Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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N. Needleman
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Wed May 16, 2018 12:06 pm

Kilmoore wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:Somehow I think both they and I can live with that.

Oh I'm fully aware they don't give a shit about Twin Peaks or its fans.


K
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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sylvia_north
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Thu May 17, 2018 2:28 am

IcedOver wrote:
Gabriel wrote:My reaction’s been more straightforward: last weekend, I took my complete Twin Peaks Blu-Ray box set, my David Lynch movie Blu-ray set, the Secret History, Secret Diary and My Life, My Tapes books and Crazy Clown Time CD to my local charity shop.

The new show ended my decades-long affection for David Lynch’s work, so there was no point in leaving everything gathering dust. I’m unlikely to want to watch, read or listen any of them again: the original Twin Peaks is tainted by the new show and I can’t look at any of the films the same way again. If there’s more Twin Peaks released, I won’t bother to watch it. Once you’re done, I think you’re done for good and it’s better to make the break. Still it was mostly fun while it lasted.


That might be the most extreme reaction I've heard to disappointment over a work. Was it so bad to you that you had to give away even stuff from the past? I'm over 50 percent disappointed with the show, but that doesn't affect my affection for past works. Did you just donate it, then, without compensation?


Same here a few weeks ago. I had mf signed secret history, secret diaries (3x, signed) all the rare and huge foreign posters for fwwm, press kits, handbills, a dL/Charlotte and jack nance’s “ghost” signed EH poster, star pics cards, the dale books, the board game, cd’s, cassettes, all of the Lynch stuff ever on VHS and R1&2 DVD multiple versions, about 20 books on Lynch including air is on fire and images and Boise snowmen and distorted nudes. I had a piece of bark from the original log and I smoked it. Burned what fit in the fireplace and donated the rest.

Feel like an ex-junkie looking back on the days when the drug dominated everything (the time, the money, the singleminded passion) Or Dougie Jones waking up, knowing everything that’s transpired, from a waking coma of habit into a stupid dystopia.

As for Freddie and BOB- in the BTS, DKL even says he has no idea what to do with that scene before shooting it, definitely making it up as he went along down to the 11th hour. And this last minute improv was NOT effective.
Last edited by sylvia_north on Thu May 17, 2018 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu May 17, 2018 2:35 am

sylvia_north wrote:
IcedOver wrote:
Gabriel wrote:My reaction’s been more straightforward: last weekend, I took my complete Twin Peaks Blu-Ray box set, my David Lynch movie Blu-ray set, the Secret History, Secret Diary and My Life, My Tapes books and Crazy Clown Time CD to my local charity shop.

The new show ended my decades-long affection for David Lynch’s work, so there was no point in leaving everything gathering dust. I’m unlikely to want to watch, read or listen any of them again: the original Twin Peaks is tainted by the new show and I can’t look at any of the films the same way again. If there’s more Twin Peaks released, I won’t bother to watch it. Once you’re done, I think you’re done for good and it’s better to make the break. Still it was mostly fun while it lasted.


That might be the most extreme reaction I've heard to disappointment over a work. Was it so bad to you that you had to give away even stuff from the past? I'm over 50 percent disappointed with the show, but that doesn't affect my affection for past works. Did you just donate it, then, without compensation?


Same here a few weeks ago. I had mf signed secret history, secret diaries (3x, signed) all the rare and huge foreign posters for fwwm, press kits, handbills, a dL/Charlotte and jack nance’s “ghost” signed EH poster, star pics cards, the dale books, the board game, cd’s, cassettes, all of the Lynch stuff ever on VHS and R1&2 DVD multiple versions, about 20 books on Lynch including air is on fire and images and Boise snowmen and distorted nudes. I had a piece of bark from the original log and I smoked it. Burned what fit in the fireplace and donated the rest.

Feel like an ex-junkie looking back on the days when the drug dominated everything (the time, the money, the singleminded passion) Or Dougie Jones waking up, knowing everything that’s transpired, from a waking coma of habit into a stupid dystopia.


