General Discussion on Season 3 (All Opinions Welcome)

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vancurenw
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby vancurenw » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:47 am

N. Needleman wrote: Cooper couldn't accept that Laura had to die, had chosen to die, and that her story could not be rewritten by his own long-suffering savior complex. He could not accept that you can't both confront the larger evils of the world (Judy) and rework what's come before in any meaningful way. He insisted on doing that part his way because he couldn't accept his own past failings or how the world failed Laura, and so he failed himself again - and in doing so, took away Laura's own victory at the end of FWWM. (Though maybe not for long, assuming Laura remembers at the end of Part 18)


When I watched S1 and S2 as a teenager, Cooper resonated with me (and many others, I believe) as a true white knight. But with S3, and aging about 20 years, I now see him in this light. That he's eventually consumed by his savior complex. That, while good intentioned, he can't accept Laura's choice and sacrifice. And I believe he made things much worse, as you say, but taking away Laura's "victory" in FWWM.
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bowisneski
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby bowisneski » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:52 pm

Semi related article from a few years back that I thought was really good and found very relevant to this show https://tv.avclub.com/did-the-sopranos-do-more-harm-than-good-hbo-and-the-d-1798229946
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Saturn's child
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Saturn's child » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:07 am

bowisneski wrote:Semi related article from a few years back that I thought was really good and found very relevant to this show


Interesting indeed.

I like the balance a few 90s TV shows had between standalone episodes & mythology arcs. In X-Files, for example -- particularly the earlier seasons -- the standalone eps were self-contained little movies almost & could be referred to as such (eg: "did you see the one with the flukeman?"), but then you'd get a double episode of mythology to move along the alien/conspiracy arc.
When balanced well I thought it really worked.

Millennium too, although they also had the nifty little conceit of "there are ___ days remaining" to keep the arc ominously in the background.
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bowisneski
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby bowisneski » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:50 pm

Saturn's child wrote:
bowisneski wrote:Semi related article from a few years back that I thought was really good and found very relevant to this show


Interesting indeed.

I like the balance a few 90s TV shows had between standalone episodes & mythology arcs. In X-Files, for example -- particularly the earlier seasons -- the standalone eps were self-contained little movies almost & could be referred to as such (eg: "did you see the one with the flukeman?"), but then you'd get a double episode of mythology to move along the alien/conspiracy arc.
When balanced well I thought it really worked.

Millennium too, although they also had the nifty little conceit of "there are ___ days remaining" to keep the arc ominously in the background.

I think LOST did pretty good with that too until Season 4. The flashbacks and self contained Island B story worked really well in tandem with the main Island story. I know some decried the episodes that were more standalone as filler, but that's where some really nice character development came from.

No that I mind the way The Return went about it, I love the novelistic approach, but I thought the article made some good points about the fact that television is setup to be episodic.
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bowisneski
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby bowisneski » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:11 pm

This blog post from Chrysta Bell details some of her experience behind the scenes on The Return as well as the story of her song "Blue Rose". I've included the Peaks parts below.

When One Door Closes
I had never indulged in one moment of fantasy about being in Twin Peaks if it did actually return. Even after all the years of collaboration with David, it just never crossed my mind that he would ask me to be a part of it. But I had been short sighted. Looking back, I can see now that the process of creating two albums together was also a 15- year audition for a different gig!

During a coffee break in one of our final recording sessions for Somewhere in The Nowhere, David coyly revealed to me that “there may be a role for you in my new project”. I had been emotionally preparing for the chapter of our artistic collaboration days coming to a end, and suddenly David presents a riveting plot twist. True to form, he kept pertinent details about the role shrouded with intrigue for a long time after initially approaching the subject, dispersing small, tantalizing morsels about my character over the course of many months. The drip feed of intel left me starving for answers to my burning questions: Was it a walk-on part or a larger role? Does the part involve me singing at some point? Who would I be working with? Am I going to die on the show? I was fully lit up by this unexpected development and my excitement and curiosity were all- consuming from that moment forward.

The Number 8
Many months passed before I was finally invited to read the script and get some of my questions answered. I drove to the Rancho Rosa office in Van Nuys, California, on August 25, 2015, bubbling with nerves. After checking in with reception I had a quick meeting with David who was all smiles. He knew I was about to dive in and was quite aware I was dying of suspense by that point. He sent me to the office next door where a friendly brunette man handed me a thick script. I asked him if it was for the entire show. When he smiled and told to me that no, these were only my scenes from the full script, I had my first inner meltdown of the day.

