Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[counterpaul]

If I could toss one pacing criticism at the new season as a whole, as well, it would be that there isn't a better weekly balance of plot movement and aesthetic/visual moments, as, when viewed as a weekly series, episodes tend to lean hard toward one or the other, and it does make me feel limp on the idea of revisiting parts like 7 and 9.

It's a side-effect of the fact that this was never conceived as a weekly series. It was written and shot, and largely initially cut as I understand it, as a giant single piece and only broken up into hours at the very end.

I highly recommend clearing a chunk of time and watching everything together. It's a revelation. Depending on your personality, certain sections will play better than others when viewed as "episodes"--some people are thrilled with the plottier elements that take up healthy portions of Part 7 and Part 9 where as some people (like me, and it seems you, Cipher) get more of a jolt out of material like that which takes up a the bulk of Part 3 and Part 8. Part 7 and Part 9, when viewed in isolation, do, I agree, play as kind of house-cleaning installments at times.

BUT, if you watch it all together it's a whole different story. I haven't had a chance to watch all nine parts together yet, but I imagine that when I do Part 9 will transform in a very similar way that Part 7 did for me--and it isn't just optimism and faith talking. Watching Part 7 in context, it was very clear that the more exposition-heavy scenes have been carefully interspersed with more character/mood-driven scenes all the way through the piece. Take an hour out of context, and that hour may be a little tilted one way or the other (or a lot tilted in the yin/yang of Part 8 and Part 9), but the ebbs and flows of the whole are remarkably well-balanced.

Part 9 is a bit heavier on the plottiness than even Part 7 was, but there is still plenty of time devoted to wonderful character beats like Jerry's scene, the Lucy/Andy chair-shopping scene (which I know a lot of people don't like, but I thought was lovely), the Gordon/Diane/Tammy cigarette scene (a small masterpiece, that one!), Coop quietly putting things together at the Vegas Police station, the Ben/Beverly scene, etc. Plus, there are lots of wonderful, human elements that elevate even the plottiest material (Albert and Constance's flirting, Bill Hasting's total breakdown since being imprisoned, absolutely every moment with Bobby) and reward revisiting.

In context of the greater whole, it's all those elements that come shining to the surface, where the truly book-keeping bits serve their purpose and fly by, in my experience.

[Cipher]

BUT, if you watch it all together it's a whole different story.

Is it? I'm unsure if this issue is likely to disappear even on marathon viewings, though it'll probably be lessened. Lynch's later movies, even Inland Empire at three hours, don't suffer from clustering expository information in a way this season tends to (partly because they don't offer much of it, of course), but it also feels a bit disingenuous to offer up the "eighteen-hour" movie as an excuse for macro-scale pacing issues as 1) that isn't the way the series is being released and 2) I'm unlikely to ever be able to dedicate eighteen consecutive hours to a single-sitting viewing.

Again, not a major issue, but one that I think is a real-deal flaw of the season as a whole. Maybe I'll feel differently on a rewatch.

I do think episode 9 in particular offers up at least two moving moments, and clever bits of staging, so it might also just be that the exposition-heavy scenes we get aren't particularly gracefully handled. It's certainly forgivable to have slumps.

[LurkerAtTheThreshold]

Ok. I really enjoyed that episode. Best piece of television I've seen for a long time.

Does that make me a traitor to this group?

It's probably because this episode had a bit of a plot! The relief in that after some of the episodes and the feeling that the story may actually be moving a bit......finally, is probably akin to colonic irrigation though I can't say for definite as never had one (I genuinely never thought I would ever compare TP to colonics). It's a sad day when you have to be relieved that a plot has turned up but a better day that it has.

Please let Cole get a call early on in next weeks episode saying Coop 2 has been fingerprinted and link these two up. I was like, 'yayyyy' when they started linking up some of the storylines and maybe, finally, someone will help the real Cooper to regain his brain as that is, Imo, tedious now. Also there actually felt like there was some heart in parts of it *shock horror* esp with the Briggs stuff which was great, and was pleased that Bobby managed not to cry again. Nice music in parts. Some dodgy Andy/Lucy acting though - actually just dire acting. They should get their own children's tv show to host as it's on a par with that. I could hardly understand a word that armpit girl said in the bar, whoever she was. Nice touch they had her drinking Rainier Beer. Quite enjoyed some of the awkward silences in it with the cops and with Diane/Cole/Preston on the steps. Dern managed to out act Bell even without saying a word! I suspect the cue to talk was when Lynch took the ciggie. Can only imagine any conversation about the scene prior to it being shot. Nice to see the real Albert emerge with his fruitcake line.

