Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

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N. Needleman
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Wed May 16, 2018 12:06 pm

Kilmoore wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:Somehow I think both they and I can live with that.

Oh I'm fully aware they don't give a shit about Twin Peaks or its fans.


K
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Thu May 17, 2018 2:28 am

IcedOver wrote:
Gabriel wrote:My reaction’s been more straightforward: last weekend, I took my complete Twin Peaks Blu-Ray box set, my David Lynch movie Blu-ray set, the Secret History, Secret Diary and My Life, My Tapes books and Crazy Clown Time CD to my local charity shop.

The new show ended my decades-long affection for David Lynch’s work, so there was no point in leaving everything gathering dust. I’m unlikely to want to watch, read or listen any of them again: the original Twin Peaks is tainted by the new show and I can’t look at any of the films the same way again. If there’s more Twin Peaks released, I won’t bother to watch it. Once you’re done, I think you’re done for good and it’s better to make the break. Still it was mostly fun while it lasted.


That might be the most extreme reaction I've heard to disappointment over a work. Was it so bad to you that you had to give away even stuff from the past? I'm over 50 percent disappointed with the show, but that doesn't affect my affection for past works. Did you just donate it, then, without compensation?


Same here a few weeks ago. I had mf signed secret history, secret diaries (3x, signed) all the rare and huge foreign posters for fwwm, press kits, handbills, a dL/Charlotte and jack nance’s “ghost” signed EH poster, star pics cards, the dale books, the board game, cd’s, cassettes, all of the Lynch stuff ever on VHS and R1&2 DVD multiple versions, about 20 books on Lynch including air is on fire and images and Boise snowmen and distorted nudes. I had a piece of bark from the original log and I smoked it. Burned what fit in the fireplace and donated the rest.

Feel like an ex-junkie looking back on the days when the drug dominated everything (the time, the money, the singleminded passion) Or Dougie Jones waking up, knowing everything that’s transpired, from a waking coma of habit into a stupid dystopia.

As for Freddie and BOB- in the BTS, DKL even says he has no idea what to do with that scene before shooting it, definitely making it up as he went along down to the 11th hour. And this last minute improv was NOT effective.
Last edited by sylvia_north on Thu May 17, 2018 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu May 17, 2018 2:35 am

sylvia_north wrote:
IcedOver wrote:
Gabriel wrote:My reaction’s been more straightforward: last weekend, I took my complete Twin Peaks Blu-Ray box set, my David Lynch movie Blu-ray set, the Secret History, Secret Diary and My Life, My Tapes books and Crazy Clown Time CD to my local charity shop.

The new show ended my decades-long affection for David Lynch’s work, so there was no point in leaving everything gathering dust. I’m unlikely to want to watch, read or listen any of them again: the original Twin Peaks is tainted by the new show and I can’t look at any of the films the same way again. If there’s more Twin Peaks released, I won’t bother to watch it. Once you’re done, I think you’re done for good and it’s better to make the break. Still it was mostly fun while it lasted.


That might be the most extreme reaction I've heard to disappointment over a work. Was it so bad to you that you had to give away even stuff from the past? I'm over 50 percent disappointed with the show, but that doesn't affect my affection for past works. Did you just donate it, then, without compensation?


Same here a few weeks ago. I had mf signed secret history, secret diaries (3x, signed) all the rare and huge foreign posters for fwwm, press kits, handbills, a dL/Charlotte and jack nance’s “ghost” signed EH poster, star pics cards, the dale books, the board game, cd’s, cassettes, all of the Lynch stuff ever on VHS and R1&2 DVD multiple versions, about 20 books on Lynch including air is on fire and images and Boise snowmen and distorted nudes. I had a piece of bark from the original log and I smoked it. Burned what fit in the fireplace and donated the rest.

Feel like an ex-junkie looking back on the days when the drug dominated everything (the time, the money, the singleminded passion) Or Dougie Jones waking up, knowing everything that’s transpired, from a waking coma of habit into a stupid dystopia.


Uhhh you could have sold some of that. Jack Nance autographs are in short supply, I would have paid good money for that.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Thu May 17, 2018 2:45 am

[quote="Mr. Reindeer"... Jack Nance autographs are in short supply...[/quote]

Charlotte was signing for Jack (something she does/has done.) the wind actually picked up the poster while she was signing his and she said “It’s Jack!” tho so maybe it was :wink:

The one thing that did survive was a Paula K dead Laura Barbie signed by everyone at the twin peaks reunion signing in Burbank CA , including Michael Parks RIP. Make an offer? :lol: I didn’t want to smell the burning plastic.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu May 17, 2018 2:56 am

Ahh gotcha. i wasn’t aware of that practice. See, you’re way more of a superfan than I am. ;)
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby IcedOver » Thu May 17, 2018 9:01 am

sylvia_north wrote:Same here a few weeks ago. I had mf signed secret history, secret diaries (3x, signed) all the rare and huge foreign posters for fwwm, press kits, handbills, a dL/Charlotte and jack nance’s “ghost” signed EH poster, star pics cards, the dale books, the board game, cd’s, cassettes, all of the Lynch stuff ever on VHS and R1&2 DVD multiple versions, about 20 books on Lynch including air is on fire and images and Boise snowmen and distorted nudes. I had a piece of bark from the original log and I smoked it. Burned what fit in the fireplace and donated the rest.


