Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

[Soolsma]

Certainly I do! I mostly recall the good things

The bit that threw us (spoiler seekers) most off in the first place was probably the fact that filming was taking place mostly outside Twin Peaks. Also, no Annie was very puzzling.

If the time comes again, I do know that I will want to try to steer away from letting myself become familiar with plot points beforehand. The gist of it though, I just gotta know.

[Stavrogyn]

If the time comes again, I do know that I will want to try to steer away from letting myself become familiar with plot points beforehand. The gist of it though, I just gotta know.

Please, no spoilers for me! The experience is always better the less knowledge you have beforehand. I mostly even avoid watching trailers.

It would be the best not to even know the cast, but that is something even I would not be able to resist. And I do not understand why did they publish the cast list the last time in the first place? No one would have expected all of those actors returning, and we would have constantly be surprised from episode to episode!

Also, no Annie was very puzzling.

This is still puzzling to me. Heather Graham is, as far as I know, active and still looks great, and she would have been a crucial factor in any continuation I could come up with. The fact that Cooper returns from the Lodge and does not even mention her makes no sense to me. I liked Diane's storyline and Dern's performance, but I think it should have ended with her tulpa being shot. The person Dale meets and travels with at the end should have been Annie.

But I guess Lynch is friends with Dern, and never really cared about the Annie character.

[Dougie Cooper]

" . . . . and never really cared about the Annie character."

There's your bottom line. Or Lynch's.

Lynch left Annie in the hospital (per FWWM outtake), so with her parked there indefinitely, Cooper was free to get hitched to someone else and all . . . . just never would have guessed Dianne.

Though it does make sense from the perspective of the Return: Dianne was privy to most anything and everything Cooper was involved with (Blue Rose).

[Mr. Reindeer]

Cooper knew Annie for less than a week. He had a personal and professional relationship with Diane spanning years, and she was familiar with the nature of his work and the Blue Rose cases. I love Heather Graham as an actress, but I think people overstate Annie’s importance.

[mojo1976]

Cooper knew Annie for less than a week. He had a personal and professional relationship with Diane spanning years, and she was familiar with the nature of his work and the Blue Rose cases. I love Heather Graham as an actress, but I think people overstate Annie’s importance.

True, but the reason Cooper went into the Lodge was to save her.

[Agent Earle]

Cooper knew Annie for less than a week. He had a personal and professional relationship with Diane spanning years, and she was familiar with the nature of his work and the Blue Rose cases. I love Heather Graham as an actress, but I think people overstate Annie’s importance.

No Annie, no S 2 finale. No S 2 finale, no S 3. The same goes for Windom. They both got short shrifted purely out of Lynch's whim, not because that needed to be done with respect to the continuity of the series. "He just felt like it," as the saying goes. (Of course, him going off his gut feelings and intuituon also got us the 100% brilliance that is the S 2 finale, one of the top 3 hours of television ever, so what do I know.)

[Mr. Reindeer]

Cooper knew Annie for less than a week. He had a personal and professional relationship with Diane spanning years, and she was familiar with the nature of his work and the Blue Rose cases. I love Heather Graham as an actress, but I think people overstate Annie’s importance.

No Annie, no S 2 finale. No S 2 finale, no S 3. The same goes for Windom. They both got short shrifted purely out of Lynch's whim, not because that needed to be done with respect to the continuity of the series. "He just felt like it," as the saying goes. (Of course, him going off his gut feelings and intuituon also got us the 100% brilliance that is the S 2 finale, one of the top 3 hours of television ever, so what do I know.)

Just because something was significant to the past of the series doesn’t mean it needs to be significant to the present/future. That’s the nature of serialized storytelling. It evolves, especially with a 25-year gap. Windom in particular had served his purpose in E29 and it’s tough to see what place he would have in the story going forward beyond maybe a Lodge cameo.

Certainly there’s a potential version of S3 where Annie could have played a larger role. I’m not saying she “needed to be” left out, but I also don’t think she “needed to be” in it, which seems to be how a lot of people feel. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that someone Cooper knew for five days 25 years ago didn’t play a role in this particular story.

And where you express Lynch’s whims as “He just felt like it,” I would instead say that he followed his artistic vision. But maybe we’re both saying the same thing, I just liked the result more than you did.

[Agent Earle]

Cooper knew Annie for less than a week. He had a personal and professional relationship with Diane spanning years, and she was familiar with the nature of his work and the Blue Rose cases. I love Heather Graham as an actress, but I think people overstate Annie’s importance.

No Annie, no S 2 finale. No S 2 finale, no S 3. The same goes for Windom. They both got short shrifted purely out of Lynch's whim, not because that needed to be done with respect to the continuity of the series. "He just felt like it," as the saying goes. (Of course, him going off his gut feelings and intuituon also got us the 100% brilliance that is the S 2 finale, one of the top 3 hours of television ever, so what do I know.)

Just because something was significant to the past of the series doesn’t mean it needs to be significant to the present/future. That’s the nature of serialized storytelling. It evolves, especially with a 25-year gap. Windom in particular had served his purpose in E29 and it’s tough to see what place he would have in the story going forward beyond maybe a Lodge cameo.

Certainly there’s a potential version of S3 where Annie could have played a larger role. I’m not saying she “needed to be” left out, but I also don’t think she “needed to be” in it, which seems to be how a lot of people feel. I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that someone Cooper knew for five days 25 years ago didn’t play a role in this particular story.

And where you express Lynch’s whims as “He just felt like it,” I would instead say that he followed his artistic vision. But maybe we’re both saying the same thing, I just liked the result more than you did.

