Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

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Fred
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Fred » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:37 pm

baxter wrote:I now really think that the conversation is that last thing (chronologically) that we see in the series. Cooper is very far away. He is asked to remember Richard and Linda from his past. i.e. this scene somehow shows us a future Cooper in peril being guided by the Fireman to get out of it.


I think this is correct for the following reason: After the Fireman says all this, Cooper says, "I understand", meaning that he even understands who Richard and Linda are. Earlier, in the motel, he is confused by the names Richard and Linda on the note he reads in the morning.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby yaxomoxay » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:39 pm

Fred wrote:
baxter wrote:I now really think that the conversation is that last thing (chronologically) that we see in the series. Cooper is very far away. He is asked to remember Richard and Linda from his past. i.e. this scene somehow shows us a future Cooper in peril being guided by the Fireman to get out of it.


I think this is correct for the following reason: After the Fireman says all this, Cooper says, "I understand", meaning that he even understands who Richard and Linda are. Earlier, in the motel, he is confused by the names Richard and Linda on the note he reads in the morning.


I disagree. The missing pin gives it away, and it’s too big of a “costume” change to blame it on continuity error.


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krishnanspace
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby krishnanspace » Mon May 07, 2018 12:26 am

LateReg wrote:I agree, the lack of a pin in the first scene is definitely NOT a continuity error.

On a similar note, does anyone know why Cooper wouldn't have the US Flag pin like Cole and Albert do? Is there a logical reason for that, or is it another clue?

Red Room Cooper in FWWM also does not have any pin,but the Cooper in Episode 29 has his pin in the Red Room
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krishnanspace
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby krishnanspace » Mon May 07, 2018 12:28 am

Fred wrote:
baxter wrote:I now really think that the conversation is that last thing (chronologically) that we see in the series. Cooper is very far away. He is asked to remember Richard and Linda from his past. i.e. this scene somehow shows us a future Cooper in peril being guided by the Fireman to get out of it.


I think this is correct for the following reason: After the Fireman says all this, Cooper says, "I understand", meaning that he even understands who Richard and Linda are. Earlier, in the motel, he is confused by the names Richard and Linda on the note he reads in the morning.

I just finished my first rewatch and these were my thoughts exactly.Coop is clearly confused by who Richard and Linda are, but is confident when the Fireman tells it to him
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby eyeboogers » Mon May 07, 2018 7:46 am

Fred wrote:
I think this is correct for the following reason: After the Fireman says all this, Cooper says, "I understand", meaning that he even understands who Richard and Linda are. Earlier, in the motel, he is confused by the names Richard and Linda on the note he reads in the morning.


I guess that is in the eyes of the beholder. To me hotel-Coop says "Richard and Linda" in a manner which suggests "this rings a bell, but I can't quite place it". To me this makes sense since it seems that Cooper (and Diane) seem to slowly be losing more and more of themselves - their instincts, their memories, their motives the longer they stay in the Carrie Page realm.
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Jerry Horne » Sat May 12, 2018 3:40 pm

Hasn't every B&W scene taken place in the past?
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby krishnanspace » Sat May 12, 2018 7:28 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:Hasn't every B&W scene taken place in the past?

But Andy meets the Fireman in the present
LateReg
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby LateReg » Sun May 13, 2018 4:51 pm

krishnanspace wrote:
Jerry Horne wrote:Hasn't every B&W scene taken place in the past?

But Andy meets the Fireman in the present


I'm not sure those (lodge scenes) are supposed to be considered the same kind of black and white scenes as the others (taking place in "reality" or on earth) we are shown. There is a case to be made that every scene outside the lodge that is in black and white is supposed to signify the past. Though in Andy's visions, isn't Lucy's phone shown in black and white?
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Jerry Horne
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Jerry Horne » Sun May 13, 2018 6:29 pm

A Fireman puts out fires. Made me think of this:

"When this kind of fire starts, it is very hard to put out. The tender boughs of innocence burn first, and the wind rises, and then all goodness is in jeopardy."

