Episode 15

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LostInTheMovies
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Episode 15

Post by LostInTheMovies »

Let's talk Leland/Bob's manic maneuvers, Ben as the suspect, MT Wentz's arrival (actually let's not) and whatever else you want to analyze, discuss, or criticize from this episode.
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Jonah
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Re: Episode 15

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I don't think this episode entirely worked but it's one I'm quite fond of and has always stayed fresh in my memory. I love the scenes of Leland singing "Surrey With a Fringe On Top" and being pursued by Coop/Truman, and later Leland in the Great Northern - although at times it felt like these scenes with Leland containing Bob were in danger of veering away from suspense and eeriness into camp or OTT comedy. I also really enjoyed the sequences of Lara Flynn Boyle and Leland in this episode. I would have been intrigued to see Donna either being killed or stalked in more depth by Bob and the parallels to her friendship with Laura. Though brief, I like what we got. And I think that moment with Donna walking away from the house in tears is one of Donna's finest moment, so much felt and realized in that short sequence, I wish it had been expanded on. She clearly knows Leland killed Laura or at least suspects. I also liked the golf balls, the eerie bit of Maddy stuffed in the bag. So overall, all this stuff makes for an episode that has a lot going for it, but the tone wasn't always quite right.

As for the other stuff ... MT Wentz, ugh. And I know a lot of people like Erine but, for me ... also ugh. Groan-inducing.
Last edited by Jonah on Thu May 11, 2017 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Episode 15

Post by LostInTheMovies »

Mostly agreed - but I think you're thinking of episode 16 with some of the Donna stuff (like Leland grabbing her, and her walking from the house in tears). I know she sees all the golf balls in this episode but I'm not sure if she has any other scenes with him.
Jonah wrote:And I know a lot of people like Erine
They do?!
but, for me ... also ugh. Groan-inducing.
Agreed!
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Re: Episode 15

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Redundant post. (Man, my computer keeps doing this! Or is it the site?)
Last edited by LostInTheMovies on Thu May 21, 2015 8:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Episode 15

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Ah you're right, weird how those Donna scenes merge into Episode 15 in my mind, even though I recently watched the whole show again earlier this year and have seen it countless times.

(And typo alert: I meant Ernie of course, not Erine!)
Last edited by Jonah on Thu May 11, 2017 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Twin Peaks Out of Order #18: Episode 15

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Re-watching Twin Peaks from my least favorite to favorite episode...

Previously: Episode 11 (http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43459#p43459)

For two episodes in the middle of its run - maybe only an episode and a half - Twin Peaks exists as a very different show than it was before or afterwards. The narrative viewpoint is aligned more with Leland than Cooper. We are no longer driven by mystery, because we know that Laura was killed by Leland, who is possessed in some capacity by a spirit named Bob (we are not yet certain about the nature of that possession). But we are still driven by investigation, because Coop and Truman have not yet discovered the culprit. Ben is their lead suspect, an aspect of the case played mostly for laughs as Pete humiliates the disgraced mogul and Jerry offers his brother a lackluster legal defense. As with other episodes in this rewatch, 15 thrives out of context. At times I was surprised that it placed so low on my list. Ray Wise tears into his juicy part with gusto, the Richard Beymer-David Patrick Kelly dynamic is hilarious as always, Al Strobel continues to command the camera, and Kyle MacLachlan's troubled and troublesome chemistry with Sherilyn Fenn shines again in the penultimate scene, which was probably my favorite on this viewing. I also have a real soft spot for the Hook Rug Dance (on my first watch-through this was one of the last scenes in the series to really capture that "Twin Peaks magic" for me) and there are several excellent sequences with Leland - first when his fake sobs dissolve into maniacal snickers while a suspicious Cooper stands behind him, and later as he weaves back and forth on the road, singing “Surrey with the Fringe on Top” and nearly crashing into a gated golf course. But somehow it's that near-final moment in the Great Northern that whispers to us of all the things the show once promised to be, and occasionally fulfilled. Cooper is alone, speaking to Diane while sitting shirtless on his bed, stomach wound exposed. This allows us to glimpse the vulnerability beneath his confident exterior in a way that doesn't feel as cheap or tawdry as the FBI suspension and Windom Earle plotlines frequently do. Then Audrey comes knocking, and her visit serves to remind us that their connection was always more about star-crossed desire than One True Pairing. I don't think their relationship should have ever been consummated, but if it was, it would have to be deeply tied into Cooper's downfall. What Audrey longs for in this scene, even if she doesn't quite know it, is less a romantic partner than a father figure, and Cooper, meanwhile, may be looking for a reassuring crutch (a Diane in the flesh, whom he can embrace as well as talk to). Also powering this scene along is the evocative sound design - something Caleb Deschanel thrives with (see his use of wind rustling the plastic in Shelly's house back in episode 6). This time that eerie noise is the night air whistling at Cooper's open window, the darkness of the woods calling out even to those shut away in a comfortable, if temporary, home. Watched in its normal order, immediately after the titanic achievement of the killer's reveal, 15 can seem like a letdown, its tone a little too wacky for the horror we've just witnessed, its narrative uneven (and to be fair, the Norma's mom/Ernie Niles/Lucy's sister stuff does feel like a new low). Watched this way, however, before the best episodes and after the worst, its strengths become more apparent. Fleetingly at least, episode 15 is a poignant promise of what Twin Peaks could have been, if it had just had more faith in itself.

