NON SPOILERS: Twin Peaks: Season 3 on Showtime Thread

[N. Needleman]

For my money, I think Kyle has always come off a bit sheepish to me when discussing the Audrey/Annie storyline switcheroo in years since. I think his basic point was valid, but I also think that storyline was baked-in and he knew about it early on before they switched gears, and knew they were not going to violate the character.

It's in what he doesn't say and how he seems to discuss it. He's very respectful about it, and always classy. By everyone's account there was never any screaming or shouting about the change, but I've often gotten the sense that he feels he put a foot wrong stepping in. I know he's said more than once that he felt that the Annie character was a nice idea that didn't quite come off. I think they did the best they could under the circumstances and I don't mind Annie - I wish we could see her once more in the new series - but the sudden shift is still abrupt and the character is fundamentally flawed because of the rush.

I could be full of shit. It could be pure fanwank. But that's often how I've read his reaction whenever he's been questioned on it over the years. That and not wanting to hang Lara Flynn Boyle, who he dated, out to dry. Lara was a very, very young woman feeling pressure from Hollywood to fill and satisfy a certain screen image, and a woman who, like Sherilyn Fenn, has had a rough road of her own since then.

I don't think any one person is a villain. I do think some of them made choices for their own personal reasons which ultimately impacted the show. I can only be so annoyed with LFB's alleged influence (and later snobbery towards the show) when she was just a 20-year-old girl expected to cut the right image on the red carpet. And I think it's likely every actor involved was insecure on some level.

[Si78]

Between Sheilyn and David Lynch, I've come to the conclusion that transcendental meditation is the practice of airing professional grievances on Twitter.

[Agent Sam Stanley]

I don't think Kyle regrets his decision. He seems unconfortable discussing it because he knows most fans are very sensitive about it. I guess at the time he would never expect so much backlash just because they've dropped a romance.

And throw all the blame on LFB also leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I seriously doubt Kyle would be against the romance just to please her. He didn't like the idea and I don't think I would either. Audrey was too young. The way his character handled the situation in ep 6 was sweet and mature. Then a few eps later he throws everything he said out of the window and starts to bed her? Was the show really that desperate? Guess we all know the answer.

[N. Needleman]

Then a few eps later he throws everything he said out of the window and starts to bed her?

I doubt that was the plan.

[Agent Sam Stanley]

As far as the "Miss Twin Peaks" contest, I'm fine with Sherilyn standing up for her character and protesting a plotline that was both cheapening to women and (IMO) a moronic time-filler, and far beneath TP's standards. Episode 28 is a strong contender for my least favorite episode of the show.

I highly disagree. I think that was very unprofessional. Regarding Miss Twin Peaks being a moronic time-filler beneath TP's standards, I think Gordon Cole "falling in love" with Shelly was even worse, and that's a moment most fans consider "TP getting back on its track". That's something I'll never understand lol

[Agent Sam Stanley]

I doubt that was the plan.

To my understanding, his moral speech in ep 6 explained to Audrey why nothing "romantic" could ever happen between them. So anything in that regard after that episode to me would seem "we're desperate, let's finally give fans what they're craving for because we don't know what to do".

[FrightNight]

I don't think Kyle regrets his decision. He seems unconfortable discussing it because he knows most fans are very sensitive about it. I guess at the time he would never guess there was going to be so much backlash just because they've dropped a romance.

And throwing all the blame on LFB also leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I seriously doubt Kyle would be against the romance just to please her. He didn't like the idea and I don't think I would either. Audrey was too young. The way his character handled the situation in ep 6 was sweet and mature. Then a few eps later he throws everything he said out of the window and starts to bed her? Was the show really that desperate? Guess we all know the answer.

I completely agree!

[N. Needleman]

To my understanding, his moral speech in ep 6 explained to Audrey why anything "romantic" could never happen between them. So anything in that regard after that episode to me would seem "we're desperate, let's finally give fans what they're craving for because we don't know what to do".