Yes! Plot!
This is exactly how I felt about it. I really like Diane. The awkwardness of those scenes are great. There was a lot of awkwardness in this episode which felt natural and great, where before it had felt stiff and out of place.

The Bobby stuff was really touching and the absurdity of every scene doesn't seem so disconnecting now. I guess it is partially just getting use to the new show. But I don't know, this feels a whole lot more like Twin Peaks to me

[The Gazebo]

I guess it is partially just getting use to the new show. But I don't know, this feels a whole lot more like Twin Peaks to me

For me, there's only one thing missing now: More nighttime scenes/motifs, like for example the train crossing in episode 2. It probably takes more time and effort to film these, particularly when they are shot on location, but I'm still hoping that we'll move towards more darkness visually (at times the series has had a bit daytime-ish feel to it).

[counterpaul]

Lynch's later movies, even Inland Empire at three hours, don't suffer from clustering expository information in a way this season tends to

Does it, though? What watching it all together clarified for me is that the apparent "clusters" are kind of an illusion. Now, at this particular point in the story (late in Part 6 through Part 9), a lot of perviously disparate threads are in the process of coming together so at this specific juncture there is some house-cleaning to do here and there. Sure, this process was interrupted in a big way by an extended abstract set-piece in Part 8, but I don't think that constitutes a trend. I suppose we'll see whether a trend emerges, but I'm not seeing it thus far. There have just been a couple of chunks that feel extra plotty out of context because they happen to come from a section in which things are coming together.

Balance is obviously key, here. So far, having watched Part 1-8 in a single sitting, the balance felt right to me. We shall see if that continues to be the case.

but it also feels a bit disingenuous to offer up the "eighteen-hour" movie as an excuse for macro-scale pacing issues as 1) that isn't the way the series is being released and 2) I'm unlikely to ever be able to dedicate eighteen consecutive hours to a single-sitting viewing.

I'm loving the structure of this thing! I hope more shows follow suit. It feels like such a natural way to tell a very long story using the medium of cinema. Other shows, even excellent ones, are starting to feel a little forced, a little false, to me as I start to notice them checking in with characters every week and creating extraneous plot-lines just because the leads are supposed to be featured in every episode and creating mini-arcs that resolve each hour amid the larger arcs that take a season, again so that each episode feels somewhat self-contained. I mean, it all takes a tremendous amount of skill to do well--I'm not knocking the craftsmanship involved--but it's incredibly limiting from a pure storytelling perspective.

I love the idea of something that only really totally works as an 18 hour movie. Sure, it's completely unrealistic to ask an audience to watch it that way, but it's also kind of awesome. I mean, most great books work best in one sitting if you can manage it. Most of the time you can't, and so it's a little compromise. It's not like TPTR falls apart when broken up. But watching it in shorter chunks is very much like picking up and putting down a book--you have to get back into its rhythms and you can't expect whatever chunk you read in a sitting to work as a self-contained short story.

[The Gazebo]

I'm loving the structure of this thing! I hope more shows follow suit. It feels like such a natural way to tell a very long story using the medium of cinema. Other shows, even excellent ones, are starting to feel a little forced, a little false, to me as I start to notice them checking in with characters every week and creating extraneous plot-lines just because the leads are supposed to be featured in every episode and creating mini-arcs that resolve each hour amid the larger arcs that take a season, again so that each episode feels somewhat self-contained. I mean, it all takes a tremendous amount of skill to do well--I'm not knocking the craftsmanship involved--but it's incredibly limiting from a pure storytelling perspective.

I love the idea of something that only really totally works as an 18 hour movie. Sure, it's completely unrealistic to ask an audience to watch it that way, but it's also kind of awesome. I mean, most great books work best in one sitting if you can manage it. Most of the time you can't, and so it's a little compromise. It's not like TPTR falls apart when broken up. But watching it in shorter chunks is very much like picking up and putting down a book--you have to get back into its rhythms and you can't expect whatever chunk you read in a sitting to work as a self-contained short story.

I agree with you - but it is a risky business for others to do it the same way. TP/Lynch has a very devoted and cinematically well-educated fan base (I'm not a movie connoisseur myself), but even some of these have probably struggled with the storytelling this season. Now, if a brand new show were to follow Lynch's formula, it would be asking a lot of its potential viewership. But who knows, maybe The Return will serve as an education of sorts for both filmmakers and viewers, and as "we" expand our horizons, this will eventually become the norm? In any case, I think it might take a decade or two before someone attempts this again (at least when it comes to big-money projects).

