Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[DirkG]

I'm also worried that Frost's heavy-handed writing may suck some of the ominous mystique out of the otherworldly dialogue by making it a little too scrutable, lacking that mysterious, alien riddle quality so much of that speech feels like it carries in the series and in FWWM. EDIT: Like his "Rabbits" series, featured in Inland Empire, actually. The way he has perfected the creation of what I would call "non-linear dialogue".

Some great points. I believe the perfect solution would be less Frost involvement in the Black Lodge BUT, more importantly, more of it in the outside ordinary world. While part of the problem was that the BL felt like it explained things too much this time, by far a bigger problem is the lack of obvious Frost styled wit in the dialogue of the ordinary world. The before mentioned Horne brothers scene is (and I know people disagree) one of the few where I can with 100% certainty feel his presence.

I'm in the 'Lynch used the script as a map'-camp here, It seems obvious to me that's what he did. And the thing that feels bad for me is that during the filming I was HOPING for it, that he would dare to use his creativity without Frost getting overly in the way. Seems like I got my wish but to and extent that I hadn't expected. It was a spice that should have been used but more sparingly. The key is always balance. That's what made the original show so compelling.. lots of diverse factors that balanced up each other (even though it also needed a FEW more Lynch-directed episodes in a more than one a bit too dry stretch or two).

[dronerstone]

Besides, what is truly worse about the planet these days will for very obvious reasons not be touched. Lets just leave it like that. And no, I'm not talking about Trump.

I'd be interested in that (what is worse but will not be touched by the series and cannot be named here). Care to PM me what you meant by it?

I sent Agent 327 a similar request. My guess was Islamic terrorism but not sure if I can say that here or not.

It's not. I got banned for "talking politics" once, when the only thing I did was dropping a name of one single person.
Remember that this isn't a politics forum and keep those details to yourself.

Thank you.

[krzhuva]

Lynch's treatment of Andy and Lucy has always been grotesque and quite different from their more conventional versions presented by other TP directors, even more so in the Missing Pieces. That's just how he sees them. Those complaining about the slowness, the absence of music, and the lethargic interactions punctuated by absurdly long pauses, as if it were something new, could also turn to FWWM and the Missing Pieces, where this approach was already very, very evident. Personally, I love it. It's just very nice when a movie refuses to attack you with oppressive meaning, and instead makes you listen to the sounds.

[mlsstwrt]

I'd be interested in that (what is worse but will not be touched by the series and cannot be named here). Care to PM me what you meant by it?

I sent Agent 327 a similar request. My guess was Islamic terrorism but not sure if I can say that here or not.

It's not. I got banned for "talking politics" once, when the only thing I did was dropping a name of one single person.
Remember that this isn't a politics forum and keep those details to yourself.

Thank you.

Sure, I have no interest in talking politics here, was just curious as to what the worst thing was but I should have saved it for PMs. Apologies to mods and all.

[Hockey Mask]

By looking at the reviews and listening to the podcasts, it seems that most people disagree with you,

And? Why should I care about what other people think? If 100 scientists sit in a room and 96 of them declare the world is flat, does that mean the world is flat?

Keep in mind, ar least 96/100 scientists would declare the earth round. You're example incorrectly groups the majority in order to put yourself in the correct minority.

[Venus]

Hi, yes. I'd never heard of The Chromatic's before but I liked them. It's a bit weird ending on a band like that but I think they fit in well. There was another band too, three girls with synths (again no idea who they were!) but I liked their music and the way they fit in too. I take it we aren't going to see Julee Cruise?

Some have speculated we'll go out with Julee in the last episode when some huge twist and reveal occurs. Who knows? She IS listed in the cast.

.

Was she? I had forgotten. That is wonderful news if she is. Thanks for the info

[mlsstwrt]

By looking at the reviews and listening to the podcasts, it seems that most people disagree with you,

And? Why should I care about what other people think? If 100 scientists sit in a room and 96 of them declare the world is flat, does that mean the world is flat?

Keep in mind, ar least 96/100 scientists would declare the earth round. You're example incorrectly groups the majority in order to put yourself in the correct minority.

But neither does it follow that the majority view is the 'correct one.' If it were I'd have to acknowledge that Nicki Minaj's music and Michael Bay movies are the best things out there.