Uhhh you could have sold some of that. Jack Nance autographs are in short supply, I would have paid good money for that.
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sylvia_north
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Thu May 17, 2018 2:45 am

[quote="Mr. Reindeer"... Jack Nance autographs are in short supply...[/quote]

Charlotte was signing for Jack (something she does/has done.) the wind actually picked up the poster while she was signing his and she said “It’s Jack!” tho so maybe it was :wink:

The one thing that did survive was a Paula K dead Laura Barbie signed by everyone at the twin peaks reunion signing in Burbank CA , including Michael Parks RIP. Make an offer? :lol: I didn’t want to smell the burning plastic.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu May 17, 2018 2:56 am

Ahh gotcha. i wasn’t aware of that practice. See, you’re way more of a superfan than I am. ;)
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby IcedOver » Thu May 17, 2018 9:01 am

sylvia_north wrote:Same here a few weeks ago. I had mf signed secret history, secret diaries (3x, signed) all the rare and huge foreign posters for fwwm, press kits, handbills, a dL/Charlotte and jack nance’s “ghost” signed EH poster, star pics cards, the dale books, the board game, cd’s, cassettes, all of the Lynch stuff ever on VHS and R1&2 DVD multiple versions, about 20 books on Lynch including air is on fire and images and Boise snowmen and distorted nudes. I had a piece of bark from the original log and I smoked it. Burned what fit in the fireplace and donated the rest.


This is a joke, right?
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NormoftheAndes
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby NormoftheAndes » Thu May 17, 2018 9:28 am

Kilmoore wrote:
NormoftheAndes wrote:Total nonsense. It is readily apparent that Frost and Lynch both care about the fans and Twin Peaks.

Completely ignoring most of the continuity, dismissing characters such as Cooper to side notes and contradicting every theme and mood in the original speak loudly to the contrary.

What they wanted to do was a Dougie story. They couldn't get funding, so they painted the Twin Peaks -title on it and got to work. Any Twin Peaks connection in S3 is shoddy, disjointed, full of plot holes and ends up going nowhere.

Let's face it, they're the ones who walked away from Twin Peaks after season 1, and haven't looked back. They admitted that the only watched the pilot episode before writing S3. They don't care.


Well ok, I would like to mention first off I am not an apologist for season 3 - I don't think its perfect by any means. Its flawed, this was Lynch getting back into directing and he did use this opportunity as something of an art experiment. I feel he could have done with more guidance and help from Frost but I think Mark just let him go his own way a lot.

Yes, s3 is disjointed and the narrative just dead-ends the majority of characters and situations - even the ending is the same. It all parallels with itself, but that doesn't mean it is great. I really think that Frost and Lynch saw s3 as the 'doppleganger' season and that's why we have unsatisfying stories, character situations and a lack of mood. No shot of trees blowing in the wind seductively as such (instead we get speeded-up footage of trees trembling), only mention of damn GOOD coffee, not damn FINE as we know it should be. Something was majorly off all the way through this season.

Inept and just silly vortex special effects - nobody can seriously think that Lynch thought that effect was mysterious and of a quality Twin Peaks deserves? The boy being ran over suddenly - only one mention of this in the entire 18 hours after that.

So if you were disappointed, I fully understand that. But I don't think for sure that all they wanted to do was a Dougie movie. They just wanted to do something opposed to the Twin Peaks we know and love. Why else is the only owl we (sort of) see in the whole season visible in Las Vegas? :shock:

For those who really wanted a romantic scene of Cooper back in the Double R - which I really did - this was a letdown of course. But I genuinely think that's coming in the REAL return of season 4. As much as this season did piss fans off, there's still a big fanbase and appetite for Twin Peaks.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby bowisneski » Thu May 17, 2018 10:10 am

missoulamt wrote:Isn't the big difference between the original and S3 that you became invested in the characters of the former, but almost not at all with those in S3?


There are a lot of things I agree with to at least some extent in this thread, but this is one that I don't understand. Unless you're just talking about the number of new characters that I became invested in, because that was definitely less than the amount of new characters I became invested in in the original. But, I think that is just because there were continuing investments.

New character-wise, by the end of the season I was invested in the Mitchum bros and the Jones family, and I had been invested in Bill Hastings. Of the returning characters I found myself invested in the Briggs family, Cooper, the Palmer family, Hawk, the Log Lady, and Carl Rodd.

