Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

[Jonah]

All Quiet on the Western Front. Will more rumours surface soon?

[enumbs]

It is probably the most puzzling scene in all of The Return. And, coming at the climax, you have to ask yourself, why? While some enjoy taking it at face value and others despise it at the same level, there are numerous layers at play, and I think there's a lot to it.

There's the toying with storytelling, subversion, and deus ex machine, and the very idea of neat and tidy endings. There's a possible spoof of comic book movies that always end with a superpowered fist-fight. There's the parody of the idea in movies or reality that evil can somehow be extinguished, and the utter absurdity of the scene underscores the ridiculousness and impossibility of that notion. Perhaps most importantly, there's Cooper once again not coming face to face with himself, instead relying on Lucy and Green Gloves' intervention. And probably a few more thematic or narrative interpretations that I'm forgetting, such as the possible "it's not real" signifier. I find the sequence hugely complex, producing a bittersweet range of emotions. As part of the hero's journey, you have to ask yourself whether anything was really accomplished?

But to echo mtwentz...I've said this before, but I believe that that scene, while difficult to embrace on strictly narrative terms as an ending to BOB, is in and of itself one of the best scenes in The Return. It's quite a display of layered sound and image, and quite viscerally intense as well, for me anyway.

I agree with all of that. I would even go further and say that the sequence as a whole - beginning with Mr C sitting opposite Frank Truman and ending with the room going dark as Cole shouts for Coop - manages the impressive feat of capturing all the disparate tones that make up Twin Peaks. Supernatural horror, goofy comedy, subversive meta-commentary, pulpy entertainment and surreal psychodrama all come together in what feels like a goodbye to Twin Peaks as we know it.

[LateReg]

Was the green glove scene the one Lynch was complaining about feeling rushed over and having "zero ideas" about how to shoot in that BTS footage?

I suppose there's an inherent allusion towards the stylings of comic books with the glove but I'm generally wary about reading too much into The Return as a cultural pastiche/commentary (I don't think that scene's intended as an actual satire of Marvel or the way modern cinema resolves itself) - although it is obviously a very self conscious example of an absurd deus ex machina.

To the first sentence, I believe so, yes.

To the second, I agree. I certainly don't think that Lynch intended it as a literal spoof of comic book stuff--and some here contend that it's a genuine, irony-free scene for Lynch--but there's so much going on with storytelling devices and subverting expectations in The Return that I do think that it has to be about narrative resolution in some regard, whether a satire on modern cinema or a commentary on big showdowns in the final reel or the impossibility of an expected climax (such as Cooper vs. Cooper) holding much value or living up to the hype. It's not for nothing that after BOB is dispatched that the true endgame is finally revealed and the story gets murkier than ever.

[LateReg]

I agree with all of that. I would even go further and say that the sequence as a whole - beginning with Mr C sitting opposite Frank Truman and ending with the room going dark as Cole shouts for Coop - manages the impressive feat of capturing all the disparate tones that make up Twin Peaks. Supernatural horror, goofy comedy, subversive meta-commentary, pulpy entertainment and surreal psychodrama all come together in what feels like a goodbye to Twin Peaks as we know it.

Huh. Yeah. Great call on all that, especially the last part about it feeling like a goodbye to Twin Peaks as we know it!

[Mr. Reindeer]

I agree with all of that. I would even go further and say that the sequence as a whole - beginning with Mr C sitting opposite Frank Truman and ending with the room going dark as Cole shouts for Coop - manages the impressive feat of capturing all the disparate tones that make up Twin Peaks. Supernatural horror, goofy comedy, subversive meta-commentary, pulpy entertainment and surreal psychodrama all come together in what feels like a goodbye to Twin Peaks as we know it.

Huh. Yeah. Great call on all that, especially the last part about it feeling like a goodbye to Twin Peaks as we know it!

Seconded. Love this. Great call, enumbs.

[Stavrogyn]

I would even go further and say that the sequence as a whole - beginning with Mr C sitting opposite Frank Truman and ending with the room going dark as Cole shouts for Coop - manages the impressive feat of capturing all the disparate tones that make up Twin Peaks. Supernatural horror, goofy comedy, subversive meta-commentary, pulpy entertainment and surreal psychodrama all come together in what feels like a goodbye to Twin Peaks as we know it.

Very well said, indeed. Probably my favorite episode of The Return - but the Green Glove will always bother me. Actually, not the Green Glove itself (I liked the Freddie character and his story with the Giant), but BOB appearing as a flying orb. That was just ridiculous. But it's still one of my favorite scenes. Hard to explain. The aesthetics of it all... just mesmerizing.

[DougieJones]

Does anybody have any clue what the overlayed Coop on the screen (right after the BOB fight) could mean. I think that’s one of the only things that I’ve been stumped on. I took it as Coop is stuck in a loop and has done this multiple times already but I honestly have no clue. It very much reminded me also of the scene where the Fireman is watching the creation of BOB on the screen in the theater for some reason.

[enumbs]

I think people’s feeling about the Bob orb may depend on their tolerance for Lynch manipulating the apparatus of narrative as tool for expressing an idea. It is an undoubtedly absurd plot development, but to my mind the absurdity is the point, with Lynch using a totally jarring and overtly fantastical denouement as a way of representing delusional thinking and wish fulfilment. As with Mulholland Drive, I think it also conveys something about the experience of engaging with a film or piece of art, and the various manifestations of living inside a dream.

