Let's talk changes: how would you change the second season?

[Audrey Horne]

My friend finally watch the episode where Leland killed Maddy, and he and his wife were blown away. He was shocked, and not about the revelation of Leland, but about the events that happened. He can't wait for the next episode.

He brought up lots of interesting points -and was probably in keeping with what was on our minds at the time. What's Catherine's plot, and is she in cahoots with Josie to bring down Ben? They have a whole new investigation with Maddy, and he's convinced the show will now turn into who will be killed again, and there's enough info for Cooper to keep investigating and still keep us hooked until the rest of the season.

He's back to caring about everyone of the characters right down to Shelly quitting her job. Does Leland know what he's done? Is Ben going to be in jail now. He loved the Audrey/Ben scene and the power flip between the two, and he thinks she's going to keep helping Cooper but find out her father is innocent and actually help him.

I asked about who could be the next victim then. He said hopefully Donna. (hee hee, I love him) I asked him, not Audrey? And he said nah! -she'll be the target of Cooper's former partner guy -whom if thinks is already one of the characters on the show -in disguise! And it tie up all that foreshadowing that Cooper brought up when he rescued Audrey fro OEJ.

It was fun hearing about everything through a fresh point of view.

I don't have the heart to tell him things are about to go south.

[Brad D]

that is cool but kind of sad how the show had so much promise up until that point. i wish james had been killed next!

[The Magician]

I truly believe that this is the greatest television series ever produced, up to the final amazing seconds. And I get really upset by the heavy criticism the second season gets.

The second season I would say is, if anything, BETTER than the first season. It has far more impressive story lines and twists, more fantastically rich characters, and goes places no one could have imagined watching the first season.

I was so happy that the murderer was revealed in just a random episode from a little over halfway through the show. It was so unexpected, and a lot more powerful than had it been at a season finale or opener.

And the season proved that the show was so much more than "Who killed Laura Palmer?" It's almost a relief to get that out of the way and get to where the show really can go. I feel that the final six episodes are the strongest of all, and makes quite an epic final act.

Whether you think the second season is weaker than the first (a very valid opinion), it is by no means "bad". Certainly compared to ANY OTHER SHOW EVER, even great ones with a seriously high diversity of quality (take The X-Files... so many throw away episodes), the second season is still superior.

So, c'mon guys. Be a little gentler with your criticism. Just because it did not go where you wanted it to go, or become David Lynch's "vision" of what he wanted to do with it (keeping in mind it was not just his show by any means), does NOT mean it was bad. Twin Peaks is a 32 hour masterpiece of film making, 'nuff said.

And if we are talking about changing things, I wouldn't know where to start with Fire Walk With Me...

[Audrey Horne]

the new dvd has an excellent documentary on the second season -talking about it, and how most of the writers agree with the criticisms.

The main problem is that until the murderer is revealed, there's so much tension no matter what because bottom line everyone is a suspect, so there's always that element of uncertainty.

Most feel there were too many new characters brought in and they should have stayed with the core group.

Possible angles they were toying with were to make someone run away or have Audrey get pregnant, or possibly murdered (!!!)

But the consenus is that everyone was getting weary and tired.

I loved to talk about a way it could be streamlined and saved -and how to keep the Laura type core to the show.

[TheArm]

I do think it would have been hard to keep the Laura Palmer storyline going indefinitely. I think people would've gotten sick of it pretty quickly (as they already were). I'm ok with how and when they chose to resolve it. I think the mistake was having this huge lull after Ep 16 where we became mired in Evelyn Marsh, Little Nicky, Jean Renault, Lana, the pine weasel, etc. Had the Windom Earle storyline kicked in faster, I think that would've helped sustain the momentum, as I always felt like the show really starts firing on all cylinders again around Ep 25. As much as I liked the BOB/Lodges storyline, I probably would've kept it a bit more in the background; I do think the show abruptly changing in Season 2 from a psychological melodrama/murder mystery into a full-blown supernatural thriller with messages from outer space and references to Project Blue Book probably alienated (pardon the pun) a lot of people. I would've kept it a bit more vague as to whether Leland was possessed or just schizo. But I would have also had the Windom Earle storyline be more focused; I felt like his motives changed from episode to episode depending on where they needed the story to go that particular week.

And I know you're going to hate me for saying this Audrey Horne - and I TOTALLY respect your perspective on this - but I'm ok that Cooper and Audrey got their own respective love interests. I think that Cooper was absolutely right in Ep 6 when he said that it would've been wrong for a Federal agent to hook up with a teenage girl. I had a hard enough time imagining Cooper seducing away his mentor's wife, but him bedding a high schooler would've been taking it too far for my taste. I do think they should have sustained their harmless flirtation though, as they did have great chemistry!

