The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

General discussion on Twin Peaks not related to the series, film, books, music, photos, or collectors merchandise.

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Audrey Horne
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby Audrey Horne » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:30 pm

That's why my opinion is unorthodox and controversial. :wink:

Another one for me. Episode 19 is considered a stinker... And it is pretty uneven... But two things for me. I think the two Audrey scenes are home runs. I love the Bobby scene and the pay off, that essentially she is using him to find out what he's up to, and it's a fake out to save Cooper. (And she's in her spy hole again being awesome.) And her His Girl Friday scene with Cooper saving his bacon this time. Throw in Denise, and the whole scene sparkles perfectly for a non event episode. And then Charlotte Stewart gets to shine in the final scene, which I think is just beautiful. Ashbrook is really good in this episode too.
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby FrightNight » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:30 pm

Twin Peaks - the Audrey-Horne-show-that-it-wasn't ...
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby laughingpinecone » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:21 am

Brad D wrote:Ep 16 is fine and all, but wow, I wish Lynch had directed that one. Ep 17 too, assuming he would trash most of the script...

Hah, same.

Not sure how controversial of an opinion it is, but while I was originally a little frustrated by their choice of having Laura be the one who solves her own murder basically, it's grown on me. I'm not sure it was a deliberate choice on the writers' part, but to me, it feels like the perfect fit for that Lynchian sense of unknowability, a statement that Laura's murder could not be solved even by Coop's methods, and it also gives agency to Laura which is nice. I do not find the execution of that scene flawless, but I 100% support it in concept.
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby LostInTheMovies » Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:45 am

Dining With Diane wrote:I think a lot of the stuff in Season 2 after Leland's death is more about fleshing out Twin peaks as a town - the audience arrives in Twin Peaks with Dale Cooper, and for most of Season 1 we experience the town as outsiders getting a first glimpse of it like Dale. with Laura's murder solved and a good chunk of Season 2 over, we start to see all the other things going on in town that have nothing to do with Laura Palmer and that give us a better sense of the place.


It really seems like this was central to Frost's whole conception of the show although initially at least he was certainly willing to keep the murder mystery front and center as the prime narrative engine. But I can think of so many quotes where Frost emphasizes the importance of the town as a vast canvas of which he wants to explore every nook and cranny (right up to him writing this current book, which is apparently an all-encompassing deep history of Twin Peaks, going back to pioneer, or earlier, days). And about as many from Lynch emphasizing the key importance of that impenetrable, alluring mystery of who Laura was, what people's relationship to her was, why she died, and of course who killed her. Even when he talks about other characters/stories coming to the foreground and the Laura mystery fading into the background, it's clear that he still views it as a necessary horizon line to set everything up against, like Dorothy's situation in Blue Velvet or the baby in Eraserhead - and we all know what happens when Henry tries to get rid of THAT element: same thing that happened to the show basically! Complete chaos followed eventually by deliverance ;).
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby LostInTheMovies » Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:06 am

Some more opinions, though I don't think they're necessarily unorthodox/controversial - some don't seem to be widely shared.

- I LOVE the Harold Smith storyline. This to me is the heart of early season 2, yet I've heard many dismiss it as irrelevant filler. Go figure. I think Donna has never been better, and I love that it hones in on the personality of Laura and the effect she left on the show which is what the whole series should be about imo. (When she's the backdrop, even characters like Audrey - who wasn't close to her - come into sharper relief in relationship to her legacy.) Really, without that and the supernatural flashes - which are only really in ep. 10 - there wouldn't be much for me in ep. 10-12. The subplots, while not nearly as bad as they would get, feel a bit lackluster and forced; it's apparent that the writers are trying to "free" the characters from the Laura storyline but, unlike the mill story in S1, these plots usually lack tension/suspense/mystery or (in the case of Josie) they have it but lack any clarity or destination (the mill plot is obviously very convoluted too, but it's clear enough to follow who is allied with who at a given moment, and there's a clear goal in play: the burning of the mill; plus of course there's the general sense it might have something to do with the forces that killed Laura). And Harold's Theme is my favorite motif in the show. You can just sink into it. It instantly summons up a warm, melancholy feeling of sinking into a mystery: looking around the town's landscape on a rainy, misty day and wondering what secrets hover behind each door. It's romantic - maybe Romantic - in the broadest sense of the word.

- Episode 4 - 7 is my favorite stretch of the show, even though Lynch is MIA, the supernatural is quickly short-circuited, and the pace is much faster than typical Twin Peaks. For me, the funeral episode is NOT really the beginning of this stretch; it still holds on to the standstill, slowly-sinking-in feel of the pilot (which works perfectly well for its purpose). I really love ep. 4, which many consider a throwaway, and while I recognize all the flaws David Locke describes in ep. 7 - and definitely consider it the weakest of the final four - it works for me as a capper to this great buildup. This is the part of Twin Peaks that works contrary to what I USIALLY like about Twin Peaks: its willingness to go for broke on a single moment, the strangeness that makes you want to linger, the emphasis on mood over plot. Episodes 4 - 7 are all about narrative drive at a brisk pace, and it's VERY TV in the best sense: I can really envision myself watching it each week and feeling satisfied while also eager to tune in next week.