So I don't think the fact that most people disagree with Gabriel (or me) offers any proof that our view is 'incorrect'.

[AnotherBlueRoseCase]

And? Why should I care about what other people think? If 100 scientists sit in a room and 96 of them declare the world is flat, does that mean the world is flat?

Keep in mind, ar least 96/100 scientists would declare the earth round. You're example incorrectly groups the majority in order to put yourself in the correct minority.

But neither does it follow that the majority view is the 'correct one.' If it were I'd have to acknowledge that Nicki Minaj's music and Michael Bay movies are the best things out there.

So I don't think the fact that most people disagree with Gabriel (or me) offers any proof that our view is 'incorrect'.

Disappointment verging on disbelief, miscasting, appalling acting, auteur arrogance, dreadful dialogue that makes the acting look even worse (‘Oooh, YOU’RE nice and wet’), fury directed at we sceptics, demands that nobody post pisstakes, claims that every last bum note is deliberate and that anything deliberate is necessarily good, sneering implications that sceptics just aren’t smart enough to get it, warily respectful but not all that enthusiastic mainstream reviews that will later become a dismissive consensus… this is True Detective S02 all over again, isn’t it?

It’s interesting how few of those yelling at us ‘The show’s flaws are deliberate! There’s a rationale behind them that you just can’t see yet cos you’ve only watched four hours!’ actually try to guess what that rationale might be. The only real suggestion I’ve heard, that Coop is feeling desolate so the audience should too, for fours hours minimum, is so late-night-weed-brainwave dreadful, accurate or not, that I’d rather pretend I never heard it.

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, one possible explanation for the bum notes so far – what even most enthusiasts acknowledge as something being ‘off’ here – is that S03 is an homage to the Wizard of Oz and these amateurish early parts are the equivalent of TWOO’s black and white opening. Then when Coop reaches the equivalent of Oz the show will burst into ‘Technicolor’ and become a far more colourful, enjoyable, uplifting experience altogether.

Assuming for a moment there might be something to this, it’s actually a cool enough possibility. But obviously there are problems with it. Firstly, the black and white opening to TWOO is still beautiful and audience-friendly – just in different ways to the colour sequences. And secondly, no artwork I know of has ever rescued itself after four hours minimum of tediousness, deliberate or otherwise. So here are some questions for those who keep telling us the tediousness is deliberate and will be redeemed by what comes later:

1. Could you direct us to any other work in any medium that has pulled this off? Just for reassurance, like.
2. If this redemption comes after, say, fourteen hours of tediousness, will it have been worth it? If so, what level of redemption are we talking about here? Precisely what kind of earth-shattering revelation can redeem fourteen hours of boredom?
3. If the redemption never comes, or it comes only briefly before a return to more hours of Lynchian tediousness, how will you feel then?
4.

Spoiler:

In E05 Chrysta Bell emotes while dragging her fingernails down an FBI blackboard for six minutes: thumbs up or down from you?

Someone in the thread (was it you, mlsstwrt?) described S03 thus far as a sketch show. This is dead right IMO. Sketch shows can be great but we seldom suspend our disbelief while we’re watching and so seldom find ourselves moved. The Return’s amateurishness keeps wrecking any chance at suspension of disbelief and therefore emotional connection. Hence the coldness you and others have described so well above.

[Twin Peaks Podcast]

I think the folks in this thread would appreciate this the most.

I just released my podcast reviewing the first two episodes. Overall I liked it, but my cohosts and I aren't nearly as glowing as other reviewers I've read/heard. So if you have some concerns about the new season, perhaps you'll like our take.

http://twinpeakspodcast.blogspot.ca/201 ... -been.html

We're back again!

After 25 (27?) years Twin Peaks has finally returned, and it looks very different than it did before. Do the hosts like this new direction, or are some of them seeing red? Take a listen and find out if the wait was worth it.

Definitely a good podcast, thank you for taking the time of putting it together. I obviously disagree with many of your points, but I found it very informative nonetheless.

I plan to listen to your podcasts in the future, but I have one request. Given the structure of this TP, it would be nice if at the end of the podcast you guys spent 5 to 10 minutes re-reviewing *all* the previous episodes in light of the new episodes, sort of a "delta review" with the new information. It would be nice to see how your opinions vary during the time just because of the new information that is presented to you.
Good job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for checking it out.