But I'm still convinced that the biggest thing I would've changed about Season 2 was NOT MOVING IT TO SATURDAYS! I think THAT was the biggest killer of all. While I still think the ratings would've declined regardless after the initial hysteria over the show in the beginning of Season 1, they wouldn't have plummeted quite so dramatically if the network hadn't played with its timeslot and kept pre-empting it, especially in the pre-Tivo era with a show that demanded constant viewer attention.

But yeah, I think it's unfortunate that Season 2 gets so much slack. I think there are some wonderful moments and episodes in it and I love it even with (and even because of) all of its flaws.

[Jerry Horne]

We just interviewed Carel Struycken for our site and he told us that ABC moved Twin Peaks to Saturday nights to kill it because they had no control over the series and felt threatened. Stay tuned for this VERY interesting interview...

[Audrey Horne]

Oh no harm there, Arm. I would love to move on to other things because I do love everything about the early shows, not just harping on the Cooper/Audrey plot -I'm even getting sick of typing it. I've never said I wanted them bedding one another, but the connection maintained and all the foreshadowing from the earlier episodes. The charm of episode six is that it precisely diverts the obvious romance and enriches it towards a more spiritual connection.

Peaks definitely would not have survived against Cheers though -so the move from Thursday was smart. but maybe on a quiet Sunday to fire up people for the rest of the week.

[Ross]

I do think it would have been hard to keep the Laura Palmer storyline going indefinitely. I think people would've gotten sick of it pretty quickly (as they already were).

Yeah, its kind of funny how many people NOW say that they resolved it TOO EARLY, but when the show was actually on the air, people were REALLY pissed that it wasn't resolved quicker- a lot of people just bailed because they felt cheated!!! I remember after the first season finale, they had a small peice on one of the news magazine shows ("Primetime" maybe?) about TP, where they showed people's reactions, and they were all negative. People couldn't believe that the killer wasn't revealed. TV is really a much different animal today. Back then there weren't story arcs or mysteries that lasted a year.

[Ross]

I've never said I wanted them bedding one another, but the connection maintained and all the foreshadowing from the earlier episodes.

I totally agree Audrey, I just think that the writers did plan on having them "bedding one another", and THAT's what Kyle objected to (which I also agree with). I'm just not sure why the writers thought it had to be all or nothing.

[Evenreven]

"Let's talk changes..."

Okay, I love all of Twin Peaks, but I still think it's obvious that some parts didn't live up to its promise. While I love Annie, I still think from a story point of view that Audrey in the Lodge would have made sense. Part it was sloppy, part it was bad planning. I also think new characters of substance needed to be introduced since too many of the good characters were dead. With Laura and Maddy dead, Donna needs something to do, and to have her meet a mysterious young woman at Harold Smith's funeral seemed like a good idea when it crossed my mind. Also, someone here or another place suggested James doing work for the Bookhouse Boys instead of meeting Evelyn Marsh. I like that, and I included Joey Paulson in that too, since I think James needs a friend instead of just moping about with his boring girlfriend. There's also no big showdown in episode 16 ' instead Leland is on the loose ' and Sarah, Ronette and Mike continue to play a part.

(One thing I don't see mentioned is that a 22-episode season might have been a bad idea to begin with. It's too unwieldy for a high quality series like Twin Peaks and it makes spending time with scripts and stories harder. That's why, in my dream world, Twin Peaks would have had, say, a 13-episode second season and a 10-episode (approx.) third season. There's room for a cliffhanger-packed second season ending in there with some condensed action.)

Here are some thoughts:

8-14
Pete keeps in touch with Janek Pulaski, whom he meets at the hospital in episode 8. They drink milk and beer in a bar once or twice and talks about old times at the mill. Also, we occasionally see Donna, James and Audrey in class.

15
Ray Wise goes into a more quiet trance-like state, not the maniacal grinning bit. Maddy's found (EDIT: after some more thought I would wait until episode 18 or 19 to have Beth arrive to look for her missing daughter).

16
Sarah hears about Maddy's murder (EDIT2: see above). Ben's arrested. Leland starts acting suspicious and says to Sarah while almost in a trance: "I did not kill anybody". Sarah knows what has happened, but doesn't know what to do. Beth comes to town. No showdown at the Roadhouse or at the station, but some mystical encounter should fit here; maybe the Tremonds reappear.

17
Ben's trial hearing with Sternwood (a good way to bring back my favourite bit part). James leaves town, but keeps in touch with Ed. Donna attends Harold Smith's funeral and meets a stranger there who knows more than she lets on. Cooper and Briggsy go fishing.

18
James meets Joey Paulson, who has run away from home, to do work for the Bookhouse Boys, maybe in checking out Josie's past in Seattle or something else for Harry. Donna keeps talking to the stranger, who knows Harold from way back. Leland escapes into the dark woods. Andrew Packard turns up.