Which is close in amount to who I was invested in in the original series, those being Cooper, Ben and Jerry, Doc Hayward, the Palmer family, the Briggs family, Shelly, Big Ed and Norma, Hawk, the Log Lady, and Pete.

But, of course, it all depends on what you mean by "invested in". Depending on your definition, both of those lists could change up quite a bit.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Thu May 17, 2018 12:00 pm

each their own - but for me there was never the brilliance of exploring real human nature like their was in the first season. The peeling of the layers of the onion with these characters. -Bobby and Audrey being reevaluated with their respective Jacoby and crying in the corner scenes as an example. Lynch and co can go off and be as metaphysical and surreal as possible but for me if its not grounded in human truth it doesn't really work for me (in this particular world.)
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby NormoftheAndes » Thu May 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:each their own - but for me there was never the brilliance of exploring real human nature like their was in the first season. The peeling of the layers of the onion with these characters. -Bobby and Audrey being reevaluated with their respective Jacoby and crying in the corner scenes as an example. Lynch and co can go off and be as metaphysical and surreal as possible but for me if its not grounded in human truth it doesn't really work for me (in this particular world.)


Very much in agreement. I absolutely think that season 3 should have been less of an experimental project for Lynch - it is very obvious that Frost gave Lynch total freedom. Yes, Frost did contribute a lot to the script - apparently about 40% of the total, but in terms of the structure, overall path and journey the season takes, Lynch was clearly in the driver's seat. Hence we truly ended up with a 'doppleganger/ tulpa' season where Lynch decided to have obviously bad special effects (the vortex two moments for instance), throw out most of the familiar imagery and motifs from the original seasons and even in terms of the soundtrack.

I can recall MacLachlan saying that we would get an emotional journey for Cooper in s3 and so many scenes with Dougie was not what I expected from that comment. I had moments of emotional resonance when Dougie heard the 'Heartbreaking' music and we momentarily saw Cooper back in his eyes, but it was fleeting.

From this season (at least half of the episodes) I had expected some genuinely emotional scenes of Cooper coming back to the town of Twin Peaks - it need not have been dramatic at all, but maybe just haunting and sad. I truly believe that Frost and Lynch opted to go in a different direction completely and that there will be a season 4 that truly channels those more human emotions.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Fri May 18, 2018 1:55 am

Part 18 was great for me, too. It just wasn’t symmetrically of quality with the rest. It did not paint the rest of the series with gold like ep 29 and FWWM did.

I also burned my TP/Lynch stuff not in protest, or because it was a passing phase, but because 25 years is over half my life and I’m ready to move on.

I also agree with that sketches of human truth do not human truth make. It’s not enough to be self-referential and let the viewer do 90% of the interpretive work and call it a gift, like the metaphysical abstractions of the original and FWWM.

Twin Peaks, like a lot of Lynch, is attractive because of contrasts- the mundane and the fantastic. That existed in season 3, it was just the film school version of it; someone trying to make something Lynchian and failing. The Colonel said that even Elvis could’t play Elvis in the final years. An Elvis fan himself, DL should know you can be a genius and still lose your touch even if you retain your essence. It’s not negative trolling to observe this.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri May 18, 2018 5:16 am

Great post, Earle, and I certainly think your well-articulated thoughts are totally valid. I don’t have much to say in response because Needleman and MTWentz already said it all pretty perfectly. I felt something on a gut level throughout S3, which was not the case for much of late S2, and my subsequent thoughts over the past almost-a-year (!!) have been an attempt to articulate and reason through what exactly it was that the work made me feel on that initial contact (which was decidedly NOT disappointment, at least not most of the time). For me, it was and continues to be a rewarding work to engage with despite some flaws. For you, it was a frustrating piece of drivel. As Wentz said, and I think even DKL might begrudgingly agree, we’re both right. Art is subjective. I admire you for being true to your personal tastes (which I believe you have acknowledged can trend toward works that are derided as schlocky by the critical majority). It’s an admirable quality to stand by your sincere likes and dislikes when you’re in the minority, and no one should doubt that your criticisms, while occasionally snarky, come from a place of earnest desire to engage/debate. I’m also really glad that your appreciation for the original show hasn’t been tainted.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Fri May 18, 2018 5:52 am

mtwentz wrote:At the end of the day, don't we expect great art to be divisive? It's like the classic scenario where two friends go to a museum of modern art;; whatever one thinks is a work of genius the other thinks of as a piece of utter pretentious garbage.