[LateReg]

BUT, if you watch it all together it's a whole different story.

Is it? I'm unsure if this issue is likely to disappear even on marathon viewings, though it'll probably be lessened. Lynch's later movies, even Inland Empire at three hours, don't suffer from clustering expository information in a way this season tends to (partly because they don't offer much of it, of course), but it also feels a bit disingenuous to offer up the "eighteen-hour" movie as an excuse for macro-scale pacing issues as 1) that isn't the way the series is being released and 2) I'm unlikely to ever be able to dedicate eighteen consecutive hours to a single-sitting viewing.

Again, not a major issue, but one that I think is a real-deal flaw of the season as a whole. Maybe I'll feel differently on a rewatch.

I do think episode 9 in particular offers up at least two moving moments, and clever bits of staging, so it might also just be that the exposition-heavy scenes we get aren't particularly gracefully handled. It's certainly forgivable to have slumps.

I 100% agree with Counterpaul. This thing really ebbs and flows. Some "episodes" may feel more plot heavy, but that feels natural in the ebb and flow of the now 9 hour and soon to be 18 hour movie. While watching it as one long piece the whole thing feels like one long piece, building and building and building to its own jazzy rhythm. Also, I'd like to point out that if you arbitrarily cut these "episodes" down to 45 minutes each that they would individually feel a bit different (maybe there wouldn't be any that felt as plot heavy as 7 and 9) but would also better highlight how well it all flows since there wouldn't be as many purely plot heavy parts.

[LurkerAtTheThreshold]

I guess it is partially just getting use to the new show. But I don't know, this feels a whole lot more like Twin Peaks to me

For me, there's only one thing missing now: More nighttime scenes/motifs, like for example the train crossing in episode 2. It probably takes more time and effort to film these, particularly when they are shot on location, but I'm still hoping that we'll move towards more darkness visually (at times the series has had a bit daytime-ish feel to it).

Yeah. I can see that. It's the same as focussing on the younger generation rather than the older generation. Although, I'm kind of warming more to this in episode 9. It wouldn't make sense for Lynch and Frost to ty to force a youthful perspective on themselves. This is how they see the world, at least a now we are seeing a more optimistic bright spark amidst some of the more pessimistic reflections on old age and death

[sugarhigh]

Alright, gonna add a few more things to the list of problems I have with S3:

Diane. Just not feeling Dern as Diane at all and she is one of my favorite actresses. It's just not working for me.

Road House bands. alright, I like really liked Chromatics, Catus Blossoms and Trouble. "The" Nine Inch Nails was a jump the shark moment and unfortunately happened in the best part of S3.....so stupid. Au Revoir Simone, wow they're horrible. The EDM dude flipping his crossfader back and forth before Au Revoir Simone....why? Really, why?

Dougie & Janey, obviously, horrible storyline and really not digging the acting on Naomi Watts part. So bad that I'm rooting for Mr. C to kill them even if it meant we'd never see the real Cooper again. I'll be pissed if I find out that the Dougie storyline was what Lynch left the project over. So much wasted time....

The lack of music. S3 is sorta like a biscuit without butter, honey or gravy. It's just....dry. I don't know, I can't figure out what we're supposed to be caring about, having some background music might elevate, or make interesting, scenes that just aren't giving me anything to feel invested in.

Cameos. Really annoying wasting time. Wally Brando was hilarious though.


So far this season is devoid of anything that made the pilot/ 1st season great. There's just no mood, atmosphere....
I mean, it's cool having all of the little background clues and having to go back and freeze frame scenes to catch what we've missed during the live airing, but I need what's happening in the foreground to be good and compelling first.

All that said, it's still exiting to be sitting down on a Sunday to watch new Twin Peaks, it's nice to get to peek in on the residents of the town, happy the actors got a check and a chance to work with Lynch again and I really hope it all comes together in a way that will lead me to appreciate the first 9 parts but at this point I just don't see it happening.

[IcedOver]

Watched Part 9 this morning. I'm glad Part 8 came when it did, because it "opened up" the series from a thematic point of view and provided a change of pace. If Part 8 hadn't come, I wouldn't be viewing Part 9 in as positive a light because it would have been yet another continuation of the previous. As it is, though, I'm still reacting to it in much the same way as most of the others. Reflecting on these episodes, I go from loving them to loathing them/wishing the show were different, within the space of a few seconds. The "looseness" of the show from a narrative point of view is alternately exhilarating and maddening.
It's exhilarating because it's like nothing else on TV, perhaps ever, and maddening because its looseness is to the detriment of characterization and bare bones interest of the viewer in the story.