I think that scene and speech are wonderful and so important. That being said, they'd evidently decided to do Cooper and Audrey not long after that, and I doubt they were desperate as they were riding high as the biggest show in America - I think they just thought it was the logical conclusion of the storytelling. How they'd have done that reset is another story, but I think they only had strengthened the core of the relationship by making it clear Cooper was not just going to bed this confused high school girl.

[Sid]

In the end they wanted Cooper to end up in the lodge trying to safe someone he loves and failing to do so - again.
I can easily picture this person being Audrey instead of Annie. Even if their relationship always stayed in the realm of platonic, flirtatious friendship.
It would have felt more organic to me.
Annie was brought in way too late, everything about their romance was rushed and felt wrong by the very own standards Cooper set for himself.

[Agent Sam Stanley]

I think that scene and speech are wonderful and so important. That being said, they'd evidently decided to do Cooper and Audrey not long after that, and I doubt they were desperate as they were riding high as the biggest show in America - I think they just thought it was the logical conclusion of the storytelling. How they'd have done that reset is another story, but I think they only had strengthened the core of the relationship by making it clear Cooper was not just going to bed this confused high school girl.

Yeah, there's no way to know how they would have done it, but in my opinion, makes a lot more sense to keep Cooper as a tutor/father figure to Audrey rather than place them in a romantic relationship. Keep the characters apart on opposite ends was a bad choice in my opinion, but I agree with Kyle on the romance.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Yeah, there's no way to know how they would have done it, but in my opinion, makes a lot more sense to keep Cooper as a tutor/father figure to Audrey rather than place them in a romantic relationship. Keep the characters apart on opposite ends was a bad choice in my opinion, but I agree with Kyle on the romance.

I (almost) completely agree with you here. However, I think the playful flirtation could/should have continued as well (at least on Audrey's part) - there was a palpable chemistry between the two, and there's no way that a hormonal teenager would have suddenly just changed gears and decided to view Coop as a father figure. However, I agree that actually consummating the relationship would have been ill-advised.

As I said in an earlier post, I'll never understand why the writers seemed to view Coop/Audrey as an "all or nothing" thing - it seems they felt that they had to either consummate the relationship or separate them for the remainder of the show! I sometimes wonder if Kyle asked Frost to not even give him any scenes with Fenn to allay LFB's jealousy (or perhaps Frost incorrectly read this between the lines of what Kyle said, even if it wasn't intended) - but that's pure conjecture on my part. I can't think of any reason why they would COMPLETELY drop one of the most beloved character dynamics on the show.

As for "Ms. Twin Peaks," you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I think it's undeniable that Audrey's absence from a couple of dance numbers is completely inconsequential to the show, whereas Kyle's demand that the writers change the story - for better or for worse - was a far more egregious case of an actor overstepping.

[Agent Sam Stanley]

I (almost) completely agree with you here. However, I think the playful flirtation could/should have continued as well (at least on Audrey's part) - there was a palpable chemistry between the two, and there's no way that a hormonal teenager would have suddenly just changed gears and decided to view Coop as a father figure. However, I agree that actually consummating the relationship would have been ill-advised.

Oh no, when I say "father figure" I mean Audrey would see him as this older guy she listens to and respects, not that she would consider him her father.
The flirtation could have continued from her part, although the fact that Audrey's love interest changed from Cooper to Jack in a second always made perfect sense to me. When I was her age I had a different "love interest" every two weeks. I'd change from a teacher that I admired to the cute guy that just moved to my building. I guess that's part of being a teenager. I never thought Audrey should be "forever faithful" to Cooper in that sense. That's not what teenagers do and sounds a little "soapy" to me.

As for "Ms. Twin Peaks," you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I think it's undeniable that Audrey's absence from a couple of dance numbers is completely inconsequential to the show, whereas Kyle's demand that the writers change the story - for better or for worse - was a far more egregious case of an actor overstepping.

I've never said Kyle's behavior wasn't unprofessional. They both were. I understand and agree with his point of view regarding the romance, but if that's what the creative team wants to do, that's all there is to it. He has the right to give his opinion, as Sherilyn had the right to say she thought Miss Twin Peaks was ridiculous and offensive to women. But to say "I'm not doing it, sorry", that's just unprofessional behavior. From both of them.