Next: Episode 1 (http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43717#p43717)
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Re: Episode 15

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Mid-tier Peaks, this episode feels like more of a placeholder than anything. In fact, Episode 16 may be much better, all things considered. The problem is that there's so much fluff in here (Norma's mom/Hank/Ernie/Lucy's sister) that sits so uncomfortably next to the darker and more compelling stuff -- and there isn't even much of the latter. This episode is not nearly as great as I had remembered. For being the episode after Maddy's death, everything is terribly hum-drum in a way, everybody just going about their lives, and I don't think this can be explained away as being a product of Coop not knowing yet. More than any episode yet in S2, this one hints at the lows to which the show would soon go: it's the first episode in which the show truly feels cleaved in two.
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Re: Episode 15

Post by TwinPeaksFanatic »

Episode 15 offers a bit of lighter fare amongst some of the heaviest episodes of the series and I really like it. I wrote a recap for the episode here --- >

http://twinpeaksfanatic.blogspot.com/20 ... de-15.html

:D
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Re: Episode 15

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This episode is indeed part of a unique two-episode stretch of the show like nothing before or after -- and this one is the "purer" example of what that version of the series might have been, since Episode 16 (love it or not) is so encumbered by the enormous baggage of its particular place in the narrative. I don't fully agree with LostintheMovies that these two episodes temporarily switch the series to a Leland-centric viewpoint, however. I think it's more a Coop/Leland split (even then, I think it leans slightly more towards Coop). However, this one does present a tantalizing view of a version of the series resembling Bryan Fuller's Hannibal (sans the love story subtext), where the show might have gotten at least a half-season out of Coop & Leland playing a cat-and-mouse game. In fact, Leland in this episode feels almost like a proto-Windom Earle. While Wise knocks it out of the park far more consistently than Kenneth Welsh, there is an undeniable camp to the proceedings here that feels rather cheap when considered in the context of the underlying tragedy (unsurprisingly, DKL handled Leland's balance between quirkiness and menace much more effectively in FWWM). Still, a back-half season 2 with Leland in Earle's place, if handled well, might have been far more satisfying, and felt more of a piece with what came before, than the hasty wrap-up we got to his storyline.

Random freeze-frame note #1: When Coop flips through Laura's diary, we can clearly read a handwritten version of the 7/23/84 entry from Jennifer Lynch's Secret Diary book (i.e., the "Waltzin' Matilda" dream). This effectively canonizes Jupiter the cat into the series, since his name is glimpsed onscreen for a few frames!

Random freeze-frame note #2: When Coop & Harry pull Leland over by the golf course, a gateway sign is prominently visible behind them: "APMGC." This was presumably the actual filming location, the Alondra Park Men's Golf Club (in El Camino, Ca.). Perhaps it was completely unintended, but at this time Coop & Harry are searching for the One-Armed Man, and the sign has Phillip Michael Gerard's initials in the middle of it!
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Re: Episode 15

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I have a question, and I feel a little out of place because this board is filled with lots of Peaks pros who have seen the show a hundred times, and this is only my second viewing. I am loving seeing things develop again though, now that I know the direction everything goes.

My question is about Laura's mom. At the end of episode 14, during the murder, she is crawling down the stairs and lying on the floor, seeing the horse, etc. I assumed it was because she was being attacked by Leland also. But in episode 15 she is perfectly happy upstairs talking to Leland as if nothing ever happened. Did I miss something? I was hoping someone mentioned something in this thread about it, but I didn't see anyone comment on it.
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Re: Episode 15

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KHAN Games wrote:I have a question, and I feel a little out of place because this board is filled with lots of Peaks pros who have seen the show a hundred times, and this is only my second viewing. I am loving seeing things develop again though, now that I know the direction everything goes.