I noticed my character name had the number 8 next to it (I happen to have this number tattooed on my inner left ankle) and I asked the man what that meant. He told me it referenced how much screen time my character has, thus, Tammy had the 8th most screen time of all the characters in the show. I tried to stay cool but I am sure the look on my face was anything but. My heart started beating triple time and I could feel my body heat rising. My biggest fear and simultaneously my grandest hope had just been revealed to me: I have a big part in this thing. As I walked out of his office with the stack of papers in my sweaty hand, I dissolved into a nervous euphoria which devolved into raging self doubt: How am I going to pull this off? Has David lost his fucking mind?

Under the florescent bulbs in the empty production office where I was sent to look over the script, I sat down and tried to collect myself. I was dying of curiosity and trembling with trepidation. I took a few more deep breaths and started reading.

With every page there was an avalanche of new information and fresh mysteries unfolding. Tammy’s vague silhouette was being being filled in with bold colors and subtle shading. I was finally meeting her formally and peeking into her preordained fate. As I read slowly and intently, it was as if I was gingerly sifting through a treasure chest of information, discovering Tammy’s interactions and fascinating dynamics with Gordon, Albert, Diane! It was overwhelming enough, and then I read the words:
I’m in.
This is what FBI Agent Tammy Preston says after being invited to become the first female member of the infamous Blue Rose Task Force.
I was overcome with this development. I think I started crying and laughing and just staring into space, all at once. The significance of my character’s initiation to the blue rose task force was astronomical. Tammy would be joining an elite FBI team that included Philip Jeffries, Gordon Cole, Dale Cooper and Albert Rosenfield and be investigating highly classified projects having to do with the paranormal. I was joining a coterie of legendary artists David Bowie, David Lynch, Kyle MacLachlan, and Miguel Ferrer bonded by a fictional task force assigned to investigate the supernatural on a prestigious legacy TV show that was incalculably important in the history of pop culture. It was almost impossible to wrap my head around. But in the moments after reading it those words, “I’m in”, I felt Tammy Preston and Chrysta Bell Zucht inextricably linked and steadfast in the acceptance of the missions being presented. Tammy was being inducted into the Blue Rose Task Force and I was being inducted into Twin Peaks. In both cases, any hint of dubiousness of our worthiness of the position had been tempered once the gauntlet had been thrown down. We both would strive to pass every test. We each accepted with a sense of elation mixed with fear, but total unwavering commitment.

As I continued reading the script, waves of understanding rippled through me and my participation in Twin Peaks: The Return started to make sense. David and I, like Gordon and Tammy, have an easy repartee and strong mutual respect. David has been a mentor for me in many ways and always offered thoughtful counsel. He had championed me to others when it really mattered and believed in me as a musician and performer, just as Gordon believes “Agent Tammy Preston has the stuff.” As wild and out-of-the-blue as this opportunity felt, it was dawning on me that it was completely appropriate. As I let it all sink into my consciousness, it felt as if I was reading an ancient poem that eloquently expressed a deep and powerful emotion I had never before been able to describe in words.

I finished reading the script and left the production office in a daze. I think I said goodbye to David but I don’t remember. My bewilderment over the circumstance in which I found myself reverberated over days and months. As the actuality of this destiny began to crystallize, so did the blue rose symbol in my consciousness. It became a fixture in my self identity; the tidy icon of my wild and rampant vortex of feelings around becoming a part of the Twin Peaks Universe.
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N. Needleman
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby N. Needleman » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:43 am

Chrysta took a lot of shit, but like so many others she added a very unique presence and flavor to the show. I can understand why Lynch cast her, because her green acting ability (which wasn't bad!) was so often offset by a natural awkwardness or mannerism that made her as peculiar as the rest of the FBI characters. The improvised scene with Gordon, Diane and Tammy outside as she watches the two old friends smoke is a classic.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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mtwentz
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby mtwentz » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:06 pm

N. Needleman wrote:Chrysta took a lot of shit, but like so many others she added a very unique presence and flavor to the show. I can understand why Lynch cast her, because her green acting ability (which wasn't bad!) was so often offset by a natural awkwardness or mannerism that made her as peculiar as the rest of the FBI characters. The improvised scene with Gordon, Diane and Tammy outside as she watches the two old friends smoke is a classic.


I warmed up to Chrysta by about midway through the season. There's still a part of me, if I'm honest with myself, who would love to have seen what a more experienced actress would have done with that role.

I thought she did really well in the shootout scene with Tulpa Diane.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:30 pm

I just imagined a 90's Season 3 in which it would have been Audrey, having pursued her dreams of becoming an FBI agent, that accompanies Gordon and Albert. In this imagined series, the role of "Diane" would have been intertwined with hers, so that her past history with Dale is what propels her interest and involvement in the case, with Richard a dark secret that neither of her partners are aware of. And of course her Roadhouse dance and sudden awakening would still happen and subsequently cast doubt on the validity of her previous scenes. Meanwhile Mr. C would continue to leave messages for Diane even 25 years later. Or something like that anyway. Just imagine it on VHS though, that's what I did.
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N. Needleman
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby N. Needleman » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:16 pm

I have never bought into the FBI Agent Audrey thing. It just never made sense to me. I did buy her as a business tycoon in training, something the writers claimed Sherilyn pushed for between seasons to mature the character, but which Sherilyn and most fans seem to have ended up hating. I thought her inheriting Ben's throne made sense. Different strokes.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:00 pm

I'm with you on that and think she played it really well. Man, if only they'd focused on that more and dropped J.J. Wheeler.

I just happened to be envisioning the season filmed a decade or so earlier, and pictured her roped into the Gordon and Albert outing. Audrey is who first came to mind back when I watched the show and Cole inquired about where "she" lives. Another thing that spurred it on was recalling her brief scene with Denise, and the wonder she seemed to display at the prospect.

In that sudden thought I had kind of pictured her role absorbing the Diane elements.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby eyeboogers » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:18 pm

N. Needleman wrote:I have never bought into the FBI Agent Audrey thing. It just never made sense to me. I did buy her as a business tycoon in training, something the writers claimed Sherilyn pushed for between seasons to mature the character, but which Sherilyn and most fans seem to have ended up hating. I thought her inheriting Ben's throne made sense. Different strokes.


Agree, also she tried her hand as a detective by going undercover at One Eyed Jacks. She learned that she was not very good at it. Business-sense seemed to run in the genes though, and made perfect sense.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby LateReg » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:26 pm

Mr. Strawberry wrote:I'm with you on that and think she played it really well. Man, if only they'd focused on that more and dropped J.J. Wheeler.

I just happened to be envisioning the season filmed a decade or so earlier, and pictured her roped into the Gordon and Albert outing. Audrey is who first came to mind back when I watched the show and Cole inquired about where "she" lives. Another thing that spurred it on was recalling her brief scene with Denise, and the wonder she seemed to display at the prospect.

In that sudden thought I had kind of pictured her role absorbing the Diane elements.


Those are interesting scenarios to consider, especially had this been filmed way back when.

But you inadvertently bring up something that I still find very interesting, and something that could serve as a prime example of where most audience's heads are at concerning a property that they know and love, as well as how audiences view a property as trapped in amber (Audrey is OUR connection to Cooper, but she's merely a drop in the ocean as far as Cooper's life before and since the original series is concerned), as well as an example of The Return's modus operandi and how it often subverted such audience expectations by simply sticking to a more realistic approach to a 25 years later storyline (which says a lot about how we process entertainment, as well as the usual methods of making said entertainment). We've gone over this ad nauseum - that is, Audrey's role in this vs. Diane's - but I still can't believe that anyone would have thought that anyone other than Diane is who Cole/Albert were talking about in that moment. I know a lot of people did, of course. Anecdotally, a lot of my own friends thought it was either Audrey or Sarah Palmer due to the former's love for Cooper and the latter's psychic abilities (and fondness for drink). And I know that it was intentionally open to speculation, and that as soon as it's said - at the end of an episode, no less - one is expected to envision different possible scenarios. I'm not saying you truly expected it to be Audrey, but there were a lot of people who did and...well, that never made a lick of sense to me. But, I admit it would have made a lot of sense in almost any other revival, which is why I think it's a really great example of how audiences generally think about films/series as self-contained and how they form attachments to certain characters, how plot is generally expected to revolve around a defined set of characters regardless of how important they were or how much time those characters actually spent together (in the case of Cooper and Audrey - not much!), and how Lynch/Frost approached the narrative as well as teased audience expectations.
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Audrey Horne » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:28 pm

Eye roll a thousand (but with love)

She wasn’t good at it because it’s a tv story and it needs opposition. She only really worked as a character as a mini detective who was too impatient and should’ve kept getting in over her head. You know because it’s a tv show. Um, the whole returning the favor and saving Cooper with the blackmail photos and meeting a future inspiration in Denise. The sudden business woman plot took off any edge and complexity to the character, but then all the characters lost their edge by then.

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Audrey Horne
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby Audrey Horne » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:31 pm

Ha, and funny though looking back to when the show first aired, I never thought much about Leland or he’ll, even Laura Palmer. It was pretty much the Cooper, Audrey, Donna, and I guess Truman show as the main protagonist. Whenever Leland had a scene, I was like oh yeah that guy.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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John Justice Wheeler
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Re: General Discussion on the New Series (All Opinions Welcome)

Postby John Justice Wheeler » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:16 pm

Mr. Strawberry wrote:I'm with you on that and think she played it really well. Man, if only they'd focused on that more and dropped J.J. Wheeler.

No!

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