Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

[DougieJones]

After going back in the thread and seeing how things have unfolded it feels like there has never been a definitive no in regards to doing more TP. It seems as though almost all of the answers from David and Mark is “we have to wait and see”. But here we are approaching 5 years since The Return and there hasn’t been an official word. Someone should just reach out to Showtime at this point.

Sabrina if you’re reading this please upload more BTS photos of The Return.

[Histeria]

After going back in the thread and seeing how things have unfolded it feels like there has never been a definitive no in regards to doing more TP. It seems as though almost all of the answers from David and Mark is “we have to wait and see”. But here we are approaching 5 years since The Return and there hasn’t been an official word. Someone should just reach out to Showtime at this point.

Sabrina if you’re reading this please upload more BTS photos of The Return.

Lynch has been quite open to doing more, Frost has been more "wait and see".

Lynch did say it would come in 2022 at the earliest. I think this was before he nabbed the Netflix deal.

[DougieJones]

Yeah considering the time frame and if he’s no longer doing the Netflix show a Twin Peaks continuation would presumably be slated for 2023/2024. Hopefully we do hear something somewhat official soon.

I ask this for everyone on the board/thread here. Is it possible that they are working on Twin Peaks in secret and announce it when the show is done filming?

[AXX°N N.]

Personally, S3 was refreshing to me exactly because it felt like television going as off the rails as it wanted to in a way that's usually only seen in experimental literature. You can say Gravity's Rainbow needed whatever the opposite of yes men are, someone to tone it down, hold things back, etc., but in my eyes that rarely leads to something I enjoy and an opposite idiom also exists; too many cooks in the kitchen. I love the old show, I wouldn't change a thing about it, but I don't think Lynch or Frost were working under any delusions that a group outing wouldn't probably have resulted in something more commercially viable or accessible. Then again, I'm not sure that was ever part of their approach or why they ended up with a writer's room or rotation of directors even back on the original series; I think it's more that that's how television was done at the time, and that's how it was feasible to deliver on a season order; in terms of what the ideal choice is from a pipe dream standpoint, S3 resembles what was once thought of as a kind of creative liberty unlikely to ever be afforded. It's even still unique to this day that so much of it was churned out solitary. Suffice it to say, I don't think it's likely that TP will go back to the old model of television after it stubbornly went against it, especially because getting to that point wasn't uncomplicated, and seemingly required Lynch to publicly and without warning walk out on a network deal, itself anathema to how these things are supposed to go.

[JackwithOneEye]

Personally, S3 was refreshing to me exactly because it felt like television going as off the rails as it wanted to in a way that's usually only seen in experimental literature. You can say Gravity's Rainbow needed whatever the opposite of yes men are, someone to tone it down, hold things back, etc., but in my eyes that rarely leads to something I enjoy and an opposite idiom also exists; too many cooks in the kitchen. I love the old show, I wouldn't change a thing about it, but I don't think Lynch or Frost were working under any delusions that a group outing wouldn't probably have resulted in something more commercially viable or accessible. Then again, I'm not sure that was ever part of their approach or why they ended up with a writer's room or rotation of directors even back on the original series; I think it's more that that's how television was done at the time, and that's how it was feasible to deliver on a season order; in terms of what the ideal choice is from a pipe dream standpoint, S3 resembles what was once thought of as a kind of creative liberty unlikely to ever be afforded. It's even still unique to this day that so much of it was churned out solitary. Suffice it to say, I don't think it's likely that TP will go back to the old model of television after it stubbornly went against it, especially because getting to that point wasn't uncomplicated, and seemingly required Lynch to publicly and without warning walk out on a network deal, itself anathema to how these things are supposed to go.

I agree. The Return has a very Sam Shepherd/ Samuel Beckett/ Thornton Wilder / Paul Auster / Don DeLillo feel about it.

Seems odd to deconstruct the whole thing and pose all these grand meta questions about whether it's all art, fiction, performance , and then go back and do a primetime soap about love triangles and arson plots in a small mill town.

Seems too late to me. Nothing precludes other creators to come along and do soap stuff in small towns tho. Lynch/Frost don't own any patent on that.

[eyeboogers]

"Twin Peaks" has always been a deconstructivist art project. For those that prefer hyper commercial IPs that are passed along from one work for hire director to another there are already lots of options to choose from at your local multiplex. As I understand it that conversation is supposed to happen in the designated "Disappointed..." thread. This thread is about the possibility of a fourth season of "Twin Peaks".

[enumbs]

It’s been posted before, but this article from just before the Return does a decent job articulating a lot of this: https://www.vulture.com/2017/05/twin-pe ... t-was.html

[Brad D]

"Twin Peaks" has always been a deconstructivist art project. For those that prefer hyper commercial IPs that are passed along from one work for hire director to another there are already lots of options to choose from at your local multiplex. As I understand it that conversation is supposed to happen in the designated "Disappointed..." thread. This thread is about the possibility of a fourth season of "Twin Peaks".

