Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

[eyeboogers]

I will say this much - regardless of what's happening, Paramount has a prime opportunity to try to get the Twin Peaks IP up off the ground again given the Showtime/CBS "merger" (is it an actual merger or just a rebranding?)

Just a rebranding, the CBS family which includes Showtime has owned most rights to Twin Peaks since around the time of the gold box DVD set.

[eyeboogers]

Frost as openly discussed how it's too early to say anything (which could mean nothing but probably means they didn't definitively close that book with P18).

Frost has specifically said that to him the story is not over.

[Histeria]

Just a rebranding, the CBS family which includes Showtime has owned most rights to Twin Peaks since around the time of the gold box DVD set.

It's not just a rebranding. Showtime is being integrated with Paramount+ and they've turned their whole short, mid and long-term strategy upside down. Previously you had to subscribe to two of their streaming services to get all three seasons. Now they'll all be available within the P+ app. Further, David Nevins now has jurisdiction over both those services and what shows they commission. Plus they're pumping a metric crapton of fresh capital into new content over the next three years.

The rebranding part is the holding company changing its name from ViacomCBS to Paramount. But this name change came along with a seismic re-orientation in corporate positioning and the relationship between its subsidiaries.

Frost has specifically said that to him the story is not over.

There you go!

A lot of people who staunchly defend S3 seem to have trouble admitting to themselves that Lynch The Artist of Such Pure Intention would ever stoop so low as to end a series on a cliffhanger like those other pleb shows. I actually think a lot of the over-elaborate and sometimes defensive interpretations of things that some fans found nonsensical or perplexing have far simpler explanations. What if the Roadhouse scenes weren't some heady philosophical meditation on the mundane everyday lives of people we don't know. Or subtle critiques of audience expectations and a priori assumptions on what True Art should strive to be,. What if they were just stuff to be addressed later or stuff they had to cut out.

[enumbs]

I think the conclusion of season 3 works brilliantly as an ending, but I also have no problem viewing it as a cliffhanger. If we get another season then a part of me will mourn for what felt like a powerful final statement, but I am confident that Lynch (and potentially Frost) will be able to take us to a destination every bit as meaningful. Lynch always describes the show as a continuing story, so I wouldn’t be surprised if any future season ends on a similar note of uncertainty.

I would be really surprised if the roadhouse scenes are integrated into the plot in any concrete way however. I can imagine further mysterious allusions to various subjects the patrons discuss, but I just find it hard to view a scene like the Sky Ferreira one with the armpit rash as anything approaching a traditional narrative setup. There is an elliptical quality there that feels wholly intentional to me, although I could be wrong of course.

[Histeria]

I think the conclusion of season 3 works brilliantly as an ending, but I also have no problem viewing it as a cliffhanger. If we get another season then a part of me will mourn for what felt like a powerful final statement, but I am confident that Lynch (and potentially Frost) will be able to take us to a destination every bit as meaningful. Lynch always describes the show as a continuing story, so I wouldn’t be surprised if any future season ends on a similar note of uncertainty.

I would be really surprised if the roadhouse scenes are integrated into the plot in any concrete way however. I can imagine further mysterious allusions to various subjects the patrons discuss, but I just find it hard to view a scene like the Sky Ferreira one with the armpit rash as anything approaching a traditional narrative setup. There is an elliptical quality there that feels wholly intentional to me, although I could be wrong of course.

I agree it works as an ending. I just don't think the evidence supports suggestions it intended to be the ending.

As for the Roadhouse scenes, I was referring specifically to the ones relating to Audrey: like when the name "Tina" sets off a chorus of intense ominous whooshing score.

[enumbs]

Ah, well if they revisit Audrey then I agree we could get more development on that front.

It’s interesting how each new iteration of Twin Peaks removes some of the ambiguity of the previous instalments while raising a whole bundle of new questions. I’m sure some of the more obscure moments of season 3 will get the Blue Rose/Judy treatment in any future season.

[Rainwater]

What if the Roadhouse scenes weren't some heady philosophical meditation on the mundane everyday lives of people we don't know. Or subtle critiques of audience expectations and a priori assumptions on what True Art should strive to be,. What if they were just stuff to be addressed later or stuff they had to cut out.

Hah. Do people think that? To me, those scenes are just little bits of.. world building I guess, that help create the illusion of there being this wider, living world out there, with its own stories and mysteries, that we're only getting a little glimpse of. Whether or not there's any particular meaning to them, or plot threads to be picked up on, I think they fill that function brilliantly.
Which is not unlike the Pilot in some sense, (remember, "The Pilot is the thing") in contrast to the rest of the old show which feels very linear and constrained in some ways - and I mean it was, the difference between the all-on-location shooting and the set-bound, with reused footage, rest of it is pretty stark.

As for the intense whooshing moment, funnily enough I find that to be one of the most unsettling moments in the whole thing, even though it's kind of a total non sequitur.
Actually when I think about it, Lynch scares are usually total non sequiturs, aren't they. Or appear to be until they're contextualized.

I agree it works as an ending. I just don't think the evidence supports suggestions it intended to be the ending.

I don't know, hasn't Lynch also said a few times something pretty straight forward along the lines of "It's the ending" when asked questions about the future of TP? I know you provided a bunch of examples of him and others seemingly leaving the door open, but there's also this.

I’m sure some of the more obscure moments of season 3 will get the Blue Rose/Judy treatment in any future season.

I really wish they wouldn't. I just want more mystery and novelty.