19
Janek takes Ronette Pulaski back home. Thanks to James tailing Josie from Seattle and finds out Jonathan is dead, Cooper is pretty confident who shot him. Donna meets the stranger at the Diner and she says that Harold was writing some notes about the dark side of Twin Peaks, and that she can feel something is happening. Leland is still in the woods. Mike shows up on Ronette's doorstep and she says: I've been waiting for you. Briggs returns.

Two-hour episode: 20.1
Briggs and Cooper talks about the lodge. Donna and the stranger, who is called Eve, become friends and break into Harold's house to find more of his writings. They reveal something about Bob and strange dark forces and Laura. Mike talks to Ronette. Ed and Norma are in love. Audrey and Cooper talk at the Northern. Thomas Eckhardt arrives and Josie dies. She becomes the drawer knob.

20.2
Cooper has another red room dream. This time about Josie and Bob. Could she have been possessed in some way? What is Bob? The dream doesn't really tell.
Next day, back at the station, Cooper tries to piece the information together and finds out about Leland's being missing, coming to the right conclusion with the Giant's help (in some form). Gordon Cole shows up. Mike and Ronette meet the Log Lady and together they find Leland, who is walking through the red curtains at Glastonbury Grove. Cooper talks to Audrey about her father's dark sides (and tells her that he at least didn't kill Laura) and about love. Some beautiful, ethereal music is playing and everything is nice. Then the lights go out and Windom Earle's taken a pawn.

TO BE CONTINUED

The third season:
Leland is found dead in the woods, but we can see Bob still being alive; the Windom Earle plot is thickening; Mike goes missing; Josie's and Leland's deaths will be investigated more fully; some new characters will be introduced; Sarah and Ronette will have prominent roles; Donna will try to comfort Sarah; the town will whisper about Leland; more high school scenes; Ben is released on lack of evidence of the drugs and illegal dealings; James will come back after some episodes away and do more work for the bookhouse boys; Andrew will re-surface and become a hero by announcing that the mill will be rebuilt; Audrey will try to maintain a relation to her father; Gordon meets Shelly; the Ed, Norma, Hank, Nadine problem continues; almost most importantly of all, Truman continues to learn from Cooper and they become really close; Briggs goes after Earle; the chess game continues, not as a red herring but a real plot to make Cooper scared; Audrey and Cooper will talk about Johnny in some way; the mask of Caroline; Cooper and Earle's back story will make for more than a few lines of exposition dialogue, but will instead be a driving force of the plot; More importantly, we see very little of Windom Earle at all, instead we see the results of his actions in the chess game - and he sure as hell doesn't kidnap Briggsy dressed as a horse (even though I kinda liked that scene); the Miss Twin Peaks pageant is suitably Peaks-ian instead of lame - and Julee Cruise will be the support act; Audrey wins; the last episode is unchanged, except that Audrey is in Annie's place.

Something like that. No enormous changes, but I think some of this could have worked.

[Audrey Horne]

me likey!

great work -I have something like this perculating in my head too.

I like the idea of Windom hardly being seen since I feel he loses a lot of power the more we see of him and his silliness. (the mind is always more frightening providing us with what we don't see) -of course, you would need a strong arc for the devilish Catherine.

*back before the advent of HBO miniseries, I don't think it would be possible to do anything less than a 22 episode series. But I think Peaks would have really thrived for many seasons if it could have had annual seven to thirteen episode seasons like Chase was able to do with Sopranos.

[Evenreven]

Thanks!

Yeah, I left Catherine out since I think some of her story works well in the bad episodes already. One unfortunate side effect of my post would be that there probably would have been no time for Josie being a maid, and that's one of my favourite parts. One idea I was toying with was Catherine standing by Andrew's side for a while, and maybe - just maybe - trying to force him out of the picture by season three's end. Maybe Andrew and Pete would have become buddies again, and it would have been insufferable to Catherine. I love her line about them bringing out the worst in each other. That could have worked. Maybe a season three cliffhanger would have Catherine trying to kill him - obviously I would need a replacement for the whole bank scene with Audrey in the Lodge. Dell Mibbler could have shown up earlier: when Andrew is trying to rebuild the mill he would need to visit the bank.

I strongly believe Windom being felt through a good chess game would have been infinitely more scary than all the scenes at the cabin. The glimpses we get of him really, really work. The mask scene is terrifying. And the scene at the police station is even better - and in my opinion good enough for an end-of-season cliffhanger. (Again I must sing the praises of Todd Holland's touches; he really understood the series while being completely different from Lynch. Episode 11 is amazing, especially the Valhalla part from Sternwood and Leland's confession. He couldn't help that the script for episode 20 was bad.)