As for Coop's pin, I'm wondering if relates to the different timelines we are seeing.
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zeronumber
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby zeronumber » Tue May 15, 2018 7:46 am

Consider this:

Fireman can also mean one who tends fires for a steam engine;
...or a stoker.

Consider.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue May 15, 2018 8:57 am

zeronumber wrote:Consider this:

Fireman can also mean one who tends fires for a steam engine;
...or a stoker.

Consider.


Which makes the Fireman/Giant’s motivations all the more ambiguous/interesting. I suspect that, just as we learned in FWWM that Mike’s agenda was less benevolent than it appeared in the series, the Fireman is pursuing his own ends which might not be as aligned with the human characters’ interests as they appear. Note that Margaret warns Hawk, “There’s fire where you are going.” And where does Hawk go? The portal entrance that leads to the Fireman’s.......
vicksvapor77
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Wed May 23, 2018 6:52 pm

Has anyone mentioned that the "transfer" special effect over Cooper as he leaves the Fireman (in the first scene) seems to be the same one used when he appears in the woods in 1989? Is it possible as he shuts his eyes, he initally meets with the Fireman before he "goes in" to 1989? "You are far away" might refer to the fact that he's going to a time 25 years earlier. I just can't shake the same special effect being used as he exits the Fireman's and enters 1989. If the scene originated here in the script/initial edit, the effect in and out of the scene would have to match, regardless of where the scene actually ended up in the final edit (opening the show).
LateReg
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby LateReg » Wed May 23, 2018 8:27 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:Has anyone mentioned that the "transfer" special effect over Cooper as he leaves the Fireman (in the first scene) seems to be the same one used when he appears in the woods in 1989? Is it possible as he shuts his eyes, he initally meets with the Fireman before he "goes in" to 1989? "You are far away" might refer to the fact that he's going to a time 25 years earlier. I just can't shake the same special effect being used as he exits the Fireman's and enters 1989. If the scene originated here in the script/initial edit, the effect in and out of the scene would have to match, regardless of where the scene actually ended up in the final edit (opening the show).


I put this together on my last rewatch just recently as well. I can't shake the feeling that the flicker out from the Fireman's is related to the flicker in to 1989. It also makes sense because in the opening scene Cooper is given all the clues that he will need during and "directly" after his 1989 moment.

There is however one other time the flicker is used, and that is in part 15 when Mr C ascends the stairs of the convenience store.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed May 23, 2018 8:59 pm

A similar effect is also used for the disappearance of Laura’s corpse from the timeline in Part 17.
vicksvapor77
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Re: Cooper's conversation with The Fireman in episode 1 (linear and non-linear approaches)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Thu May 24, 2018 5:59 am

LateReg wrote:
vicksvapor77 wrote:Has anyone mentioned that the "transfer" special effect over Cooper as he leaves the Fireman (in the first scene) seems to be the same one used when he appears in the woods in 1989? Is it possible as he shuts his eyes, he initally meets with the Fireman before he "goes in" to 1989? "You are far away" might refer to the fact that he's going to a time 25 years earlier. I just can't shake the same special effect being used as he exits the Fireman's and enters 1989. If the scene originated here in the script/initial edit, the effect in and out of the scene would have to match, regardless of where the scene actually ended up in the final edit (opening the show).


I put this together on my last rewatch just recently as well. I can't shake the feeling that the flicker out from the Fireman's is related to the flicker in to 1989. It also makes sense because in the opening scene Cooper is given all the clues that he will need during and "directly" after his 1989 moment.

There is however one other time the flicker is used, and that is in part 15 when Mr C ascends the stairs of the convenience store.


Well said! Yes, I noticed it being used as he ascends the staircase as well. I didn't watch it closely enough to realize if it was identical though, but perhaps the effect is used when characters are moving through time or out of time or to and from different planes of existence?

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