Season 4? Or is it over after this? Wisteria/Unrecorded Night? Something else? (Speculation thread.)

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freeek
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by freeek »

There's a time limit because all talent involved, actors and Lynch himself, are not getting any younger.
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boske
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by boske »

NormoftheAndes wrote: Having Desmond in the show could be entirely possible. Any of the Odessa aspects are a stretch for me as they're so specific to that world. Since the characters also are abstractions or alter-egos it all seems even more tenuous. I saw Dougie as Cooper's innocent dream-self. In terms of story and characters, I think any continuing story would have to be as new and fresh as everything in season 3, albeit with more continuity and sense of drama - more akin to the original Twin Peaks in some senses.

I can see that direction being likely after the mostly experimental nature of The Return.
I would not mind that at all, but I tend to agree with what Mr. Reindeer just wrote. DKL is more likely to come up with something new. He is not a kind of person that would have droughts in his creative work, which need not be film related at all. The danger with S4 is in it getting repetitive. Myself, I would not mind 90 minutes of Cooper strolling in the lodge, but there is just that many times you can pull that rabbit out of a cylinder hat. I wish we're getting S4, but I am frankly not optimistic.
NormoftheAndes wrote: If you only think there is a 15% likelihood of more Twin Peaks, I'm kind of surprised you're even bothering speculating! :lol:
It is still better than one in a million ("so you're telling me there is a chance"). :-D
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Of course age is a factor, which is why I previously said I’m optimistic for more as long as Lynch is above ground and healthy. For me, that’s the ONLY factor, not some arbitrary two- or five-year deadline of the project being announced.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by LateReg »

NormoftheAndes wrote:
Jerry Horne wrote:How long before any of you lose hope for a fourth season? This April? 2021? 2025? For me, if nothing is announced by the 30th anniversary on 4/8, I would have a hard time believing it will come back.
But what precedent is there for an announcement on any anniversary? We had season 3 announced back in 2014 right?

However, I do agree that the 30th anniversary would be a great means of announcing something new based around the interest in Twin Peaks, looking back to the pilot episode in 1990 and so forth - you can't deny the power of nostalgia. I know many people claimed The Return was anti-nostalgia but I didn't sense that, it was just more interested in living inside its own dream.
That's interesting. This only loosely applies to this discussion of Season 4, but I've many times said that I think The Return was more of a harsh and complicated interrogation of nostalgia than strictly anti-nostalgia. It emerged in an age of reboots, and because of how interested it was in, as you say, "living inside its own dream," seemed to take nostalgia-based reboot culture to task, and if the finale could be boiled down to a single message, it would almost have to be "you can't go home again," which is as close to anti-nostalgia as possible; in part 17 and 18, Laura disappears once Cooper looks back, which is another sign of the same (along with all the implications of messing with the original series). There's a lot throughout the series that could be seen the same way, but again, I think it's interrogating the viewer's and the TV/Film landscape's ideas about and reliance upon nostalgia rather than simply anti-nostalgic. Lynch reuniting and in some cases calling attention to the pairing of certain actors is proof of his own nostalgia, though that dovetails with themes about the passage of time. But I certainly don't think it's simply "nostalgic," either, and certainly more anti- than pro-. The interrogation of nostalgia is one of the five or so key points of the piece.

On the subject of Season 4, I don't think I'd ever lose hope at this point, but like Reindeer I do wonder whether Lynch will do something else first. I admit my hopes would be slightly diminished if whatever he did next was a massive multi-year project that wasn't Twin Peaks-related, simply because he's not getting any younger. But I still wouldn't totally rule it out.