Strange. I haven’t seen anyone complaining about s3 in this thread lately.

[Jonah]

"Twin Peaks" was a highly commercialized prime time soap opera that aired on ABC and had tie-in books, Rolling Stone covers, ET interviews, and action figures. Yes, it has its merits, its very artsy and wonderful - but it was highly commercial and popular. Thinking other writers and directors could be brought on to work on the show doesn't mean people prefer "hyper commercial IPs". It's just suggesting they do what they did with the original series. So if the position is that having other writers and directors work on the show again makes it a hyper commercial product, that's also saying the original series was indeed a hyper commercial product and not a "deconstructivist art project". Thus this view ends up negating itself.

As for the rules, the moderators set them and we've been allowing this thread to drift a bit once it's still talking about "Twin Peaks" and/or Lynch and Frost, e.g. letting everyone talk about the new Spielberg film for several pages, etc. We've said a few times a bit of drifting is okay within this thread as long as it's still tangentially related - i.e., talking about the show itself, Wisteria/Unrecorded Night, or Lynch/Frost and their other projects. Alas, given how little news there has been, the majority of this thread is not about the possibility of Season 4, it always coasts on other stuff until there's a tiny bit of possible news via Sabrina or someone seeing something somewhere that we speculate about, which always leads to nothing, then go back to talking about the show in general or Lynch/Frost etc. Ad infinitum!

[Histeria]

"Twin Peaks" has always been a deconstructivist art project. For those that prefer hyper commercial IPs that are passed along from one work for hire director to another there are already lots of options to choose from at your local multiplex. As I understand it that conversation is supposed to happen in the designated "Disappointed..." thread. This thread is about the possibility of a fourth season of "Twin Peaks".

"Twin Peaks" was a highly commercialized prime time soap opera that aired on ABC and had tie-in books, Rolling Stone covers, ET interviews, and action figures. Yes, it has its merits, its very artsy and wonderful - but it was highly commercial and popular. Thinking other writers and directors could be brought on to work on the show doesn't mean people prefer "hyper commercial IPs". It's just suggesting they do what they did with the original series. So if the position is that having other writers and directors work on the show again makes it a hyper commercial product, that's also saying the original series was indeed a hyper commercial product and not a "deconstructivist art project". Thus this view ends up negating itself.

I don't actually want others bought in as long as Lynch and Frost are around (and to be frank I don't trust them to pick the right people if passing the torch) but I do think the above is spot on and I tried expressing it a lot less successfully yesterday. There's lots of revisionism abound regarding the original series.

My 13 year old not-at-all artsy sister watched the original series and adored it. I haven't told her there's a season three and movie yet.

[Jonah]

I don't actually want others bought in as long as Lynch and Frost are around (and to be frank I don't trust them to pick the right people if passing the torch) but I do think the above is spot on and I tried expressing it a lot less successfully yesterday. There's lots of revisionism abound regarding the original series.

It's just an idea really to take the pressure off Lynch/Frost. I'd still love a very Lynchian FWWM Part 2-style film, as I've said a few times now. And, let's face it, FWWM was much less commercial than the original series. I'd argue it was also darker and less accessible than parts of The Return too. I certainly don't want a watered down Twin Peaks. And even if they do ever turn the show over to others, I'd still like them to do the pilot, handpick writers, a showrunner, guide the show - so they'd still be steering the ship, not just randomly turning it over to others to make it into something completely unrelated - so them still guiding everything would be exactly like they did before (at least in Season 1 and first half of Season 2). I know you make the point about them maybe not picking the right people, but I think they had good writers during the original run - I'm not sure exactly what happened in mid-Season 2, I think everyone was just overworked and churning out crappy scripts due to behind the scenes antics axing the plotline they had set up and rather than moving the Windom story up, they just ran with silly episodes a bit longer than they should have. I think every show is allowed a sophomore slump and plenty of them have it - everyone focuses on Twin Peaks going downhill in Season 2 (probably because it ended in cancellation) but forget it was just a portion of the season, not the whole season, and plenty of great shows have had season-long slumps (and not been cancelled).

I don't think anyone here wants the show to become a series of Marvel movies or whatever. I do understand people wanting Lynch to direct every episode but I think it's only recently that such a precedent was set - and it puts too much pressure on him, especially given his age. I don't remember anyone expecting this before The Return. I just think it might be expecting too much. Fortunately, it's not for any of us to decide, but Lynch and Frost themselves. I know there were other discussions on here recently about the show being taken over by others in 2040 or beyond when the heirs turn it over to others. That's a different thing. I'm not sure how I'd feel about that, but I'm sure even then it would probably still have certain conditions, such as trying to keep a similar tone.