[enumbs]

What if the Roadhouse scenes weren't some heady philosophical meditation on the mundane everyday lives of people we don't know. Or subtle critiques of audience expectations and a priori assumptions on what True Art should strive to be,. What if they were just stuff to be addressed later or stuff they had to cut out.

Hah. Do people think that? To me, those scenes are just little bits of.. world building I guess, that help create the illusion of there being this wider, living world out there, with its own stories and mysteries, that we're only getting a little glimpse of. Whether or not there's any particular meaning to them, or plot threads to be picked up on, I think they fill that function brilliantly.

I think your own interpretation of the scenes aligns quite nicely with the description of them as a “meditation on the mundane everyday lives of people we don't know”. As for the rest of Histeria’s characterisation of fan opinion, I do think it’s accurate in most respects. I would certainly say that the vignettes play with audience expectations in quite an interesting way, and in particular with our desire to draw connections to the wider narrative of the show. I don’t think I’ve noticed anyone specifically claim the scenes exemplify what True Art should aspire to be, but I have seen plenty of people talk about them as a highlight of the season. They’re definitely some of mine for reasons I go into here: http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 64#p132964

I’m sure some of the more obscure moments of season 3 will get the Blue Rose/Judy treatment in any future season.

I really wish they wouldn't. I just want more mystery and novelty.

There’s always a tension between mystery and revelation in Twin Peaks, but I think the last thing that Lynch would want to do is demystify it entirely. There were parts of the Return which initially seemed too straightforwardly expositional on first viewing, but I loved how the finale cast so much of what we knew into doubt once again.

[mtwentz]

In a world of endless sequels, revivals, reboots, remakes, etc., if David Lynch wanted to make a new season of Twin Peaks, would there truly be any chance that he could be stopped because of lack of interest of other involved parties? Or any other reason whatsoever?

$$, creative control — lots of it actually.

Stepping outside of the Lynch echo plex, I do think the Return put a few dings in Twin Peaks’ more populist appeal. It did not do itself many favors in regards to continuing the story past s3, and that may have been the intent. I don’t know. As a franchise, it get (edit: felt) like Lynch attempting to kill his own baby.

I know some of you guys think the opposite, but I suspect it was not nearly the success some make it out to be. I think it def jumped up showtime subscriptions on the first month, but how many viewers hung around after night one? None of us know for sure. *Showtime will spin it positively either way.* More mystery where on either side, it’s a lot of speculation and little else to go on.

A Lynch series seems sort of possible to me at some point. The only peep I ever really heard about it was one piece of casting before covid. TP4? I say you guys are kidding yourselves, as much as I’d like to see it.

The only thing we know for sure is that 1) Ratings Flop, 2) Critical Success, 3) Awards Flop

No way to know the P/L.

[Histeria]

The only thing we know for sure is that 1) Ratings Flop, 2) Critical Success, 3) Awards Flop

4) streaming success 5) International success 6) broadcaster willingness to continue

[eyeboogers]

Exactly to #4, #5 and #6, Paramount+ as a platformed is being promoted internationally on the strength of just a handful of titles, Twin Peaks is one of those, and I think that says it all. Compare it to a show like "Yellowstone", big ratings hit in the US, virtually unknown IP in Europe and probably forgotten everywhere a decade from now. Maybe it is better to invest in the IP that has proven to have legs.

[Histeria]

We don't "know P/L" but we do know from statements to its own shareholders (which cite actual figures included in the confidential filings not published by the SEC for obvious reasons) that Twin Peaks was considered one of the main contributors to a surge in subscribers the previous year.

We know Nevins has stated that he's just watching for Lynch's call to make more Twin Peaks.

We know Twin Peaks international distribution deals were cited three seperate times in the shareholder statements as one of the key parts of its International growth strategy.

This is before the commissioning side of the company became a lotto-winner's free-for-all this year.

[DougieJones]

Hollywood Reporter 2017. This is all before they went all in on streaming content as well. I’d definitely say more and more people have watched it on streaming with Showtime since this article.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv ... 34370/amp/

[DougieJones]

This is from January of 2018.

“I dont know how soon he wants to do it,” Showtime programming head Gary Levine said Saturday at the Television Critics Association press tour. “[But] the door at showtime is always open to Mark [Frost] and David [Lynch] to ‘Twin Peaks’ or anything else they want to talk about.”

Levine said “the work was extraordinary, the fan reaction was extraordinary,” and the network makes no apologies for “Twin Peaks,” except for one: Using the show (which was mostly watched online, not on the linear channel) as a lead-in to “I’m Dying Up Here,” which didn’t help that series’ ratings.

Especially with Paramount Plus now it makes all the easier to make another season.

‘Twin Peaks’: Showtime Bosses Say ‘The Door Is Open’ For Another Season
https://www.indiewire.com/2018/01/twin- ... 14020/amp/

[Histeria]

This is from January of 2018.

“I dont know how soon he wants to do it,” Showtime programming head Gary Levine said Saturday at the Television Critics Association press tour. “[But] the door at showtime is always open to Mark [Frost] and David [Lynch] to ‘Twin Peaks’ or anything else they want to talk about.”

Levine said “the work was extraordinary, the fan reaction was extraordinary,” and the network makes no apologies for “Twin Peaks,” except for one: Using the show (which was mostly watched online, not on the linear channel) as a lead-in to “I’m Dying Up Here,” which didn’t help that series’ ratings.

Especially with Paramount Plus now it makes all the easier to make another season.

‘Twin Peaks’: Showtime Bosses Say ‘The Door Is Open’ For Another Season
https://www.indiewire.com/2018/01/twin- ... 14020/amp/

That whole article is gold. Should be pinned to the top of this thread for responding directly to many recurring debates.