My question is about Laura's mom. At the end of episode 14, during the murder, she is crawling down the stairs and lying on the floor, seeing the horse, etc. I assumed it was because she was being attacked by Leland also. But in episode 15 she is perfectly happy upstairs talking to Leland as if nothing ever happened. Did I miss something? I was hoping someone mentioned something in this thread about it, but I didn't see anyone comment on it.
Leland drugs her when he kills, rapes etc. This is clearer in the movie Fire Walk with Me (which you should ABSOLUTELY watch if you haven't seen it), but Coop also references this at the beginning of Episode 17.
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Re: Episode 15

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Retcon in this episode?

I didn't find anything about the topic in this thread, but maybe this has been discussed in other threads. If so, my apologies.

One of the mirror scenes with Leland/Bob has been changed from the original run.

When Leland sends James and Donna on their way early in the episode, he has a look into the mirror. In the original run (which I videotaped) and in The Complete Mystery, Leland looks into the mirror - Bob appears with a "neutral" face - before Leland shakes his head (and then replies to the Glenn Miller-night question from Sarah). However, in the latest version (HBO Nordic in my case), Leland doesn't appear in the mirror at all. It's just Bob, initially with the same "neutral" face, before he cracks into a smile. Leland isn't shown at all in the mirror, but you can still see the back of his head shaking at the end of the shot (as in the original version). Clearly, this is an edited/updated version which fits into Lynch's vision in FWWM. In the series, Leland was portrayed as a victim, while in FWWM he's more resonsible for his crimes. Has anyone else picked up on this?
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Re: Episode 15

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After the powerful Episode 14, this is an episode that is surprisingly almost upbeat - but it almost works.

I love the opening shot of the Palmer house at night with the screams cutting to the tree branch and the house the next morning.

Here we get Leland in full Bob mode, Ray Wise almost seeming to gleefully delight in the menace of his character. This is the most we've probably seen Bob to date, appearing here in the mirror in several shots.

Along with Maddy's murder, a few of these scenes of Leland seeing Bob in the mirror are what most stuck in my head as a child until I got to start rewatching the show as an adult. I wonder did I ever even see Episode 14 or did I just see Episode 15 and the previously on sequence showing Maddy's murder or did I see 14 and 15 close together? Either way, those scenes and the picture of Laura Palmer in the closing credits are my earliest memories of the show.

So obviously this episode is a step down in quality from the previous one - and you could argue that maybe it's played both too upbeat and too tongue-in-cheek, but I think the lightness here (in the Leland scenes) almost works in a sinister way. I don't think it quite downplays the horror of the previous episode, but seems to highlight just how strange and twisted this world is. Though obviously a darker and perhaps Lynch-directed hour would have been ideal.

The pan of the photos of Laura's photos seems almost cruel, as does Sarah calling to Leland - not to mention him telling Donna and James that Maddy was disappointed they didn't call over. Is this Bob in control (yes, we see him in the mirror) but is this Bob or is this the cruel side of Leland? He almost seems to be delighting in his nastiness.

The Ben/Jerry scene in the jail is great - and the hook rug/flashlight dance flashback along with the line "What's become of us?" feels very Lynch. Wonderful scene.

Lucy's sister Gwen - these scenes don't belong in an episode immediately following 14, they seem more like mid-season fare, but I almost liked Gwen "people like bad things to happen to you" on this latest rewatch.

The cat-and-mouse scenes with Cooper and Leland are interesting here. I might have liked to see these play out a little longer. I love the sequence in the hotel, with Cooper almost seeming to sense something and the pan down the hallway to Leland. And was Leland really going to attack Cooper with golf club? It certainly looked like it.

The scenes with Norma and her mother and Ernie aren't awful - yet - but they seem like they belong in another show, and again sequences like this seem beyond bizarre in an episode immediately following 14.

I like the scene with Pete and Ben in the Sheriff's Station and Catherine on the tape recorder. Ditto the scene with the one armed man smelling Ben.

And the Audrey/Cooper scene in Room 315 is lovely!

The final shot of Maddy being found by the waterfall is strong - though perhaps it could have been stronger. Though seeing her wrapped in plastic again is definitely powerful and really highlights how the series tended to revel in showing doubles.

All in all, the highlights here are the Leland scenes, and it's an episode that should have been a lot better - but almost works at times.