- Episode 28 is my least favorite episode. It's the only one that's a struggle to watch because even weak sauce like ep. 19 & 21 are fascinating for just how far over the cliff they go, plus there is a relaxed vibe to them since the writers/directors know they aren't going anywhere important. Miss Twin Peaks tries and - to me at least - fails to get our juices flowing, though it at least puts all the pieces in place for the finale and has some very cool moments (Windom w/ white face paint, for example).
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby Clueless » Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:58 am

FrightNight wrote:Twin Peaks - the Audrey-Horne-show-that-it-wasn't ...


Mulholland Drive was the Audrey-Horne-show-that-wasn't :wink:
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby FrightNight » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:22 am

Clueless wrote:
FrightNight wrote:Twin Peaks - the Audrey-Horne-show-that-it-wasn't ...


Mulholland Drive was the Audrey-Horne-show-that-wasn't :wink:


Yeah, I'm well aware of that. I was alluding to some folks' obsession with her, even though she was hardly one of the most important aspects of the show and has become downright marginal by its end ... But, hey, to each his own :)

Btw, Clueless, I still owe you my elaboration regarding the Denise character, it's just that I've been swamped with work lately (which is probably just as well, since I don't have the time to muse about TP 24/7 and feel sorry for myself as a fan since this is just a KILLER wait - is it possible it's a year and 3/4 of another since the new season's been announced?! And here we are, as oblivious of the contents as we were back in October of 2014 ...). I'll try to type something during the weekend and comment on your controversial opinions (Leo, Ben Horne, Cooper) at that.
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby Audrey Horne » Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:17 am

i thought Twin Peaks was eventually the Twin Peaks show that it wasn't.

And Fright, I agree -those people are insufferable.
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:52 am

Sorry if this is slightly OT, but it goes back to the discussion a page or so back about Lynch & Frost's involvement/responsibility for the controversial late-season-2 period of the show (and, let's face it, that period of the show is by default the main topic of conversation in this thread...)

Something that strikes me as a bit odd is the moment in 'A Slice of Lynch' when DKL talks about the "Cole kisses Shelly" scene as though he personally wrote it (something like, "I realized it was wrong, but I couldn't stop my hand from writing..."). I assume he was speaking somewhat metaphorically (we know DKL rarely if ever physically wrote on TP - he would speak while Frost would type). However, given this comment, do we think DKL might have actually had some hand in the writing of that scene (beyond just throwing the concept at Frost and saying, "I want to do this"?).

(More on-topic: I enjoy that scene a lot, even though it's very clearly behind-the-scenes wish-fulfillment and has nothing to do with anything else that comes before or after. Not sure if that's an unpopular opinion or not. Perhaps more controversially: I wouldn't terribly mind if Cole & Shelly turned out to be married in season 3).
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby Clueless » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:52 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:(More on-topic: I enjoy that scene a lot, even though it's very clearly behind-the-scenes wish-fulfillment and has nothing to do with anything else that comes before or after. Not sure if that's an unpopular opinion or not. .


Even though it almost works exclusively on a meta-level it still has a bit of a thematic resonance with all the old/young desire that goes on in TP. It's almost a sheepish confession and its weirdly self aware. I felt the same way about that scene where Lucy and Gwen are talking about vaguely about "Native Americans" in front of Hawk and apologize for being white, and Hawk (with slight sarcasm) replies that some of his best friends are white. That scene was weirdly self-aware on a few levels IMO.
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby bob_wooler » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:18 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:(More on-topic: I enjoy that scene a lot, even though it's very clearly behind-the-scenes wish-fulfillment and has nothing to do with anything else that comes before or after.

I really hope there will be tons of scenes that has nothing to do with anything else that comes before or after. :)
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby Dining With Diane » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:20 pm

Clueless wrote:
FrightNight wrote:Twin Peaks - the Audrey-Horne-show-that-it-wasn't ...


Mulholland Drive was the Audrey-Horne-show-that-wasn't :wink:


Blue Velvet is Agent Cooper: the early years, Lost Highway is the Laura/Maddy movie, and The Straight Story is sort of the Big Ed Hurley movie (he retires from the Gas Farm to become a tractor salesman).
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby LostInTheMovies » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:29 pm

Dining With Diane wrote:
Clueless wrote:
FrightNight wrote:Twin Peaks - the Audrey-Horne-show-that-it-wasn't ...


Mulholland Drive was the Audrey-Horne-show-that-wasn't :wink:


Blue Velvet is Agent Cooper: the early years, Lost Highway is the Laura/Maddy movie, and The Straight Story is sort of the Big Ed Hurley movie (he retires from the Gas Farm to become a tractor salesman).


The Straight Story is about the Milford brothers. :lol:
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby AgentCoop » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:49 pm

So is Dune the dream Cooper had after drinking Pete's fish-laced coffee?
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Re: The Unorthodox/Controversial TP Opinion Thread

Postby Snailhead » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:20 pm

Really glad to see some love for the Harold Smith storyline! He was one of the few characters introduced in S2 that I found to be truly interesting and worthwhile (along with the giant, senor droolcup, and the Tremonds).

Donna really shone in those scenes. The scene where she tells Harold the story about skinny dipping with Laura and some older boys is fantastic.

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