World of Blue - Archived Forum 2007-2022

JackwithOneEye wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:43 am I like the idea of Leland being alive in an Odessaverse. If Laura just disappeared, then he possibly went and did other murders etc, wasnt caught. It could have been a great story arc with lots of storytelling opportunities.

That sounds like a great idea.

explain to me how ray wise knew about season 3 way before anyone, all while having two lines of dialogue!

that is the most twin peaks of a mystery

And those two lines were just two words repeated twice (I'm still annoyed about that!).

Maybe Lynch said to them during the "Between Two Worlds" featurette that he was thinking about doing more. I think they had a conversation where he told them he'd bring him back and not to worry about his character being dead - but not sure if that was before or after Season 3 was decided on.

yup, I'm just saying, for how secretive everything was, Ray being the initial leak (with a very small part) is crazy to me

I was thinking about that too after I first watched TR and wondered if he knew less than the cryptic statement would suggest and just struck lucky.

But I'm guess that's not the case.

Brad D wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:13 pm explain to me how ray wise knew about season 3 way before anyone, all while having two lines of dialogue!

that is the most twin peaks of a mystery

At the Orange County Museum of Modern Arts’ annual “Art of Dining” gala on May 17 2013, David Lynch was honored for his important impact on the art world. Twin Peaks cast members Mädchen Amick and Lara Flynn Boyle attended the gala, and Ray Wise sat down with the director for several hours talking about “everything under the sun“. Including, yes, the possibility of a sequel to Twin Peaks.

https://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/dav ... win-peaks/

I guess they just sat down and casually talked for hours, and Lynch let slip a little.

Big fat giant sarcastic shrug on the Ray Wise front. It's funny each time that I think that scar has finally healed, the weather turns cold and it aches.

- Mordeen

Mordeen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:27 pm Big fat giant sarcastic shrug on the Ray Wise front. It's funny each time that I think that scar has finally healed, the weather turns cold and it aches.

- Mordeen

I find his two scenes emotionally quite powerful, and I'm actually satisfied with his role in the third season. I don't think there was any need for a larger role.

The only thing I don't really understand is why is he there at all? As I understand it, we see Leland's doppelgänger in the Black Lodge in episode 29, but why would real Leland - and it feels like real Leland to me - be there in The Return? (This might be quite a lame question from a big fan like me, but there it is. There are a lot of things in Twin Peaks I still don't understand.)

Agreed. I'm not sure how he'd possibly fit in for a larger role. And even if they did find a way, it seems a bit gratuitous for a character that caused so much pain and whose arc was completed then turned back over itself to become a circle.

Him being reduced to such a pathetic rump nothingness of a man in the Red Room gave him pathos to add to the many contradictory traits expressed throughout S1+2 and FWWM.

I never got the feeling that the punishment of Leland as a character in TR extended to injustice towards the actor.

I'm being slightly hypocritical given how I think it was harsh to not accommodate a single cutaway cameo for Laurie (and a lesser extent Chen).

TPTR is not Leland's story. "In a town like Twin Peaks no one is innocent" that is the core theme and always has been. FWWM took a justifiably harsh look on Leland Palmer. TPTR now focuses on Sarah's role in Laura's murder. Yes, Leland committed the actual bloody crime, but we see in FWWM how Sarah f.ex. allows herself to become sedated by way of drugged warm milk, we get the idea that this has become routine. We see how she ignores some gigantic warning signs, all in order to allow herself to keep the illusion of a happy family under one roof. We sense that even the Hayward's next door know that something is up, but do not interfere directly.

Whether Leland was abused by match-flicking Mr.Robertson up at Pearl Lakes, and whether young Sarah Palmer was inhabited by a frog moth, these two people might have excuses, but are certainly not innocent. Who is the dreamer, who is stuck in a loop, drinking her days away while watching the same boxing match repeated again and again and again. Who is it that cannot forgive herself for her role in Laura's murder? As we are shown in Frost book and in season two, Leland will always choose the easy way out (suicide) to repent for his crimes. Sarah is more complex, and it is the memory and idea of Sarah that still haunts Carrie Page in "What Is Your Name?".

The recent posts from Season 4 thread have been moved over here as the first few replies became more of a discussion that looks like it might turn into a longer and interesting one. Better to keep all these posts together in case people are looking for this topic again in the future.

Edit - Some related conversation about Ray Wise also found it's way to Page 2 of the Sarah/Grace Zabriskie thread. Here's the link for anyone who's interested: http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 50#p131950

Great post from mtwentz in the Sarah/Grace thread that thought was worth sharing here too.

mtwentz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:37 pm

Jonah wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:05 am I don't even know why Ray Wise bothered to show up for that. It could have easily been accomplished with archive footage and you're right he got a lot more to do in the featurette. It's like they just didn't know what to do with him - but they'd already decided the character existed in the red room, they had the actor there at hand, why not improvise a bit or give him some of the lines of the other people in the Red Room. Even a few scenes with him speaking gobbledygook or intriguing dialogue and grinning eerily would have fleshed out his role a bit more. Perhaps Sarah could have started seeing Leland's guise around town too, something like that. Might have been too conventional for Lynch but, done right, could have been very intriguing.

So we had two different 'theories' on why Ray Wise wasn't used more. One poster who is quite well known here said two words: David Lynch

The other poster on Dugpa stated this: "I saw people blaming David for not including Leland so I wanted to add my two cents. I met Ray Wise at a recent con and he had some very clear feelings on Mark Frost, especially his books. Let's just say... he's not a fan. I made a comment that I wish he was in it more and I'm pretty sure he more or less blamed Mark for it. I have a video my friend took of me talking to him that I definitely don't want to share publicly. I'll review it though."

I definitely feel like the books did not have any impact on the series itself. they feel like "pick your own adventure if you want them" appendices to the experience. It's one thing if Ray were upset about his lack of screen time in season 3, but that's not because of whatever Mark put in his books. (full disclosure - I haven't read the Final Dossier, just the Secret History)