This is a joke, right?
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NormoftheAndes
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby NormoftheAndes » Thu May 17, 2018 9:28 am

Kilmoore wrote:
NormoftheAndes wrote:Total nonsense. It is readily apparent that Frost and Lynch both care about the fans and Twin Peaks.

Completely ignoring most of the continuity, dismissing characters such as Cooper to side notes and contradicting every theme and mood in the original speak loudly to the contrary.

What they wanted to do was a Dougie story. They couldn't get funding, so they painted the Twin Peaks -title on it and got to work. Any Twin Peaks connection in S3 is shoddy, disjointed, full of plot holes and ends up going nowhere.

Let's face it, they're the ones who walked away from Twin Peaks after season 1, and haven't looked back. They admitted that the only watched the pilot episode before writing S3. They don't care.


Well ok, I would like to mention first off I am not an apologist for season 3 - I don't think its perfect by any means. Its flawed, this was Lynch getting back into directing and he did use this opportunity as something of an art experiment. I feel he could have done with more guidance and help from Frost but I think Mark just let him go his own way a lot.

Yes, s3 is disjointed and the narrative just dead-ends the majority of characters and situations - even the ending is the same. It all parallels with itself, but that doesn't mean it is great. I really think that Frost and Lynch saw s3 as the 'doppleganger' season and that's why we have unsatisfying stories, character situations and a lack of mood. No shot of trees blowing in the wind seductively as such (instead we get speeded-up footage of trees trembling), only mention of damn GOOD coffee, not damn FINE as we know it should be. Something was majorly off all the way through this season.

Inept and just silly vortex special effects - nobody can seriously think that Lynch thought that effect was mysterious and of a quality Twin Peaks deserves? The boy being ran over suddenly - only one mention of this in the entire 18 hours after that.

So if you were disappointed, I fully understand that. But I don't think for sure that all they wanted to do was a Dougie movie. They just wanted to do something opposed to the Twin Peaks we know and love. Why else is the only owl we (sort of) see in the whole season visible in Las Vegas? :shock:

For those who really wanted a romantic scene of Cooper back in the Double R - which I really did - this was a letdown of course. But I genuinely think that's coming in the REAL return of season 4. As much as this season did piss fans off, there's still a big fanbase and appetite for Twin Peaks.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby bowisneski » Thu May 17, 2018 10:10 am

missoulamt wrote:Isn't the big difference between the original and S3 that you became invested in the characters of the former, but almost not at all with those in S3?


There are a lot of things I agree with to at least some extent in this thread, but this is one that I don't understand. Unless you're just talking about the number of new characters that I became invested in, because that was definitely less than the amount of new characters I became invested in in the original. But, I think that is just because there were continuing investments.

New character-wise, by the end of the season I was invested in the Mitchum bros and the Jones family, and I had been invested in Bill Hastings. Of the returning characters I found myself invested in the Briggs family, Cooper, the Palmer family, Hawk, the Log Lady, and Carl Rodd.

Which is close in amount to who I was invested in in the original series, those being Cooper, Ben and Jerry, Doc Hayward, the Palmer family, the Briggs family, Shelly, Big Ed and Norma, Hawk, the Log Lady, and Pete.

But, of course, it all depends on what you mean by "invested in". Depending on your definition, both of those lists could change up quite a bit.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Thu May 17, 2018 10:39 am

NormoftheAndes wrote:
For those who really wanted a romantic scene of Cooper back in the Double R - which I really did - this was a letdown of course. But I genuinely think that's coming in the REAL return of season 4. As much as this season did piss fans off, there's still a big fanbase and appetite for Twin Peaks.


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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Thu May 17, 2018 12:00 pm

each their own - but for me there was never the brilliance of exploring real human nature like their was in the first season. The peeling of the layers of the onion with these characters. -Bobby and Audrey being reevaluated with their respective Jacoby and crying in the corner scenes as an example. Lynch and co can go off and be as metaphysical and surreal as possible but for me if its not grounded in human truth it doesn't really work for me (in this particular world.)
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby NormoftheAndes » Thu May 17, 2018 3:45 pm

Agent Earle wrote:
NormoftheAndes wrote:
For those who really wanted a romantic scene of Cooper back in the Double R - which I really did - this was a letdown of course. But I genuinely think that's coming in the REAL return of season 4. As much as this season did piss fans off, there's still a big fanbase and appetite for Twin Peaks.


You still believe in Santa Claus, do you?