Just some petty quibbles that I'm sure others have brought up -- the plane number was backwards. I'm sure that people have tried to bring some fan fiction theory to that, but come on. It's a lack of attention to detail. The shifting of musical acts within that scene to one that came before felt kind of chintzy as well.

[LateReg]

Watched Part 9 this morning. I'm glad Part 8 came when it did, because it "opened up" the series from a thematic point of view and provided a change of pace. If Part 8 hadn't come, I wouldn't be viewing Part 9 in as positive a light because it would have been yet another continuation of the previous. As it is, though, I'm still reacting to it in much the same way as most of the others. Reflecting on these episodes, I go from loving them to loathing them/wishing the show were different, within the space of a few seconds. The "looseness" of the show from a narrative point of view is alternately exhilarating and maddening.
It's exhilarating because it's like nothing else on TV, perhaps ever, and maddening because its looseness is to the detriment of characterization and bare bones interest of the viewer in the story.

Just some petty quibbles that I'm sure others have brought up -- the plane number was backwards. I'm sure that people have tried to bring some fan fiction theory to that, but come on. It's a lack of attention to detail. The shifting of musical acts within that scene to one that came before felt kind of chintzy as well.

That's a good way of summing it up. I understand your feelings there.

I didn't notice the plane number being backwards; I didn't think the return of that band felt chintzy, but rather like, oh, some of these acts may be local after all and make repeat appearances at the Roadhouse, just like Julee Cruise used to. It added a sense of place for me.

[IcedOver]

That's a good way of summing it up. I understand your feelings there.

I didn't notice the plane number being backwards; I didn't think the return of that band felt chintzy, but rather like, oh, some of these acts may be local after all and make repeat appearances at the Roadhouse, just like Julee Cruise used to. It added a sense of place for me.

Au Revoir Simone was wearing the same clothes as the last appearance, though. Of course you can't expect things to be sequential in this show. The switch happened as Sky Ferreira and the other girl were talking, and their song started during that scene, but the previous performer would have had to get his stuff off stage mighty quick. It was kind of lame editing. Lynch also sort of banged into the door when he was coming out of the police station, I believe. Then Lillard was crying without tears, same as Dern in Part 7 (although I liked his plea "I WANNA GO SCUBA DIVING!!!"). Just minor stuff, but it points to a production that was pretty rushed.

[LateReg]

That's a good way of summing it up. I understand your feelings there.

I didn't notice the plane number being backwards; I didn't think the return of that band felt chintzy, but rather like, oh, some of these acts may be local after all and make repeat appearances at the Roadhouse, just like Julee Cruise used to. It added a sense of place for me.

Au Revoir Simone was wearing the same clothes as the last appearance, though. Of course you can't expect things to be sequential in this show. The switch happened as Sky Ferreira and the other girl were talking, and their song started during that scene, but the previous performer would have had to get his stuff off stage mighty quick. It was kind of lame editing. Lynch also sort of banged into the door when he was coming out of the police station, I believe. Then Lillard was crying without tears, same as Dern in Part 7 (although I liked his plea "I WANNA GO SCUBA DIVING!!!"). Just minor stuff, but it points to a production that was pretty rushed.

I didn't notice they were wearing the same clothes, but it still doesn't bother me, thankfully. I don't think it's lame editing when it's more about the feeling it's supposed to give you. I felt the music, which is good for me; you felt bothered by the small details, which isn't good for you. I noticed Lynch bang into the door...which happens to me all the time, so I get that. That's fine. He could have done it over and chose not to. He probably liked that he hit the door. Lillard seemed a sloppy mess to me, so it all seemed right whether he was crying or not. Ditto Dern, who doesn't even need tears there (though I didn't notice either way), much like Sean Penn in Mystic River keeps crying without tears because its part of his story. I just don't see any of this as signs that the production was rushed. Different ways of looking at the scenes, I guess.

[IcedOver]

I just don't see any of this as signs that the production was rushed. Different ways of looking at the scenes, I guess.

Also, if Johnny Horne was supposed to be dead, he sure was breathing pretty well for a dead man. It's more of an attention to detail, I guess. These are things that should be looked at.

[mtsi]

I'm genuinely enjoying the show, HOWEVER I CANNOT STAND THE EMPTY COFFEE CUPS OR THE EMPTY BEER CONTAINERS.

Put F'ing water or something in them. It's so distracting.

Copper with the coffee. Sky with the beer. Augh!!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk