Theories & Speculation

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:50 am

I personally don’t view the Part 18 credits as a literal part of the narrative progression, per se. I think DKL wanted us to be able to dream about what happens after Laura screams and the lights go out. I view the credits more as a thematic wrap-up than a literal one. Although I do think DKL viewed it as important on a story level to REMIND us of the whisper at the end, I don’t know that Dale literally relived it at the end of Part 18. But who knows!
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Xavi
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Xavi » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:21 am

Image

In less than an eye wink from Buenes Aires to FBI HQ in San Fransisco. Even the scream looks familiar, doesn't it? What was that question Phillip Jeffries asked just before he disappeared again (TPTMP 2'57")? What more does one need to fill in the dots?

Poiuyt
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Poiuyt » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:27 am

Judy is an extreme negative force. Judy, as Sarah, was inhabiting the Palmer house. When Carrie screams, the lights in the house go from an extreme positive state (all on) to an extreme negative one (all off). Judy has come alive.

That's my take. It could change tomorrow.
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mtwentz
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby mtwentz » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:40 pm

Poiuyt wrote:Judy is an extreme negative force. Judy, as Sarah, was inhabiting the Palmer house. When Carrie screams, the lights in the house go from an extreme positive state (all on) to an extreme negative one (all off). Judy has come alive.

That's my take. It could change tomorrow.

I hope Laura didn't send mandkind back to the Stone Age (no electricity).
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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krishnanspace
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby krishnanspace » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:05 pm

mtwentz wrote:
Poiuyt wrote:Judy is an extreme negative force. Judy, as Sarah, was inhabiting the Palmer house. When Carrie screams, the lights in the house go from an extreme positive state (all on) to an extreme negative one (all off). Judy has come alive.

That's my take. It could change tomorrow.

I hope Laura didn't send mandkind back to the Stone Age (no electricity).

Well, electricity is modern day fire
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Soolsma
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Soolsma » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:47 pm

Just jump in a campfire and pop out of a car's lighter socket. 8)
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krishnanspace
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby krishnanspace » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:49 am

Soolsma wrote:Just jump in a campfire and pop out of a car's lighter socket. 8)

Hmm.. Seems like a good idea
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mtwentz
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby mtwentz » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:41 am

krishnanspace wrote:
mtwentz wrote:
Poiuyt wrote:Judy is an extreme negative force. Judy, as Sarah, was inhabiting the Palmer house. When Carrie screams, the lights in the house go from an extreme positive state (all on) to an extreme negative one (all off). Judy has come alive.

That's my take. It could change tomorrow.

I hope Laura didn't send mandkind back to the Stone Age (no electricity).

Well, electricity is modern day fire


At least according to Tommy "Hawk" Hill :-)
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
Poiuyt
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Poiuyt » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:21 am

You know, other than Cole and Jeffries, Hawk seems like the type to remember the "unofficial version" of Twin Peaks (more grounded than most)... Cooper and Laura (or were they still Richard and Carrie at the end?) could sure use his help in this new, scary world...
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krishnanspace
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby krishnanspace » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:59 am

Poiuyt wrote:You know, other than Cole and Jeffries, Hawk seems like the type to remember the "unofficial version" of Twin Peaks (more grounded than most)... Cooper and Laura (or were they still Richard and Carrie at the end?) could sure use his help in this new, scary world...

I thought that too.In part 17 when Coop says, "Now there are some things that are going to change", he looks at Hawk and Hawks nods as if he knows what's going to happen and he is prepared for it.Maybe the change and memory loss is Black rain?
Poiuyt
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Poiuyt » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:17 am

krishnanspace wrote:
Poiuyt wrote:You know, other than Cole and Jeffries, Hawk seems like the type to remember the "unofficial version" of Twin Peaks (more grounded than most)... Cooper and Laura (or were they still Richard and Carrie at the end?) could sure use his help in this new, scary world...

I thought that too. In part 17 when Coop says, "Now there are some things that are going to change", he looks at Hawk and Hawks nods as if he knows what's going to happen and he is prepared for it. Maybe the change and memory loss is Black rain?


Great catch! I completely forgot about Hawk's nod to Cooper when I wrote that. And yes, Hawk had the map, so he might have been primed to remember.
Poiuyt
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Poiuyt » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:46 pm

Unrealized thesis: "'Cossacks Are in Russia': Judy, the Cold War, and the Doctrine of Containment"
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krishnanspace
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby krishnanspace » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:41 pm

Poiuyt wrote:
krishnanspace wrote:
Poiuyt wrote:You know, other than Cole and Jeffries, Hawk seems like the type to remember the "unofficial version" of Twin Peaks (more grounded than most)... Cooper and Laura (or were they still Richard and Carrie at the end?) could sure use his help in this new, scary world...

I thought that too. In part 17 when Coop says, "Now there are some things that are going to change", he looks at Hawk and Hawks nods as if he knows what's going to happen and he is prepared for it. Maybe the change and memory loss is Black rain?


Great catch! I completely forgot about Hawk's nod to Cooper when I wrote that. And yes, Hawk had the map, so he might have been primed to remember.

One more thing to note was Hawk's warning about Black Fire.Nothing like that occured
Rik Renault
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Re: RE: Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby Rik Renault » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:59 am

krishnanspace wrote:
Poiuyt wrote:
krishnanspace wrote:I thought that too. In part 17 when Coop says, "Now there are some things that are going to change", he looks at Hawk and Hawks nods as if he knows what's going to happen and he is prepared for it. Maybe the change and memory loss is Black rain?


Great catch! I completely forgot about Hawk's nod to Cooper when I wrote that. And yes, Hawk had the map, so he might have been primed to remember.

One more thing to note was Hawk's warning about Black Fire.Nothing like that occured
I feel like there was something resembling black fire in some Red Room scenes. Maybe with Tulpa Diane/Mr C? Sorry i can't remember more specifically.

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LateReg
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Re: Theories & Speculation

Postby LateReg » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:28 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I think we need to be more precise when talkiing about “Dougie” in this context. We have (1) Dougie-A, created by Mr. C “for a purpose”; (2) Dougie-Coop, the incarnation of “our” Dale we spend most of the season with; and (3) Dougie-B, created by Dale to go home to his family.

I assume Rik Renault is referring to number (2) above. I’m not convinced that Dougie-Coop is necessarily a separate aspect of Dale’s personality per se. In the interview with Mark that was posted this week, he referred to this characterization as Dale stripped to a nub and reentering the world as an infant, having to relearn how to become some version of himself. DKL expressed a similar sentiment in EW after the first four Parts had been released, in a rather shocking moment of transparency. I guess there’s an argument that your stripped-down “clean slate”-self is an aspect of your personality, but I’m not seeing much of DougieCoop in “Richard.”

As to the other two Dougies, I believe that when a tulpa-self is created, the original gives up some aspects of himself. Hence, the gleeful DoppelCoop we saw in Episode 29 has become the dour and joyless Mr. C, having presumably given Dougie-A his passion for sinful behavior (sex/infidelity/prostitutes, gambling, drinking, gluttony, etc.), but without the trademark Cooper cunning and ambition, which Mr. C retained.

Likewise, while I agree that “Richard” represents an integration of “our” Dale and the doppelganger, he has once again sacrificed aspects of himself to create Dougie-B for Janey-E and Sonny Jim — namely, his warmth and his joyfulness/zest for life (note how passionless he is when he sips his coffee — he’s incapable of enjoying it). In that regard, I don’t believe Part 18 Cooper is a full integration of Dale, as he is still missing something, in this case due to a conscious and selfless sacrifice.

Obviously all this is open to interpretation, but that’s the reading that to me seems most consistent with what we were given.


I think I've posted before that Cooper may have sacrificed some part of himself to make that last Dougie tulpa. The major evidence for that is when Dougie-B arrives at Janey-E's, the cut goes directly from the red curtains to the red door, emphasizing the possible unreality (psychological headspace?) of the haunting connection between the Red Room and Cooper's time in Vegas, and the music is the "Accident/Farewell Theme," which emphasizes a departure, just as it has throughout the entire series up to that point.

So I don't see much of Dougie in Richard. But I do think that Dougie is a major component of Cooper's identity, or at the very least is a representation of major components. He's all that's good, he has all of the intuitive attributes that help him solve crime, navigate life and make lives better without any of the occasional cockiness of the original Cooper. In other words, he's the exact opposite of Mr. C. I certainly think Dougie is at the very least part of the study of Cooper's identity, with Mr. C and Dougie being at opposite ends of the spectrum. That doesn't negate Dougie's status as a newborn, as stripping him to a nub implies that the character would contain only Dale's essence. When you combine Mr. C with Dougie-Coop, you pretty much get the Cooper we know and love, I think; whereas Richard is basically the original Cooper fully accepting his shadow self (Mr. C?) and realistically losing his purest self (Dougie?).

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