The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

General discussion on Twin Peaks not related to the series, film, books, music, photos, or collectors merchandise.

Moderators: Jerry Horne, Brad D, Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross

FrightNight
RR Diner Member
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:45 am

Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby FrightNight » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:42 am

There's more to Twin Peaks than David Lynch. Considerably more. There are other people of importance for its impact and legacy, too. Without them, it wouldn't be Twin Peaks as we know it. As such, some may deem it as s**t - but then, why are they even (still) talking about it?..
FrightNight
RR Diner Member
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:45 am

Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby FrightNight » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:46 am

Oh, and I don't consider my previous post as unrelated to the theme of this thread. I guess its contents amount to quite a controversial opinion around these parts :)
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:51 am

FrightNight wrote:There's more to Twin Peaks than David Lynch.


Agreed.

Considerably more.


Hm, well that depends on your definition of "considerably"! I do think the core/essence of TP is Lynch/Frost. Maybe with a bit more of an edge for Lynch primarily because he made the film (which defines/re-defines part of that core, and was the endpoint for 25 years) without Frost. Although with them collaborating again, it may end up looking like an almost-even split for them when all's said and done. And then again, the vast proportion of Twin Peaks had more Frost than Lynch so one could easily and compellingly make the case that actually it's Frost who has a bit more of an edge in defining its core/essence, depending how we ourselves measure that core/essence.

There are other people of importance for its impact and legacy, too.


Agreed, although I think there are several levels of importance, with Lynch/Frost at the top. All are not equal contributors.

Without them, it wouldn't be Twin Peaks as we know it. As such, some may deem it as s**t - but then, why are they even (still) talking about it?..


Well, aside form the fact that a lot of non-Lynch TP isn't s**t (do we have to modify swears? honest question as I never really considered that before, re: board policy)...part of the reason I talk about it still is BECAUSE some of it is, at any rate, not nearly as good as it could be. That unevenness makes it fascinating in a way a more perfect work would not be, and more exciting to pick apart and analyze and try to digest.

EDIT: Finished response to third quote (it was cut off before).
Last edited by LostInTheMovies on Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3159
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:04 pm

LostInTheMovies wrote:Hm, well that depends on your definition of "considerably"! I do think the core/essence of TP is Lynch/Frost. Maybe with a bit more of an edge for Lynch primarily because he made the film (which defines/re-defines part of that core, and was the endpoint for 25 years) without Frost. Although with them collaborating again, it may end up looking like an almost-even split for them when all's said and done. And then again, the vast proportion of Twin Peaks had more Frost than Lynch so one could easily and compellingly make the case that actually it's Frost who has a bit more of an edge in defining its core/essence, depending how we ourselves measure that core/essence.


I dunno. While I agree that the inception/creation stage is at least 50% Frost (Lynch himself has said that Frost might deserve more than 50% of the credit), Lynch has also exercised control as director, which, particularly in the seminal episodes, gives him an edge IMO. The way he tells it (and Frost has never disagreed), the Red Room was entirely Lynch's idea, as was Bob. Obviously Frost and the other writers later built on those concepts, and influenced the way Lynch used them in Episode 29 and FWWM, but the sheer visceral imagery and shocking nature of those elements of the show came straight from Lynch's warped mind. I imagine that at least some key elements of the new season will again evolve from on-set happenstance/inspiration. I think we can all agree that, had Lynch not come back to direct this season, we would have gotten a very different on-screen product, despite the same Lynch/Frost scripts being used.

None of this is meant to detract from Frost's contributions, which are brilliant and important. He and Lynch clearly feed off one another in an incredibly powerful way. And he obviously had his hand on the stern far more than Lynch did for most of the run of the series, including a lot of the portions of the show that I love in season 1 and early season 2. But if the Frost/Engels/Peyton version of Episode 29 had been shot as scripted, I'm not sure that I would ever feel the desire to rewatch anything after Episode 16. It's largely the knowledge that Lynch came back and kicked the door down in the final episode that redeems that stretch of the show for me, because I know it's leading somewhere. And in that light, I can enjoy it as a strange and fascinating interlude (with some scattered moments of brilliance), rather than the series' final sad legacy. I don't think that makes me any less of a TP fan than FrightNight - just a fan who enjoys different elements of the show, many of which seem to find their origin in Lynch.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3159
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:45 am

David Locke wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
David Locke wrote:Yeah, this reminds me of that discussion in the other thread recently about Lynch's wacky sense of humor actually being part of the show's aimless wackiness in S2, instead of all that being something completely outside of Lynch's sensibilities. Most of his material in that vein, characters like Andy and whatnot, appear to be confined to that weird stretch of 1988-1991 or so, though, when he was on top of the world.


Interesting point. I'd argue the Dumbland has some elements of that style, but it's obviously also its own weird thing in the Lynchian canon.

Yeah, it definitely is visible pretty much throughout his whole filmography to some extent. Incidentally, I think one of the reasons why Lost Highway is one of my favorite Lynch films is it probably has the least of that wacky humor in it of all (in fact probably the least humor of any kind). FWWM is pretty low on 'wackiness,' too, and rightly so; no wonder that LH and it are probably the most 'horror film'-esque Lynches.


You know, I've just been rereading the script for Ronnie Rocket, and there is a LOT of wacky humor in there, particularly with the scientists Dan and Bob (the latter of whom is basically an Andy-esque man-child). So that stuff dates back to the earliest days of Lynch's film career (I'm pretty sure the first draft of RR available online was written shortly after - or maybe even during - the making of Eraserhead.
User avatar
Clueless
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby Clueless » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:00 pm

It strikes me that as a potential never-ending television series Lynch got to inject hundreds of long-unused ideas into TP. Maybe he's the type of artist who just needs a massive canvas to start building a world (who knows if MD would have ever gotten created if it didn't begin as a potential lengthy show?)

It will be interesting to hear how Lynch describes his post-Inland Empire creatively fallow period after the new season airs. Who knows how many unrelated ideas he gave up on might be recycled for the show.

Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Agent Earle, Jonah, Mordeen and 27 guests