IS Mr C? We assume he's not Agent Coopers soul because cooper appears to be inhabiting Dougie now.

Then there is the Bonzai tree in New York, Windoms computer case and other factors which point to Windows soul being inside the doppelgänger.

What if Windom Earle found the black lodge, where his soul was angilated by Bob, but he managed to escape in the form of Coopers doppelgänger, now he is paranoid about being pulled back to the black lodge and trying to find the white lodge????

[somevelvetmorning]

A little update,

I found some similarities between the scene with Briggs in the throne, in season 2, and the scene with the giant and Cooper in season 3, which I see as indications that they both depict the white lodge.

- Briggs is surrounded by trees in the throne.

- The floor in the giant/Cooper scene, appears to be roots or vines, and there is a leaf/branch pattern on the chairs.

But then i also stumbled upon something else in the scene in the convenience store in FWWM (hope the screenshots are not too dark).

[Saturn's child]

But then i also stumbled upon something else in the scene in the convenience store in FWWM (hope the screenshots are not too dark).

Good catch! Good username too, I love that song.

[Ragnell]

A little update,

I found some similarities between the scene with Briggs in the throne, in season 2, and the scene with the giant and Cooper in season 3, which I see as indications that they both depict the white lodge.

- Briggs is surrounded by trees in the throne.

- The floor in the giant/Cooper scene, appears to be roots or vines, and there is a leaf/branch pattern on the chairs.

But then i also stumbled upon something else in the scene in the convenience store in FWWM (hope the screenshots are not too dark).

Oh, that's a great catch. Right now we have indications the Black Lodge spirits are associated with fire, electricity and technology. The White Lodge spirits might be associated with Earth and natural elements. If the couch is the indication you suggest and the Tremonds are White Lodge spirits then it explains the boy's line in the scene. Their presence could have been to act as arbiters in the Black Lodge dispute between BOB and MIKE. That'd explain why its the boy who says "Fell a victim." That'd be the judgment. It would also explain Mrs Tremond's aversion to creamed corn in the series and their helpfulness to Laura and Donna.

[somevelvetmorning]

Good catch! Good username too, I love that song.

It truly is a beautiful song. My Lee and Nancy favourite, along with "Sand".

Oh, that's a great catch. Right now we have indications the Black Lodge spirits are associated with fire, electricity and technology. The White Lodge spirits might be associated with Earth and natural elements. If the couch is the indication you suggest and the Tremonds are White Lodge spirits then it explains the boy's line in the scene. Their presence could have been to act as arbiters in the Black Lodge dispute between BOB and MIKE. That'd explain why its the boy who says "Fell a victim." That'd be the judgment. It would also explain Mrs Tremond's aversion to creamed corn in the series and their helpfulness to Laura and Donna.

Yes, it would really go along with the behaviour of the Tremonds if they are indeed White Lodge spirits. Also, the only ones we see leaving the meeting room for the Black Lodge, are BOB and MFAP/MIKE. What if ALL the other participants are spirits from the White Lodge?

Makes me wonder if there could be more than a dispute over garmonbozia going on in that scene.