[eyeboogers]

There is a big difference between staff writers be brought in under the supervision of two showrunners - in order to meet a non-negotiable full season network schedule, in order to have financing to make anything at all, compared to suggesting that control be taking away from the artists and given to a revolving door of "talent", resulting in some diluted and safe cover band version of "Twin Peaks". And I disagree with Jonah. The fact that the show was a big hit was unlikely to put it mildly, and had a lot to do with everything happening in culture and politically in the west around that time. As Frost pointed out at the season 3 announcement, there was always an artists manifesto behind this particular approach to storytelling.

I think everyone here became fans of the original show because it was different and uncompromising. As was FWWM. As was TPTR. And it i sad that some fans have lost sight of that.

[Jonah]

Again, no one is saying they want a "revolving door" of different writers/directors to produce a "diluted safe cover band version of Twin Peaks". I (and others I've seen suggest this) have said we specifically don't want that - that we'd like Lynch/Frost to handpick them, guide the show, but not feel pressured to write/direct every episode, a precedent that was only set in 2017 and never before. No one is talking about wrestling control away from the creatives (unless you're also referring to the idea of heirs selling the rights in the future - but I wasn't a part of that discussion so can't really weigh in on it), just suggesting it is something they themselves might decide to do, as they did before! The original show WAS different and uncompromising - but back then it did sort of have the "revolving door" you mention of different writers/directors (including one famous case of a writer who was hired and turned in an unusable script!). So I don't understand why you think that returning to that method employed in the original series would now make it a watered down cover band version of TP, when you've just said that it was originally different and uncompromising, when they WERE using different writers/directors. Your comments keep negating themselves here so I'm not sure what point you're making.

I'm pretty sure no fan wants a Marvel version of Twin Peaks. It was merely a suggestion of a direction that they could take while also suggesting Lynch do his movie version. Anyway, as I said above, it's not up for us to decide - the decision rests with Lynch and Frost at the end of the day, no matter what any fans think they should do. People are just suggesting possible outcomes while they await news on whether there will be more TP or not. And for those who think Lynch should direct every episode of TP, fair enough - but remember if he got to make a movie it might be a purer version of TP and also might take the pressure off him. We don't want him overdoing it either and someone even half his age would struggle with the demands of directing every single episode of an 18-season series. But I understand not wanting to take the show out of the hands of its creators - it's just a suggestion for a possible tactic they could take, and it was the original tactic they took, as back in the day they didn't write/direct every episode themselves or seemingly want to. And now that they've said what they wanted to with The Return, they could very well decide to follow that method again, of allowing others to participate. I grant that they probably won't but we can't say that for sure. But no one is suggesting the IP be grabbed from their hands and sold to the highest bidder. They own the rights. They get to choose what happens next with it.

[Histeria]

Yeah I have my own list of "people I'd want to take over if it has to happen at all" and it certainly ain't revolving door types I had in mind.

Again, most of the filmmaking elite would probably direct Twin Peaks for free if given a chance.

My worry with this scenario is they hire Jennifer Lynch and those who wrote/directed during the original run. Or just keep it in the inner circle, so to speak. They were the 'revolving door' types, if anyone was. That's why they were hired. And it's why Marvel hired who they hired until the recent loosening of creative restrictions in their Phase Four slate: Revolving door talent is obedient and won't rock the boat.

[Jonah]

Well said, Histeria. I don't even watch Marvel movies! It was just the first thing I thought of when commercial IPs were mentioned. I don't really watch any commercial stuff - at least not modern stuff! Right now I'm still making my way through old 90's TV shows in my spare time, mostly due to the original TP and for nostalgia.

Eh, let's let Lynch/Frost decide what to do. I'm not going to get into any more debates about it. It was just a thought to keep the franchise going, not because I think it needs another perspective. I see both sides - I understand those who think it should stay Lynch/Frost but at the same time I think that's a lot of pressure on them and not something they may even want to do apart from with The Return. Fans seem to have set that precedent/expectation ever since Lynch/Frost decided to write/direct every episode of The Return themselves. Lynch did veto a comic book continuation and it's likely he won't let others meddle with the IP, but he never outright stated he would insist on it being just him or just him and Frost again so, while it's unlikely, I could also see him wanting to do it like the original series again with just a pilot and him overseeing others. Unlikely but it's hard to tell what he'd decide. Anyway, It's up to them. They did resist doing anything until The Return in 2017 so I'm sure they already have an idea what they're going to do themselves, even if that means not doing anything more with it. I'm all for whatever they decide to do with the franchise - and I'll leave it at that.