I really think Donna should have been to Harold's funeral. (1) It would have given her something worthwhile to do; (2) she could actually have met someone new, and as the mortality rate in Twin Peaks is pretty staggering new substantial characters (as in Annie or Jack or Jonathan, not Dick or Lana) was in my opinion needed; and (3) making her feel guilty about Harold's death could have been an interesting touch. Certainly better than the "who's my daddy anyway" part. A lot of Twin Peaks was about guilty conscience anyway. Harold's story continued that line beautifully and could have been taken farther. Instead it's concluded in, what, two episodes? Not enough for me.

And you're probably right about the short season being impossible. I've been watching Hill Street Blues recently, and the first two seasons are 15 and 18 episodes long. However, that could be because HSB was the lowest-rated show ever picked up for a second season (or so I read). Seasons 3-7 are all about 22 episodes long. Then again, it was pretty clear that Twin Peaks was something new. With the enormous interest during the break, ABC could have been convinced shorter seasons was a good idea so they wouldn't spoil the magic. Not likely, but possible. Though if Dynasty is anything to go by, ABC would have tried to milk it dry - the seasons of Dynasty became longer and longer until it pushed the 30-episode mark.

Also, we'd have to keep in mind that David Lynch genuinely wanted to make a soap opera - even though frankly he had no idea how (his storylines make no sense over a long time) - and that would affected his judgment and driven him towards megalomania anyway. I don't think Frost really knew how to make a soap opera either. His take on the police genre is brilliant, but his take on soap isn't really that good.

One thing I didn't mention: I'd like Audrey to try the businesswoman part to try in vain to patch things up with her father, but he would only "do good" on the surface. Behind the scenes he would be scheming - possibly with someone new since Hank has turned on him. A new villain after all three Renaults have died would have been nice. Then Ben would outwit Hank with help from the new guy instead of Nadine kicking Hank's ass (I liked that scene, but still... it's ridiculous.)

[Tonya J]

Deleting, moving to another thread.

[Audrey Horne]

Maybe a season three cliffhanger would have Catherine trying to kill him - obviously I would need a replacement for the whole bank scene with Audrey in the Lodge. Dell Mibbler could have shown up earlier: when Andrew is trying to rebuild the mill he would need to visit the bank.

How about instead, Catherine is lured completely with the box and drags Pete with her to the bank. Ben, in yet another calculated block for Catherine to get a crack at Ghostwood chains himself to the vault. Audrey has entered Miss Twin Peaks only to thwart both Ben and Catherine and save the land -Ben feels Audrey's plot has ruined his plans and watches her win, but in disgust leaves before he knows her abduction. Catherine laughs off Ben's pathetic attempt at civil disobedience, and takes Pete with her into the vault, while Ben taunts her. She goes to open the vault, and Sylvia Horne barges into the bank exclaiming about Audrey's kidnapping -and Catherine smiles as she finally gets her prize -and BAM! -the Hornes and Packards potentially all blown up.

Like the Donna subplot also -and NO, NO, NO to the Ben as Donna's father desparate plot device. Peaks was always better than that.

[Evenreven]

Ooooh! Nice! I like the changed bank explosion part. Especially having Sylvia Horne barge in just before the explosion. Great idea! Maybe Sylvia can say "she's kidnapped and it's all your fault" or something like that.

I do like to have Andrew play a prominent part in there somewhere, though. Maybe he and Ben could have had a meeting earlier, like sometime late in the season - I have a feeling they might not see eye to eye. I love Dan O'Herlihy's acting, he and Beymer could have been great together. He would have called him "Benjamin"; formal, yet somewhat like an old friend.

One last thing about the Donna plot. I understand why the writers wanted her to actually have something to do. She hadn't done anything worthwhile in many episodes. But it's was too hokey and way too late to inject any life into the character. I actually really liked Donna up to episode 16 or so. She's confused, conflicted, and her best friend has just been brutally killed. To me she and James (and Maddy) make sense. They're the backbone of the very human drama that is Twin Peaks. There was all the room in the world for interesting character development, and Harold Smith's funeral seems like the most obvious plot device. Instead she plays second fiddle to the James/Evelyn plot. (I know I'm almost alone in finding enjoyment in the Evelyn Marsh plot, but even I think Donna is wasted in that plot).

Oh, and one more thing: at one point Audrey would want to go fishing. Why? Because Coop loves fishing, and she's in love and wants to impress him. But she's never been fishing before (Ben and Sylvia don't seem like the type). To prepare her for a real fishing trip with Coop, Pete offers to take her fishing. I love their scenes together. They could talk about love and about being young. Pete would hint that he's not entirely happy with life, but not be over-the-top emotional. Then later Audrey could take Annie's part in the fishing scene with Coop, the one with Windom watching.

We have it all mapped out, don't we.