Neither of the friends is right or wrong; the art speaks to one persons tastes, but not the other's.



Not a sentiment that hasn’t come up repeatedly. This dedicated critical thread is in general ok/happy others like it, just not sure why they need the reassurance (or concessions to it) being great on the merits OF its divisinesness. From people whose opinions they disagree with. 8) Edit: If the post was not directed at the critical but the rest of the board, I stand corrected.

Crappy art is also divisive. Literally anything anyone does is going to garner varieties of opinions, went entirely without saying
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Audrey Horne
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Sat May 19, 2018 10:07 am

To me, there’s wonderful directing and flourishes. There’s almost nothing but talented actors and performers in this overcrowded landscape. But for me, nothing to latch onto. Everything seems like a setup with no pay off. And I know most will respond to that statement of wanting things to be explained tied up with a pretty ribbon... but contrary, I feel there can be narrative payoffs with still keeping ambiguity. I know I’ve said it before but I feel there probably should’ve been a more practical structure laid out as the blueprint for the story, a real spine, backbone... and in that secure structure, then Lynch can go to town with exploring the ambiguity through direction. But as it stood now, it was just ambiguity on top on ambiguity on top of ambguity with lots of nodding characters understanding that ambiguity but not letting us in.

I think of Hawk displaying the map and presenting symbols to us but then there is real no practical journey with the map and symbols. Diane is revealed to be Janey E’s sister in what results to be just arbitrary words. Sarah attacks a man and then next installment is back in her living room. Audrey’s journey was truly exciting to me, but felt it was just the beginning and the mirror reveal should’ve kicked in the final third of episodes in which we’re bridging the fantastic with the true human condition. A character like Richard is a great addition to really explore the ramifications of rape and abuse but is just thrown away. I think Lynch and Frost are most likely really compassionate and feel for their creations, but the whole result just came off as bleak, mean spirited, and I don’t know how to articulate it, but a little irresponsible with themes of rape and abuse.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Sun May 20, 2018 1:27 pm

I actually love moments like Ed sitting in the middle of the night watching thenoutsid world go by. I like the roadhouse scenes (mostly) displaying slices of overheard life in a small town, I even like the eighteen hour sweeping scene. I think my narrative problems stem more in the mysteries the FBI is trying to unravel because it never feels grounded and keeps spiraling out of control, and like Mr. C’s quest, everything feels too ambiguous. I don’t mind ambiguity and open to interpretation as an end product... but I feel the detectives should have more concrete narrative bullet points along the way in the practical world. I like the aha moments like when Coooer deduces they are looking for a biker, and his deduction is shown through zeroing on Laura’s “holy smokes!” Occasionally I want to see the ingeuinity that I know the Lynch and Frost team are capable of.

There were a lot of good ideas in this thing, and I liked the idea of it spanning the United States and zeroing in on Peaks, I thought the concept of Mr. C (Mystery) a practical stroke of genius. As a subversion of expectations, I thought the result of Fan favorite pairing Audrey and Cooper’s union bringing forth Richard Horne ripe for exploration and bringing back the parallels of Audrey and Laura. And I also loved the idea of Audrey trapped and lost like Cooper for twenty five years... but wished the mirror reveal was episodes earlier and see her figure out how to break out of her private hell. I’m not sure Dougie really worked for me at all and the whole Vegas arc. Love Laura Dern, but still not sure about Diane being a character... or if she is then comes in to reveal the horror of the abuse and she is never seen again. Ultimately Sarah was more effective for me just by showing her sitting in her living room affected by grief ... by making her (allegedly Judy) it sort of cheapens the ramifications of real life tragedies. The reinforcing of Ed still married to Nadine needed to established almost immediately. Bobby as a cop is great... no complaints here. Just rampling on the anniversary date of the premiere.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?

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