Hmm, I'm not sure if we'll devote a specific section to revising past episodes, but if new information changes what I felt about something you can be sure I'll bring it up.

For instance the banging "mother" from the beginning of episode 3 I'm pretty sure is the same creature from the box and it's following Cooper around.

[Twin Peaks Podcast]

I think the folks in this thread would appreciate this the most.

I just released my podcast reviewing the first two episodes. Overall I liked it, but my cohosts and I aren't nearly as glowing as other reviewers I've read/heard. So if you have some concerns about the new season, perhaps you'll like our take.

http://twinpeakspodcast.blogspot.ca/201 ... -been.html

Definitely a good podcast, thank you for taking the time of putting it together. I obviously disagree with many of your points, but I found it very informative nonetheless.

I plan to listen to your podcasts in the future, but I have one request. Given the structure of this TP, it would be nice if at the end of the podcast you guys spent 5 to 10 minutes re-reviewing *all* the previous episodes in light of the new episodes, sort of a "delta review" with the new information. It would be nice to see how your opinions vary during the time just because of the new information that is presented to you.
Good job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for checking it out.

Hmm, I'm not sure if we'll devote a specific section to revisiting past episodes, but if new information changes what I felt about something you can be sure I'll bring it up.

For instance the banging "mother" from the beginning of episode 3 I'm pretty sure is the same creature from the box and it's following Cooper around.

[N. Needleman]

People are entitled to feel how they like, but I'm not sure how casting aspersions on Lynch as having contempt for the audience and characters and being either some sort of cynical huckster or demented old man who has iced Mark Frost out (which was since disproven here) - or calling the rest of us either clueless dupes or pretentious blowhards - is about providing anyone a safe space.

Just saying. If you want people to engage on these debates, maybe tone down the rhetoric.

[mlsstwrt]

People are entitled to feel how they like, but I'm not sure how casting aspersions on Lynch as having contempt for the audience and characters and being either some sort of cynical huckster or demented old man who has iced Mark Frost out (which was since disproven here) - or calling the rest of us either clueless dupes or pretentious blowhards - is about providing anyone a safe space.

Just saying. If you want people to engage on these debates, maybe tone down the rhetoric.

Honestly, just from my point of view, the thread was created specifically for people who are NOT enjoying Twin Peaks. I think the title of the thread makes that clear doesn't it? The 'safe space' was a joke (you'd probably get hit for using that expression on my side of the Atlantic ) but if there is any truth in in then it's a safe space for US and not YOU because we are in the minority on this and there seems to be, in general, more vitriol towards people questioning the brilliance of this than those championing it.

That said, of course you and others who love the new Series are very welcome here and I hope everyone can keep the tone respectful. But criticism of Lynch in this thread is absolutely welcome. I can understand you taking exception to those of us you think are calling you pretentious blowhards but are you honestly offended that we are criticising Lynch? I'll be clear, THIS THREAD IS NOT A SAFE SPACE FOR DAVID LYNCH.

I love Lynch and always will but based on evidence so far he is not what he once was. And to be clear, I don't mean he has 'evolved' or 'changed', I mean he is on the downslope.

BlueRoseCase - I wish I could take credit for the 'sketch show' comment, it was fantastic, but unfortunately that wasn't me. Great post btw.

[N. Needleman]

An I offended by some of the personal attacks I've seen re: Lynch in here? Yeah. I kept my mouth shut until we got to him being an aging, demented pensioner or cynical robber baron who had shrugged off Mark Frost.

I see a lot more vitriol here than I've seen on the other side. But that's me. I just don't think it helps to get a valid point across.

[mlsstwrt]

An I offended by some of the personal attacks I've seen re: Lynch in here? Yeah. I kept my mouth shut until we got to him being an aging, demented pensioner or cynical robber baron who had shrugged off Mark Frost.

I see a lot more vitriol here than I've seen on the other side. But that's me. I just don't think it helps to get a valid point across.

Well, ultimately we are all Twin Peaks and David Lynch fans and I want us to get along.

I love Lynch. People loved Michael Jackson too but I don't think it's cruel or harsh to say that 'Dangerous' was no 'Thriller' for example.

[AnotherBlueRoseCase]

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