For me, the superimposed face is about the reality which exists outside of the dream we choose to live in. The swift defeat of evil is far too good to be true, and there is a part of Cooper that either knows this or will come to know this as he looks back on this moment in his mind. If there’s an “eye of the duck” scene in season 3, I’m pretty sure it’s here.

[DougieJones]

For me, the superimposed face is about the reality which exists outside of the dream we choose to live in. The swift defeat of evil is far too good to be true, and there is a part of Cooper that either knows this or will come to know this as he looks back on this moment in his mind. If there’s an “eye of the duck” scene in season 3, I’m pretty sure it’s here.

That’s really interesting. I thought of it as a loop because when he sees Diane again in the Sheriff’s Office he asks her if she remembers everything. I took that as them coming back from the Richard and Linda timeline and then the loop starts up again (which is why the clock is stuck at the number of completion when it’s shown)

I think one of the big reasons why I want another Twin Peaks project from David and Co. is just because of the fact that Coop and Laura are out there stuck in time like Phillip Jeffries. The ending of FWWM with Laura being greeted by the Angel is so poignant and beautiful so when I think of Laura and Coop being designated to a fate unknown it really hurts gotta say

[enumbs]

That’s really interesting. I thought of it as a loop because when he sees Diane again in the Sheriff’s Office he asks her if she remembers everything. I took that as them coming back from the Richard and Linda timeline and then the loop starts up again (which is why the clock is stuck at the number of completion when it’s shown)

That may be right too! I’m not the best when it comes to engaging with the sci fi mechanics of Twin Peaks in a literal way, and always prefer to think about what the show is doing emotionally. I’m sure there is a lot of thought put into the supernatural elements of the story (especially by Frost), but I think there’s always a psychological or spiritual resonance as well. I agree that one senses some kind of loop in Part 18, especially in the echoes of the red room scenes in part 2, and I’ve always related this to Cooper’s failure to grow spiritually or recognise reality for what it is. While Fire Walk With Me ends with Laura as attaining a kind of enlightenment, Cooper is still very much caught up in the cycle of suffering.

[DougieJones]

And because he’s stuck in that cycle of suffering he manages to suck Laura back into it as well, after she finally found peace. The line “I’m dead but yet I live” that’s spoken by Laura is very symbolic of that idea. She lives because Cooper refuses to let her die. Flip that with Dougie, one of the purest beings in the show arguably and whatever he touches turns to gold. He has a wife and a kid and is settled down nicely in Las Vegas. This was supposed to be IMO what Coop’s life could’ve been had he not messed with the Twin Peaks entities all those years ago. He could’ve had a happy life and a family but because of his desire to make things right he can’t.

[Jonah]

That's why I like to think of the FWWM ending as coming after The Return's ending - though I know some don't agree with that.

[DougieJones]

That's why I like to think of the FWWM ending as coming after The Return's ending - though I know some don't agree with that.

I do as well but the only thing that stops me is every time we see Coop in FWWM he doesn’t have his FBI pin on. But when Coop first entered the Black Lodge in S2 he had his pin on. And when we see him again in the Red Room for the first time again in The Return he has his pin on. The only times he doesn’t have his pin on is during FWWM and when he’s Dougie. Also, at the start of The Return when he’s meeting The Fireman he doesn’t have his pin on as well. There has to be some connection there right?

[Jonah]

I'd say they probably just forgot about the pin during FWWM (some might dispute this as Lynch is known to pay attention to detail but it's possible). Otherwise, I'm not sure.

[Hester Prynne]

I find the sequence hugely complex, producing a bittersweet range of emotions. As part of the hero's journey, you have to ask yourself whether anything was really accomplished?

Thank you for the great analysis of this scene. I probably should have clarified that the reason I haven’t tried interpreting it as much as other scenes isn’t because I didn’t care for it that much, but more because of the complexity of any potential meaning behind it which your post touched on.

It seems that even among fans that enjoyed The Return, that scene elicits different reactions. When I first viewed it, it was a bit of a let down and I couldn’t make sense of it, but that may have been the intent. It feels like Coop is trying to cheat the system, whatever that system is. I’m not sure I view it with so much a sense of finality as I do more of a setup for Part 18 where there is a definite feeling that something has gone wrong and Coop screwed up.

So, of all the new characters in The Return, Freddy seems the most out of place and context. He’s like a character from a super hero movie that got plucked out of one storyline and dropped in the middle of another where he didn’t really belong. This got me thinking of Coop’s goal which is basically rewriting the story of Twin Peaks. By keeping Laura from being murdered, that’s essentially what he’s doing. It’s like he and the Fireman are taking characters from different stories and inserting them into Twin Peaks to accomplish their mission. There’s a lot of this in Audrey’s question of Is this the story of the little girl who lived down the lane and the Arm’s repetition of the line later as the story we’re watching is changing. The Road House seems like the hub for all of these stories and characters getting exchanged into other stories and characters - all the random people having conversations that are sometimes similar and then Audrey’s final scene where she gets transitioned potentially into a different storyline altogether.

Sorry for the long post. I don’t know if any of it actually makes sense, but thinking about Freddy’s scene with Bob sent me down a rabbit hole.