References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:40 pm

Early drafts of the Dune script contain a sequence (not in the novel) reminiscent of the Judy/vomiting scene in Part 8:
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0CE218D9-A340-421C-A81D-D91D512F6489.jpeg (52.8 KiB) Viewed 668 times


(Read the full script at http://www.duneinfo.com/Content/files/d ... _draft.pdf)

The “House by the Sea” drawing DKL gave to BUF for reference was actually sketched in the 1970s (it’s on page 78 of the Cartier Foundation coffee table book produced for their exhibition of DKL’s work).
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:06 pm

Can’t believe this hasn’t been mentioned before, but Mkchael Elphick’s “Night Porter” in The Elephant Man refers to himself as “Sunny Jim” when he’s selling tickets to see Merrick.
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:14 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Can’t believe this hasn’t been mentioned before, but Mkchael Elphick’s “Night Porter” in The Elephant Man refers to himself as “Sunny Jim” when he’s selling tickets to see Merrick.


Indeed, I'm surprised I hadn't heard that before. It's been a number of years since I've seen the film, though I was just talking about it with a friend last week. (Incidentally, since I'd never seen it, my friend strongly encouraged me to see Magic, a 1978 horror film starring Anthony Hopkins.)
Lynch in March 2016, while filming Twin Peaks: The Return: "YAY! BERNIE SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT!!!"
LateReg
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:12 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Can’t believe this hasn’t been mentioned before, but Mkchael Elphick’s “Night Porter” in The Elephant Man refers to himself as “Sunny Jim” when he’s selling tickets to see Merrick.


I noticed that on my post Return marathon. I hadn't remembered it before that. Very interesting.

Magic is worth a watch, for sure.
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:33 am

Also to be filed in the column of “can’t believe this didn’t occur to me before”: Sheryl Lee being sent down to Earth inside a shimmering orb should have immediately called to mind the final scene of W@H, in which Sheryl plays Glinda in deus ex machina mode.

BTW: I have expressed regret at my poor vocabulary choice in using the word “references” in the title of this thread, and a certain individual in the Profoundly Disappointed thread has attempted to use my unfortunate choice of words as proof that DKL is repeating himself creatively. I wish I had used the word “paralells” instead. In a passage in Room to Dream, DKL discusses the fact that an artist will inevitably be loyal to certain types of ideas, and that while he does not set out to deliberately repeat himself, “It’s like jazz. There are certain themes that appeal to you, and although there are many variations on the theme, those themes you love are always going to be there.” Since this thread and my poor word choice were specifically called out a couple of weeks ago, I’m glad DKL provided a rebuttal far more eloquent than any I could have composed.
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:38 pm

BTW: I have expressed regret at my poor vocabulary choice in using the word “references” in the title of this thread, and a certain individual in the Profoundly Disappointed thread has attempted to use my unfortunate choice of words as proof that DKL is repeating himself creatively.


Not even remotely true. But then, seeing as many fans seem virtually incapable of responding to criticisms of TR/Lynch without misrepresenting them, no real surprise.

The actual point that Mr Reindeer is referring to was this:

The attempts to gaslight us about words we can read with our own eyes brings to mind the toecurling comedy of one poster denying that a thread called 'References in The Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works' that he himself started actually contained any references in The Return to Lynch's non-TP works. For any newcomers to the thread: you've missed some spectacular mental gymnastics.


Nothing whatsoever about Lynch 'repeating himself creatively', which seems to be just another item plucked out of this individual's capacious reindeer bottom. The point is self-explanatory and difficult to misunderstand. The attempt to deny that this thread is about references in TR to Lynch's non-TP works is ludicrous, yet another of the demeaning, desperate contortions from TR fans we've had to put up with this past year.

But wait -- perhaps loads of fans other than the one who named the thread have been piling in with 'No, no -- there ARE no references in TR to Lynch's other works!'

Erm, nope. What we have is page after page of people having no problem with the word 'references' and posting dozens of instances accordingly.

So here we are with yet more gaslighting/bullshitting in the show's defence. So here we are again having to call it out, and to wonder again why people so stridently confident of their views (or so they'd have us believe) have to resort so often to laughable untruths.
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:41 pm

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."


Has the No Politics rule been revoked? If it has, I'm ready to let loose!

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Lynch in March 2016, while filming Twin Peaks: The Return: "YAY! BERNIE SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT!!!"
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:05 am

I’ve said that I regret the hastily-chosen word choice on my part, and that upon contemplation it doesn’t adequately reflect my view of what Lynch was doing in terms of revisiting these themes/motifs. I assume that a person who can draft something as pithy as “capacious reindeer bottom” has never made a poor word choice in his/her life, so I must simply beg your indulgence in imagining that we lesser mortals sometimes choose our words imperfectly, then think better of them later on. In any event, I’ve posted a quote from Lynch explaining where he was coming from in terms of the repeated imagery that has occurred throughout his career—not just on this show—and my choice of a particular word well over a year ago has little bearing on his artistic intent in light of his own words. If this stuff ticks you off so badly, then you must REALLY hate the Red Room on the original show, which is after all just a glorified self-indulgent “reference” to the Eraserhead lobby.

