How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

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LateReg
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby LateReg » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:37 pm

NormoftheAndes wrote:
LateReg wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
We have seen it for 22 episodes, multiple times. I honestly think it would’ve served no purpose at all especially since it’s linked to one of the most iconic moments of TP, one that can’t even be emulated in the slightest. I honestly think it was better this way, as Indiana Jones thought us, some sacred objects should never be touched.


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Are we talking about the Welcome to Twin Peaks sign? If so, it seems like it was intentionally brushed past. A poignant reminder that this is not some nostalgia trip and that focusing on the past is not the way to move forward.


You honestly thought that to yourself whilst watching that scene? Since Lynch is clearly not fond of psychological analysis of the meaning of what he is shooting, I don't think that was the intention too much. I am quite surprised when I hear fans talking about the new season being an exercise in anti-nostalgia as I didn't get that impression at all - if anything, I did pick up quite a lot of nostalgia in The Return, but filled with sadness.

I can't see Lynch or Frost having some message to send that looking back is a bad idea. The shot from the Mitchums' car as Cooper rapidly enters the town zooms past the town sign in a blur - encapsulating everything about part 17 and its rushed, hazy feel - as if we're never really truly in Twin Peaks. Dare I say it, we see things in a dream-like way.


I like the dream-like way you're presenting the scene, as if we're never truly in Twin Peaks, and I certainly think that applies. Whether it's meant to feel like a dream or to simply symbolize the hazy rush and blurring of time within the episode, the sign was intentionally brushed past in a way that felt very purposeful. I thought it was odd while watching it, as it leaves quite an impression that such an iconic symbol was discarded so quickly. The entire series seemed to take pleasure in perverting icons, so upon reflection, it would seem to be another example of things not being quite how we remembered them, of Cooper having to rush in and out of town because in his hubris he thinks has bigger fish to fry, of very little pleasure being taken in the simple nostalgia of it all. Maybe Cooper himself is so focused on his task that he is missing the beauty of the place he once loved. You can look at this a lot of ways, and they all dovetail together nicely, but all I know is that the sign was brushed past and I consider The Return to be the most layered work of art I've ever seen from a thematic perspective and Lynch's most intellectually demanding film, so my belief is that Lynch intended to blow past the sign in the same way he intended to subvert countless other expectations. All of it combines to hold meaning. Now, if Lynch just managed to do what feels right and really didn't think it through on the multi-layered level it seems he (and Frost) did, I'm okay with that too, because he's tapping into something deeper like he always has. The ideas are still there, especially when so many are stacked on top of one another that the overall impression is hard to ignore.

I don't think The Return is anti-nostalgia, and in fact have argued against that; rather, I think it is an interrogation of nostalgia. But in the end I think that the idea of The Return is that looking back to the past isn't beneficial...unless of course you think the ending is a happy one, which I'm actually open to. But what we see is that Cooper meddles with the past and erases all that we hold dear, and seems to wind up worse off. It's open to interpretation, but that's certainly a pretty obvious way of looking at the finales.
Last edited by LateReg on Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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yaxomoxay
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby yaxomoxay » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:38 pm

NormoftheAndes wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
NormoftheAndes wrote:
You honestly thought that to yourself whilst watching that scene? Since Lynch is clearly not fond of psychological analysis of the meaning of what he is shooting, I don't think that was the intention too much. I am quite surprised when I hear fans talking about the new season being an exercise in anti-nostalgia as I didn't get that impression at all - if anything, I did pick up quite a lot of nostalgia in The Return, but filled with sadness.

I can't see Lynch or Frost having some message to send that looking back is a bad idea. The shot from the Mitchums' car as Cooper rapidly enters the town zooms past the town sign in a blur - encapsulating everything about part 17 and its rushed, hazy feel - as if we're never really truly in Twin Peaks. Dare I say it, we see things in a dream-like way.


No.
It’s like sex.
Slow preliminaries, foreplay, a longish actual mechanical activity.
Then a few seconds of total, overwhelming pleasure.
Then everything slows down, up to complete silence/sleep.