[Ross]

I think Kyle actually had some kind of creative control clause over the Cooper character.

[FrightNight]

In the end they wanted Cooper to end up in the lodge trying to safe someone he loves and failing to do so - again.
I can easily picture this person being Audrey instead of Annie. Even if their relationship always stayed in the realm of platonic, flirtatious friendship.
It would have felt more organic to me.
Annie was brought in way too late, everything about their romance was rushed and felt wrong by the very own standards Cooper set for himself.

I don't remember any Cooper's standards that were demanding of him not to have a romantic relationship with a grown woman. Nor am I privy to any info that would speak of his realationship with Annie being wrong. Why was it wrong? Because she was an ex-nun who practically fell into his arms? That's still a long way from bedding a high-school minor just searching for a good father figure ...
About the "rushed" stuff that keeps getting repeated - did any of you ever hear about a thing called love at first sight? And besides, it's not like the relationship with Audrey would have developed out of a considerably longer mileage. I mean, how much longer did he knew her? 2-3 weeks??
And: we already had one pivotal scene of Cooper rescuing Audrey on the basis of their platonic, somewhat flirtatious friendship - One Eyed Jack's, anyone? Having it repeated in the case of the Black Lodge would be just a tad too trite.

[Audrey Horne]

Since it's my lot in life I guess to talk about the Audrey plot through the entire existence of time... Like that guy pushing the rock up a hill for eternity...

I personally feel there may be some confusion over time when Frost uses the words Romance or Consummation. That it automatically means the two would be bedding one another or that it would be treated in the manner of passion like Shelly and Bobby. The writing for A and C is very careful and specific in the first part of the second season, ripe with foreshadowing for a long payoff.

Cooper's self proclaimed unexpected concern of her disappearance and distracted by "the content of her smile" is in the same scene as the introduction of Windom Earle. His frustration to Truman upon rescuing her and endangering again is reinforcing the narrative of his past, and foreshadowing a narrative in the future with the Earle character with his and Audrey's. His conference with Ben is sinister when it is reinforced to the audience that the two have a "special relationship"... The writers reminding us that the two are intertwined but that there will be opposition. The list goes on and on in the first half of the second, especially in the written scripts of how the two are presented to each other. I actually believe the behind the scenes change wasn't affected until the episode where Audrey enters Ben's Civil War room and makes the phone call... The episode after she meets Denise.

There is a difference when using the example of episode six's Milkshake scene and Season Two. We forget everyone is a suspect and it is a murder mystery. And there is public reaction before the writing team even goes into plotting the second season. I personally always felt the power of the Milkshake scene was it made the two characters connection richer... One of the best examples of the power of Peaks (like Bobby crying to Jacoby or even Audrey crying while watching Leland) was when it peeled the onion and made you redefine what you thought about the characters. While Cooper refuses her, he actually connects with her much more intimately. Her sigh when he leaves always indicated to me that she actually loves him more (whereas before it was a fun daydream).

In one of Martha's interviews with WIP, she said Frost thought if they had gone ahead, Cooper would be more of a teacher to Audrey. And I can see this... Keeping the character where Audrey worked her best.... Impulsive impish detective that needed to learn to harness her energy. Martha also thought Lynch would continue to work with the more ethereal side of Audrey, the otherworldly power. (Like the dancing scene or praying almost telepathically to Cooper.).

In any case, I think the arc would have been handled as delicately as possible for the two (arguably) fan favorites at the time. If one looks closely at the Annie and Wheeler scenes, each one basically just represents the subtext of the A and C character's' traits. I imagine the writing would be similar. But also I did like the angle of Audrey as the same and opposite of Laura, and therefore Cooper might have a chance of saving her this time, Engles did tell me they hadn't planned the ending specifically but that yes, it was intended that it would have some sort of Windom, Audrey, Cooper plot.

All that said, I still think Peaks was never going to get that third season. The major public had grown tired of it.