There's some great people on this forum but you're the kind of fan who gives Twin Peaks a bad name - a negative troll. :cry: Oh and yeah, I do believe in Jingle Dell.

I know you're trolling but what point are you making? None I suppose, but for the sake of discussing a tv show/ film which means a lot to me, it is obvious that Twin Peaks still has a big fan-base and that there is an appetite for more. Please provide any proof from Lynch or Frost that they are completely done with Twin Peaks. Only the other day Kyle was interviewed and he said he'd love for the show to continue.

Regarding the direction of a story, there is simply no way that they would continue in the same fashion as season 3. That's an entity unto itself. :o Lynch gave an interview where he made it clear that the ending of season 3 is stuck in the 'bronze age' and not the 'golden age' (the ideal) - see Cahiers du Cinema.....https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comments/81rhp2/all_the_complete_interview_with_david_lynch_by/?st=jhb4g16r&sh=cdc278a4
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby NormoftheAndes » Thu May 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:each their own - but for me there was never the brilliance of exploring real human nature like their was in the first season. The peeling of the layers of the onion with these characters. -Bobby and Audrey being reevaluated with their respective Jacoby and crying in the corner scenes as an example. Lynch and co can go off and be as metaphysical and surreal as possible but for me if its not grounded in human truth it doesn't really work for me (in this particular world.)


Very much in agreement. I absolutely think that season 3 should have been less of an experimental project for Lynch - it is very obvious that Frost gave Lynch total freedom. Yes, Frost did contribute a lot to the script - apparently about 40% of the total, but in terms of the structure, overall path and journey the season takes, Lynch was clearly in the driver's seat. Hence we truly ended up with a 'doppleganger/ tulpa' season where Lynch decided to have obviously bad special effects (the vortex two moments for instance), throw out most of the familiar imagery and motifs from the original seasons and even in terms of the soundtrack.

I can recall MacLachlan saying that we would get an emotional journey for Cooper in s3 and so many scenes with Dougie was not what I expected from that comment. I had moments of emotional resonance when Dougie heard the 'Heartbreaking' music and we momentarily saw Cooper back in his eyes, but it was fleeting.

From this season (at least half of the episodes) I had expected some genuinely emotional scenes of Cooper coming back to the town of Twin Peaks - it need not have been dramatic at all, but maybe just haunting and sad. I truly believe that Frost and Lynch opted to go in a different direction completely and that there will be a season 4 that truly channels those more human emotions.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu May 17, 2018 4:09 pm

I agree that S3 was an entity unto itself...as was the Pilot, as was S1, as was S2 pre-killer reveal, as was s2 post-killer reveal, as was FWWM. This franchise is always evolving, as is DKL the artist. It should tell you something that this season had a fair degree of overlap with INLAND EMPIRE in terms of mood/theme, just as the original show similarly had a lot in common with his most recent film at that time, Blue Velvet. If we do indeed get more TP, it’s going to be distinct from EVERYTHING that came before. I agree with Agent Earle insofar as I think anyone who believes TP:TR was a detour/roadblock before a full-on return to owls-and-damn-fine-coffee is engaging in wishful thinking. Of course I have no evidence to back that up other than the arc/evolution of DKL’s career, but I’d bet the farm on it. If there is a S4, it’s going to be as unpredictable as TR was, if not moreso.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby NormoftheAndes » Thu May 17, 2018 4:17 pm

Ok but the Earle poster was just trolling - are you sure that's what was meant?

All fair points you make, but are you saying we'll never have a season of Twin Peaks again with a recognisable version of Cooper in it? :?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu May 17, 2018 4:55 pm

I’d characterize Earle’s response less as trolling than as a rather snide expression of his frustration/dissatisfaction with his (realistic IMO) appraisal of the future of the franchise. But I guess it’s in the eye of the beholder.

As far as a “recognizable” Cooper, I think there are two predominant schools of thought on what this season means to his character. One (which perhaps you subscribe to) is that this season split Cooper apart in order to put him back together again into the character we knew and loved. The other (my personal belief) is that this season took us inside the “true” Cooper, whereas we’d only seen the “public persona” he wanted to reveal to the world (and us) on the (much more objective) original show, and that Part 18 is perhaps the closest we’ve come to really getting to see the fully unified, honest Cooper. Let’s face it — as disappointing as it is, when you really get to know a person, no one is as charming or perfect as the guy we saw in S1-S2. I think it’s telling that L/F gave us that immensely satisfying, nostalgic, all-too-short-lived moment of “old-school” Coop with the theme music in Part 16, only to yank it away from us shortly thereafter and give us a darker version of the character that bears much stronger resemblance to Mr. C personality-wise. This season was largely about Cooper confronting some hard truths about himself, and whatever happens to him from here on, I can’t see him returning to the boy scout of the original show. (Which is not to say that he and the show won’t have a happy “ending” or reach some higher enlightened state of being...just that that potential evolution will be something entirely new, integrating everything we’ve seen, as opposed to a straightforward return to the familiar).

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