( Then bring me some oxygen to recover :) , but don’t tell anyone)


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Did you post this in the wrong topic? I can't understand what you're rabbiting on about! :lol:


Well, sex sells :)
It’s a comment on your comment about part 17 being rushed rushed (and the 0.5 seconds we see the TP sign).


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NormoftheAndes
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby NormoftheAndes » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:44 pm

Late Reg - yes, an interrogation of nostalgia is a great way of describing it. The Cahiers du Cinema interview with Lynch details how he says the season ends in the Hindu Iron age, which is not a good one overall, so yes its not a clearly happy ending. But there is still room for a continuation and more happiness in further ages of Twin Peaks is what Lynch suggests.

In terms of Cooper going back in time and saving Laura, I don't see any of that as ACTUALLY happening but it must be something buried deep in Dale's psyche - that he feels like the past should be changed, if such a thing were possible. Having been stuck in the Lodge for 25 years could have made him feel like that for one thing, I suppose. :shock:
LateReg
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby LateReg » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:56 pm

NormoftheAndes wrote:Late Reg - yes, an interrogation of nostalgia is a great way of describing it. The Cahiers du Cinema interview with Lynch details how he says the season ends in the Hindu Iron age, which is not a good one overall, so yes its not a clearly happy ending. But there is still room for a continuation and more happiness in further ages of Twin Peaks is what Lynch suggests.

In terms of Cooper going back in time and saving Laura, I don't see any of that as ACTUALLY happening but it must be something buried deep in Dale's psyche - that he feels like the past should be changed, if such a thing were possible. Having been stuck in the Lodge for 25 years could have made him feel like that for one thing, I suppose. :shock:


I can see that. I've believed that Cooper finally escapes the lodge at the beginning of Part 18, but possibly not before that. But perhaps, given Diane's attire, he has not yet escaped and is indeed stuck on envisioning a change that is impossible, yet needs to occur. The way you describe it - as buried deep in Dale's psyche - is where The Return lives and breathes for me, as I think it really cooks as a non-narrative series of ideas.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:19 pm

DKL is great at manipulating mood and contrasting different moods (in the interview posted yesterday, I think Mark says he believes DKL is better with mood than anyone since Hitchcock). Think of the scene in LH when Pete and Alice have sex in the desert to the strains of This Mortal Coil. It’s beautiful and sexy and ethereal...and then suddenly without warning the audience is back with Fred and the Mystery Man at his most creepy. It’s a jarring contrast. There’s no message to it...the film isn’t saying that sex is bad. It’s just meant to make the audience members experience something unique and visceral by switching gears quickly, like a piece of classical music. Similarly, I don’t think S3 is saying nostalgia is good or bad. It’s just an emotional reality that is being used as a particularly potent tool in DKL’s toolbox on this particular project to do what he does best: invoke deep and unpredictable feelings in the audience. One second, in Part 16, we’re steeped in nostalgia, with the theme music playing as Dale says “I am the FBI.” Then, when we’re primed for a straightforward nostalgia trip, the show yanks the rug out. Zipping by the sign with almost no acknowledgement is definitely part of this, particularly when the prior Part primed us to be thinking about the theme song and the old intro.
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Hester Prynne » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:50 pm

LateReg wrote:
But in the end I think that the idea of The Return is that looking back to the past isn't beneficial...unless of course you think the ending is a happy one, which I'm actually open to. But what we see is that Cooper meddles with the past and erases all that we hold dear, and seems to wind up worse off. It's open to interpretation, but that's certainly a pretty obvious way of looking at the finales.


I've forgotten which poster floated the idea that the Fireman's Linda and Richard message could have been more of a warning as opposed to instructional, but I wonder if Mike's question "Is it future or is it past," could be interpreted the same way - his final words to Cooper before he leaves the lodge - instead of a literal interpretation, more of a warning not to dwell on or meddle with the past and a reminder that he is in fact living in the future. It is interesting that Mike repeats the same thing in Episode 18, despite being in a different timeline/alternate reality. While the Arm's question has changed, Mike's message stays the same, and the show ends with Cooper's confusion as to what year he's living in.
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Xavi
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Xavi » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:12 am

Hester Prynne wrote:... While the Arm's question has changed, Mike's message stays the same, and the show ends with Cooper's confusion as to what year he's living in.