Question - what are the shoes in Leland's trunk in this episode? Are they supposed to just be golf shoes? They look very much like Audrey's saddle shoes from the pilot. I rewinded to Episode 14 to see if Maddy was wearing them when she was attacked, but she's not.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Episode 15

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Caleb Deschanel says in his Episode 6 commentary that he would have preferred to play more with shadow and contrast, but he was pretty much locked into the brighter “house style” of the show. Of course Lynch as the boss got to engage with shadow and contrast in his episodes, and it’s a little odd that other directors apparently weren’t permitted to, given Lynch’s visual preferences (the brightness of a lot of the original TP is really a contrast with most of his filmography). In direct contrast to Deschanel’s purported preferences, I always remember this episode as being maybe the brightest and most colorful, with the sun-soaked California driving scenes (can you imagine driving a top-down convertible in Washington in mid-March?!). In a way, the color timing is a nice contrast with Leland’s inner darkness, just like his cheerful tap-dancing.

There’s something weirdly ominous about Sarah’s brief appearances in this episode, remaining upstairs and mostly offscreen. What do we think she called Leland upstairs for?

It’s struck me on this viewing what a contrast the original series’ cultural touchstones (Glenn Miller, Fred Astaire) are with TR’s appearances by Sharon van Etten, Au Revoir Simone, etc. Even in 1989/1990, it was probably a stretch that high school students would be discussing obscure Marlon Brando Westerns, but it really does make the world feel full to have such a broad cultural landscape represented, from the Palmers’ preference for old jazz to the more youthful Roadhouse acts of the 2010s. Speaking of which, Ernie gives us our first cell phone in the TP universe!

It’s funny how the show sometimes went to lengths to avoid saying the show is set in Washington (the “Timber State” license plates prominently seen in this and other episodes), while Daryl Lodwick overtly referenced being in Washington a few episodes earlier.

Those kids they got to play Ben and Jerry as young boys are so spot-on. Brilliant casting. I’m sure it’s been mentioned elsewhere, but I love that little Ben has a cigar! It’s fun to see them as young boys and project forward to how they end up as old men in TR.

I’d forgotten that the M. T. Wentz storyline is introduced in Episode 11 and then completely dropped for three episodes! What strange pacing. Why didn’t they just wait until later to bring it up?

Nance is really really fun in this one. Pete is usually so sweet and naive, it’s really fun to see him playing the gloating schemer, and getting the upper hand on Ben. Also really fun to see Beymer playing Ben uncharacteristically panicked throughout the episode. When he sits down on the toilet and adjusts his tie after his outburst, it’s a thing of beauty.

An odd little touch: Just before they encounter Leland, Cooper is whistling the same showtune Leland is singing. Is this his natural clairvoyance manifesting itself, a foreshadowing of Coop’s future relationship with Bob, or just a shared appreciation of Rodgers & Hammerstein?

It’s fun, but surprising, how absolutely reckless Leland/Bob is in this one (driving erratically as if he wants to get pulled over with the corpse, going out of his way to open the trunk, and being seconds away from murdering an FBI agent in broad daylight!). My guess is that Bob is over Leland as a host and ready to dispose of him.

This episode in Dale’s Diet:
— A slice of cherry pie and a glass of milk in his room while getting ready for bed (he is interrupted by the call that Maddy’s body was found)
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Re: Episode 15

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A few thoughts on this latest rewatch...

Opening shot of the Palmer house - it's a touch more secluded than the house used for FWWM/Return. Seems a bit less likely a neighbour would hear the attack on Maddy and call the police.

Leland mentions dropping Maddy to the bus station, but in the previous episode Maddy said she'd be driving back - is her car parked at the bus station? Also, given that Leland is currently on trial for murder, it mightn't be a bad idea for James to apologise for smashing his lamp. Is this the happiest we see James throughout the series? Those laughs he shares with Donna are a nice touch we don't see enough of. To paraphrase Laura - 'James is brooding, but there's only so much I can take of brooding.'

Ernie's mobile! Twin Peaks always feels like it's set in the-present-filtered-through-an-imagined-50s so it's a bit of a shock whenever something crops up that anchors it to its actual time. There are a few hints that Norma's mum might be the food critic, given her criticism of food in both her scenes, although Vivian-as-MT-Wentz wasn't something that occurred to me on first viewing. Mainly because I didn't really care who was MT Wentz.

I think this is the first time we see Ben and Pete interact. They're great together!

What are they holding the One Armed Man for? 'He carries an inhabiting spirit' is not really gonna stand up in court, is it?

Was Leland really going to strike Cooper with the golf club in broad daylight with Harry a few feet away? It sure looked like it. Cooper's 'This is your backyard' spiel to Harry after he charges Ben Horne doesn't much tally with his introductory 'Bureau's in charge' talk from their meeting in the pilot.

This is the first time the audience have been ahead of Cooper - up to now we've all been in the dark - and it's a shame they didn't let crazed Leland run free for another couple of episodes.
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