My response was primarily to your claim that people overstate Annie's importance. I don't think you can say someone who was directly involved with the hero winding up where he did for 25 years and was never the same afterwards is of little importance to the series, no matter the amount of time the hero knew him/her or was romantically involved with. If you gonna go down that road, heck, the whole of Twin Peaks was known to Cooper for - what? - 2, 3 weeks at the most? And if you wanna talk about overstated importances, let's talk about Audrey.

As for Windom, I didn't say he should've had a whole arc devoted to him, or even an appearance. I did expect a mention, though. Sure I did. One. Single. Friggin. Mention. As a matter of fact, I' not even saying Annie needed to be in S 3 - but someone (anyone!) addressing her fate in a couple of sentences? C'mon man!

[Mr. Reindeer]

[

My response was primarily to your claim that people overstate Annie's importance. I don't think you can say someone who was directly involved with the hero winding up where he did for 25 years and was never the same afterwards is of little importance to the series, no matter the amount of time the hero knew him/her or was romantically involved with.

Fair, I meant more that I feel people overstate her importance vis a vis post-E29, when they’re discussing how her absence in S3 left some perceived hole in the narrative. For the record, I love their brief dalliance in S2. I think they’re adorable together and have great chemistry.

And I do think that arc had thematic resonance with TR in several ways I’ve mentioned in the past (e.g., Cooper’s ability or lack thereof to allow himself to settle down and raise a family, his comment to Annie that he’d love to see the world through her eyes because “it’s all so new” a la Dougie, the contrast between Dale’s behavior in the Annie sex scene vs. the Diane sex scene).

[Mr. Reindeer]

BTW, Earle, I’m trying to recall...have you revisited TR since the initial airing? I’m curious to see if your perspective would be any different with altered expectations. Not that I think your opinion SHOULD change! We love you just the way you are. Just curious if it did/would change at all.

[Agent Earle]

BTW, Earle, I’m trying to recall...have you revisited TR since the initial airing? I’m curious to see if your perspective would be any different with altered expectations. Not that I think your opinion SHOULD change! We love you just the way you are. Just curious if it did/would change at all.

What do you know, I didn't! So I'm still venting and ranting here based on my initial impressions that are now almost 4 (!) years old, the sourpuss that I am I'll be sure to report my thoughts and feelings when I embark on that endeavour but it'll be a little while yet (busy with other TV viewings, currently the first season of Treme, after finishing The Deuce, and loving it - David Simon is God!).

As for Coop & Annie, I'm glad we understand each other.

[Mr. Reindeer]

BTW, Earle, I’m trying to recall...have you revisited TR since the initial airing? I’m curious to see if your perspective would be any different with altered expectations. Not that I think your opinion SHOULD change! We love you just the way you are. Just curious if it did/would change at all.

What do you know, I didn't! So I'm still venting and ranting here based on my initial impressions that are now almost 4 (!) years old, the sourpuss that I am I'll be sure to report my thoughts and feelings when I embark on that endeavour but it'll be a little while yet (busy with other TV viewings, currently the first season of Treme, after finishing The Deuce, and loving it - David Simon is God!).

Both incredible series! I was just thinking earlier about how criminally underrated Emily Meade is.

There is so much great work out there—seemingly more than anyone could watch in a lifetime—that revisiting something you disliked is understandably not a super appealing prospect. LateReg recently (unwittingly) inspired me to revisit (of all things) Zack Snyder’s first two DC Comics films in advance of his Justice League cut releasing this week. I actively disliked both films on my initial viewing, and although I still don’t like them, I had a more complicated/nuanced reaction this time, knowing what I was getting into and taking the films in more on their terms than mine.

[Agent Earle]

Both incredible series! I was just thinking earlier about how criminally underrated Emily Meade is.

There is so much great work out there—seemingly more than anyone could watch in a lifetime—that revisiting something you disliked is understandably not a super appealing prospect. LateReg recently (unwittingly) inspired me to revisit (of all things) Zack Snyder’s first two DC Comics films in advance of his Justice League cut releasing this week. I actively disliked both films on my initial viewing, and although I still don’t like them, I had a more complicated/nuanced reaction this time, knowing what I was getting into and taking the films in more on their terms than mine.

One final reply before we derail the thread too much: I love Emily Meade! Her's is one of the best characters in a show that's simply jam-packed with wonderful, compellingly written, life-like characters! I'm still emotionally recovering from her tragic story... God, I could go on about the series for days! And to think how much was accomplished creatively in merely 3 seasons worth of 25 episodes - one feels like he lived through those characters' lifetimes.

As for Treme, I've never been to New Orleans - or to the US, for that matter - in my life and my lifestyle doesn't contain anything in particular that would make me feel connected to that amazing place, and yet I somehow do and sense I have a pretty good grasp of what makes it tick just 6 episodes into the series. If that doesn's speak of the creators' quality, I don't know what does.

I'll get back to The Return eventually. I owe Lynch and the rest that much, I guess. But I agree, the wealth of all the fantastic content these days is a blessing and a curse at the same time...

[eyeboogers]

In terms of Annie, I think the main factor is Mark Frosts' strategy that "The Return" does not represent the end of Cooper's journey, as modeled after "The Odyssey". And that the actual act of coming home/redemption hadn't happened, yet, and was held for the next (possible) installment of Twin Peaks. Reconnecting with Annie Blackburne would fit better in the final installment, regardless of whether that end is true love forever or tragedy.

[Agent Earle]

In terms of Annie, I think the main factor is Mark Frosts' strategy that "The Return" does not represent the end of Cooper's journey, as modeled after "The Odyssey". And that the actual act of coming home/redemption hadn't happened, yet, and was held for the next (possible) installment of Twin Peaks. Reconnecting with Annie Blackburne would fit better in the final installment, regardless of whether that end is true love forever or tragedy.

I'd like nothing better than for this to turn out to be the case! I feel it's in the realm of wishful thinking and pipe dreams tho'...