I also will say that I don't believe that there is a chance that Lynch gets any less freedom than he had for Season 3. No chance. Anybody who enters into the pact with Lynch after The Return is doing so knowing its reputation as both a challenging and acclaimed show for which he was given carte blanche, and there's at least a couple networks I can think of who would welcome the opportunity to finance the same type of art. Maybe Showtime for some reason doesn't have as much money to give him, but the freedom and lack of time constraints that would allow for whatever format Lynch desires would still be there. That said, I think that time was a major theme of The Return and it is reflected in the 18 hours in all of their content and use of duration. I don't believe that time will be used in quite the same way if there is a continuation unless it once again holds meaning.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by baxter »

My view on there being no more TP if Lynch works on something else is simply that I don't think he has time left for two major projects. Not that I think he is ill, it's just that each might take 5 years or so and you never know.
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NormoftheAndes
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by NormoftheAndes »

Very good comments LateReg. I am often surprised when people declare that The Return is about nostalgia or deals with such concepts as time as it sounds so vague to me and also I'm just not convinced. I don't think it is significantly ABOUT such a concept although it certainly deals with how much time has passed since 1992.

For me at least, Cooper being Dougie in Las Vegas was a major step away from any attempt to reconnect him to the world of Twin Peaks. Even when he does 'come back' and appears as Cooper his return to Twin Peaks seems rushed and deliberately ridiculous. 'Entering Twin Peaks city limits?' - this sounds like the worst encapsulation of Cooper returning to his loved town.

So much of The Return feels like a self-aware organism and also a big experiment. It acknowledges our sentiments and desire for a real return to characters we might have a fondness for but the project itself doesn't enable a COMPLETE return to the true Twin Peaks, whatever we view that as being. Certainly not in terms of missing characters like Harry Truman. We are often reminded of his absence but there is no means in the show to give us any sense of fulfiment or any sentimental feeling.

Probably the most 'nostalgic' facet of The Return is the portrayal of Sarah Palmer in my view - her trauma and suffering is shown fully and without any softening. Its harsh, unpleasant and upsetting. We never even get to see Sarah get any help - Dr Hayward is not in town and only seen via Skype. By the end of the season, we have no idea even where she is.

The overall feeling left by The Return is quite bleak and unsatisfying for anyone wishing for an inkling of a coherent ending or story. Quite a few fans have felt let down by season 3 and its entirely understandable why. I enjoyed the season as a journey or a ride but all I felt at the end of part 18 was 'this cannot be the end'... :D
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by FauxOwl »

If the aforementioned casting rumors are legit, I think for me it would come down what that turns out to be (fully acknowledging the rumors may not be legit). If Lynch has a non Twin Peaks project on the scale of a feature film or limited series, I'd be very surprised if Lynch returns to Twin Peaks after that. If the rumors turn out to be related to Twin Peaks, well that answers that.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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NormoftheAndes wrote:I am often surprised when people declare that The Return is about nostalgia or deals with such concepts as time as it sounds so vague to me and also I'm just not convinced. I don't think it is significantly ABOUT such a concept although it certainly deals with how much time has passed since 1992.
I don't see how it can be denied. There's so much to point to, but one need only bring up Audrey's scenes. She's not where we would have ever envisioned her in terms of where her life ended up, something feels wrong about it, and about her, almost pathologically. And then when she finally arrives at the Roadhouse, she walks in extremely, visibly vulnerable as a song is playing, the lyrics rather overtly about lost opportunities by way of aging. She then does the most Audrey thing yet, a literal repeat of her dance, but something once again feels wrong about it, to the point we question what reality or lack thereof is at work.

It's not just that the 25 year interim is treated as a plot point. It's thematic.
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NormoftheAndes
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by NormoftheAndes »

AXX°N N. wrote:
NormoftheAndes wrote:I am often surprised when people declare that The Return is about nostalgia or deals with such concepts as time as it sounds so vague to me and also I'm just not convinced. I don't think it is significantly ABOUT such a concept although it certainly deals with how much time has passed since 1992.
I don't see how it can be denied. There's so much to point to, but one need only bring up Audrey's scenes. She's not where we would have ever envisioned her in terms of where her life ended up, something feels wrong about it, and about her, almost pathologically. And then when she finally arrives at the Roadhouse, she walks in extremely, visibly vulnerable as a song is playing, the lyrics rather overtly about lost opportunities by way of aging. She then does the most Audrey thing yet, a literal repeat of her dance, but something once again feels wrong about it, to the point we question what reality or lack thereof is at work.