I needed to laugh when I read the above and was thinking about all the disappointed fans, who expected a Season 3 full with "what they were familiar with in the old days." The "question" echoes exactly this conflict between time that has progressed and people that remain stuck in the past.

In a more general sense, the otherworldly areas in TP, Black/White Lodge, Above The Convenience Store, The Mauve World, The Giant's Palace, etc, all seem places that defeat time; probably Lynch might describe them as domains within "the timeless path."

The Fireman showed Andy all three manifestations of time; past, present and future. As a matter of fact The Fireman didn't merely show Andy, albeit he "incepted" his brain with every single detail about a time to come, and as a result all Andy needed to do, was "act on intuition." In those moments Andy was omniscient, so to speak.
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madeleineferguson
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby madeleineferguson » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:22 pm

I just started my third rewatch of Season 3 and each time, it gets even better.

I will say that I believe we've all been had. I think Season 4 has been planned all along. Maybe not definite, but at least sketched out. It's all been set up so perfectly to continue, I think.

We've no idea what more was filmed, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a ton left on the cutting room floor. If I remember correctly, according to witnesses who saw filming, the final scene with Dale & Laura in front of the Palmer house didn't just end with them standing in the street. They got back into the car and drove away together. So Season 4 could potentially pick up immediately where it left off, with film already captured from Season 3.

I think Season 4 is set up to be Sheryl Lee centric.
Poiuyt
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Poiuyt » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:02 pm

Okay, I REALLY want to know what the script ending was now...
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NormoftheAndes
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby NormoftheAndes » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:44 am

madeleineferguson wrote:I just started my third rewatch of Season 3 and each time, it gets even better.

I will say that I believe we've all been had. I think Season 4 has been planned all along. Maybe not definite, but at least sketched out. It's all been set up so perfectly to continue, I think.

We've no idea what more was filmed, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a ton left on the cutting room floor. If I remember correctly, according to witnesses who saw filming, the final scene with Dale & Laura in front of the Palmer house didn't just end with them standing in the street. They got back into the car and drove away together. So Season 4 could potentially pick up immediately where it left off, with film already captured from Season 3.

I think Season 4 is set up to be Sheryl Lee centric.


It could have been them filming driving to the house afterwards though...

But, a Sheryl Lee-heavy season would be the best ever. :P :P :P
IcedOver
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby IcedOver » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:32 am

If something more is done, how about shooting it on film or with a camcorder "Inland" style?
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yaxomoxay
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby yaxomoxay » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:00 pm

IcedOver wrote:If something more is done, how about shooting it on film or with a camcorder "Inland" style?


Nah. I enjoyed IE but it’s too distracting, and I think it doesn’t leave much visual freedom to the director.


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AgentEcho
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby AgentEcho » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:34 pm

Yeah, I liked IE and generally defend Lynch's creative choices, but as a fan of his work I am very glad he's moved on from his PD-150 days. I don't even think it would have a retro novelty kind of appeal if he went back.
IcedOver
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby IcedOver » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:54 pm

The look of this season was way too clear and hi-def, to the point that it worked against the surrealism. If anything more is done, they have to find a way to soften things up.
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Jasper
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Re: How would Lynch/Frost tackle Season Four?

Postby Jasper » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:23 am

I tend to agree when we're in the town of Twin Peaks, and in the black lodge as well, but the new digital look certainly grew on me, and I thought that places like the Fireman's home and the Jeffries motel room looked fantastic. You can take solace in the fact that the first two seasons now look even more soft and dream-like in contrast with the newer material.

Who knows, maybe there will be a season 4, and it will all be shot cinéma vérité style by James on his old VHS camera.

Image

Image

Maybe somebody could make a fanedit that doesn't remove or alter anything except for to manipulate the color and texture of the image.

Speaking of fan-made stuff, this is pretty interesting:


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