By the way, if you want to talk about “misrepresenting,” maybe you should include the FULL Lynch quote in your signature line, rather than misrepresenting his point by cherry-picking one sentence.

I think if you took a poll of all the users on this board, there would be fairly unanimous agreement that I’m pretty reasonable. I’ve engaged with the “profoundly disappointed,” I think the consensus was that we had some good debates where points were earned on both sides, and far from lauding anything Lynch does, I’ve been openly critical of aspects of TP:TR that didn’t work for me. But I think you and I have reached an impasse, and I really don’t think further discussion is fruitful, so this will likely be the last time I reply. I’m sure you’ll take this as me retreating with my tail between my legs, and that’s fine, but it just doesn’t seem a productive use of this board’s server space or my time to keep running in circles.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:24 am

It's amazing to me that some people come on the Internet just looking to put out negativity and start a fight. I've never heard of anyone making their life a happy and fulfilling one by trolling others' opinions on a piece of art.
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AnotherBlueRoseCase
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:29 pm

I think if you took a poll of all the users on this board, there would be fairly unanimous agreement that I’m pretty reasonable.


And I'd join in that agreement, but you're hardly perfect, and that impasse only developed when you and your partner started trying to police the content and style of a thread in which almost every comment you made flouted the OP. And if this impasse means you're going to quit that self-appointed role, then it's welcome.

mtwenz --

Every single debate I've had on this site resulted from TR admirers entering a thread with this OP:

The title says it all. There's a lot of heated and interesting debate/discussion going on in the main Season 3 threads.

This thread isn't meant for that. It is, as the title suggests, a thread in which the small minority of us who are experiencing feelings of extreme disappointment and even disillusionment can band together and rant/moan/complain to our heart's content without being told that we're not getting it.


and then completely ignoring it and telling me why my criticisms were mistaken. In other words, I didn't initiate a single discussion with a single TR admirer, him with the big bot included. Every single one was started by a TR fan telling me where I was going wrong. Every. Single. One. And many of them did so abusively. So how can I be construed as coming "on the Internet just looking to put out negativity and start a fight", to say nothing of "trolling others' opinions on a piece of art"? Not for the first time, you have claimed the exact opposite of what actually happened.

So here we are again. Yet more misrepresentation/gaslighting/hallucination from this show's admirers. We might even say there's something of a pattern here, in both these comments and fan interpretations of the show itself -- a tendency to see things that simply are not there...

But these are points for the PD thread, right? So I'll leave to your certainly-not-references and you leave us to our doubts.
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."
AnotherBlueRoseCase
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:41 pm

People might also want to brush up on the definition of 'misrepresent'. Quoting Lynch's exact words is not misrepresentation. dugpa-style misrepresentation/gaslighting would require something like "Lynch on Trump: "He's not just one of the worst presidents in history, he's the worst human being ever to walk the planet. When he appeared to reference -- sorry, not reference -- his septuagenarian dong in the primary debate it was actually a sly allusion to the ICBMs he plans to launch."
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:21 pm

Slow day?
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:28 pm

Sigh. Ok. Last response.

I’ve expressed this sentiment in the past, but the reason I continued to participate in the Profoundly Disappointed thread was not out of a desire to “police,” but because I found the conversation there consistently more interesting than in other threads that were either devoted to unanimously worshiping the show or to searching for some puzzle-box freeze-frame “break the code” approach. Most of the Profoundly Disappointed engaged in rational, level-headed debate, and challenged me to confront my own feelings about the material, which, while skewing toward admiration, are complex...as they should be for any DKL work worth its salt. The OP mlsstwrt never once asked me to back off, and frequently expressed appreciation for my contributions. Most other users that I can recall expressed similar sentiments, albeit occasionally laced with ambivalent feelings about the thread’s dual nature. If I misinterpreted the prevailing sentiment, I apologize. But I really don’t believe I did, based on the majority of what I read. In fact, I honestly don’t recall anyone but you ever criticizing my contributions to that thread at all. The thread evolved in a certain direction, and almost everyone, including the OP, seemed to be on board with that. And I never went in with the agenda of converting anyone. It makes me sad that some fans feel so crushingly let down by a property they once loved, but I have no illusions of being able to change their hearts and minds. I just wanted to discuss the show with other passionate fans who had something interesting to say, whether positive or not toward the work.

In any event, the mods have made it clear that the PD thread is 100% returned to its original mission statement, and of course I’ll honor that and steer clear (unless I want to bitch about the green glove scene), so fear not. You’re free of my “policing.”

(And yes, presenting one sentence of a broader quote which contextualizes that sentence falls comfortably within the definition of “misrepresent.”)
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Re: References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:32 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Bob = Michael Jackson?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mABW_91c_Xk


That's pretty neat.

It all adds up. "Annie are you OK?" and "How's Annie?"
Lynch in March 2016, while filming Twin Peaks: The Return: "YAY! BERNIE SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT!!!"

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