It's not just that the 25 year interim is treated as a plot point. It's thematic.
A more over-riding theme of The Return then is surely mental illness? Audrey is clearly someone suffering great anxiety, depressive illness and I don't know what else. Undoubtedly time plays a huge part in that progressing but we only get glimpses in s3. Whilst I am happy to hear supernatural explanations for everything, it seems to me most likely that Agent Cooper himself has definitely suffered his own breakdown. So many of the characters throughout The Return are all suffering their own individual crises and mental troubles. Do they all relate to each other on a supernatural plane somehow also? Yes, absolutely. On some supernatural plane I think there is still the 'golden age' of Twin Peaks that Lynch has spoken of (Cahiers du Cinema interview) - the one many of us probably wanted to enjoy - where we could see Coop enjoy some pie in the Double R without a child shooting the place up. Some cool 50s-styled tune playing on the jukebox, modern yet retro. Nostalgia is great when it works and is possible but season 3 definitely dealt with something dark taking over the more innocent aspects of Twin Peaks that we enjoyed before.
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LateReg
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

Post by LateReg »

AXX°N N. wrote:
NormoftheAndes wrote:I am often surprised when people declare that The Return is about nostalgia or deals with such concepts as time as it sounds so vague to me and also I'm just not convinced. I don't think it is significantly ABOUT such a concept although it certainly deals with how much time has passed since 1992.
I don't see how it can be denied. There's so much to point to, but one need only bring up Audrey's scenes. She's not where we would have ever envisioned her in terms of where her life ended up, something feels wrong about it, and about her, almost pathologically. And then when she finally arrives at the Roadhouse, she walks in extremely, visibly vulnerable as a song is playing, the lyrics rather overtly about lost opportunities by way of aging. She then does the most Audrey thing yet, a literal repeat of her dance, but something once again feels wrong about it, to the point we question what reality or lack thereof is at work.

It's not just that the 25 year interim is treated as a plot point. It's thematic.
Right. I'm also surprised that it can be denied. It's frequently on the surface: "is it future or is it past?", "what year is this?", etc. As Norm poignantly points out, mental illness and illness and just deterioration or rot in general is also a major factor in The Return, factors that also coincide directly with the toll of time; like so much of The Return, the themes are intertwined, layered, working in unison to create a whole-feeling experience that can wash over you and simultaneously contain many individual levels to explore. The Audrey roadhouse scene may be about mental illness but it's also certainly about time and aging and the inability to reclaim former glory as the "Running Out of Sand" lyrics suggest and the dance itself (arguably) proves as it wrestles directly with nostalgia. While I really like Norm's ideas about the series and what they add to my understanding, I just don't see what there is to debate about the series' being heavily about time and nostalgia. It's overwhelmingly about those things on a thematic level. I've probably written over a hundred thousand words on the details of both myself lol, but I've now stayed away from a rewatch for two years so I can't get in-depth again at the moment, especially in this thread. But to me, this isn't vague, and it is overwhelmingly powerful.

Which very much makes me wonder what the overarching undercurrent of Season 4 would be/feel like. Will it still be about aging and death? Will time still play a factor, carrying directly over from The Return's mood and plot points, even though there will only be a 5 year gap between seasons?
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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That’s interesting. Hasn’t Laura worked on a Netflix production earlier?
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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krishnanspace wrote:That’s interesting. Hasn’t Laura worked on a Netflix production earlier?
They both have. Dern for the film Marriage Story and Watts for the short-lived, poorly reviewed drama series Gypsy.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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I bet, whatever happens regarding a season 4, this virus probably will fuck it up somehow.
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Re: Season 4? Or is it over after this?

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Mulholland Drive: The Return. Just calling it in case I'm right.
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