'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31 (SPOILERS)

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billloomis
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby billloomis » Tue May 16, 2017 1:31 pm

secretlettermkr wrote:
billloomis wrote:I remember reading somewhere that David had no interest in reading THE SECRET HISTORY OF TWIN PEAKS. I cannot find that interview with him. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Wish i could find his comments on the book. I remember him saying something of this nature but for the life of me i can't locate it.


http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/09/twin-peaks- ... onference/


Thanks for the link. That looks like the source material i remembered reading. I personally have no issues with Lynch not wanting to read the book. Maybe he wants to know TP in his own way and what Frost has put forth is what he sees.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby Fire-blog-with-me » Wed May 17, 2017 1:37 pm

laughingpinecone wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:Something that just occurred to me: Frost has said that part of what he was interested in exploring in TSHoTP was subjective/unreliable memory. I wonder if this was to some extent influenced by his father's struggle with Alzheimer's. I watched my grandfather slowly lose his memory and his sense of place and time; it's a heartbreaking experience to try to imagine how frustrating and hellish that loved one's reality must look like from their POV, jumping between periods in their lives, conflating events and individuals from the present with those from decades past. Something like Robert Jacoby dying in 1970 and still being around for events that occurred decades later feels very much like the sort of thing my grandfather might have expressed in conversation. Particularly since we know that aging is a theme in the new season (I'm very excited to see Lynch/Frost tackle this), and Lynch often uses so-called "alternate realities"' to externalize mental states, I wonder if memory and its loss will end up being a theme in the new show as well.

Of course, the problem with the discrepancies in the book is the same as it always is when viewed in light of Frost's "unreliable memory" comments: it doesn't explain instances where we're dealing with historical documents like newspapers which misreport contemporary facts (and honestly, "unreliable memory" didn't come across as a theme to me in the text itself, despite Frost stating it as such in interviews). And a LH/MD subjective approach would be very difficult to pull off on TP due to its ensemble nature. But I am very curious to see how perception and memory will play into the new season, and particularly wonder how Frost will deal with these themes in TFD. If at least some of the seeming discrepancies end up being in the interest of exploring how beautiful and terrifying human memory can be, and if "alternate realities" somehow play out as a metaphor for the subjectiveness of memory a la LH, I'll feel much more satisfied than I would be by either a straight "alternate reality" approach or a conspiracy where Bob-Coop or someone else deliberately altered documents.

I didn't get "unreliable memory" either but I got "unreliable reality", which, close enough. In a realistic setting, a storyteller would have to limit themself to messing with the kind of details which fall within the realm of personal memories. In a surrealistic setting, extending that kind of dissonance to pure, verifiable & verified facts in a hyperbole allows the storyteller to trigger that kind of vertigo in readers who are otherwise quite sure of the reality they live in (and of the show they've obsessed over for 27 years).
I have no intel but I'll bet my prettiest hat that this "alternate realities" business will play out as you hope.


Just a random stream of thoughts on this:

I think at least with TSHOTP (likely applicable to The Return as well but for now we don't actually know anything so I will avoid speculation regarding that until we have seen footage from it) Frost's playing with both that unreliable memory and maximizing it outwards and upwards to unreliable reality. His vision or interest is in bringing worldliness and context to Twin Peaks, we see it across his episodes and in this book, think Windom Earle, The Norwegians/Icelanders, The Foreign Intrigue around Josie and Hong Kong/South Africa, Hank Jennings, Ben's Civil War, etc.--these are his hallmarks, an expanding horizontally of Twin Peaks to the outside world, a sentiment shared and echoed by our very own Joel/LostintheMovies, and by the Diane podcast gang.

So to me I love how Mark Frost probably took what was a powerful, devastating personal experience--Warren Frost's condition RIP--and applied it metaphysically and also within a literary/artistic tradition. But in keeping with that aforementioned worldliness, Mark frost was able to sync up Twin Peaks with a wider real life Weird phenomenon (The Mandela Effect) which has increased in recent years and has been affecting people's actual grips with reality and culture, sort of a fractal geometry of the sorts of Unreliable Memory that comes from Alzheimer's etc.

And on that note I'd just like to say I love this as a Frostian companion piece to Lynchian surrealism/metaphysics.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby Dom834 » Thu May 18, 2017 6:27 am

billloomis wrote:
secretlettermkr wrote:
billloomis wrote:I remember reading somewhere that David had no interest in reading THE SECRET HISTORY OF TWIN PEAKS.


I think people gave too much a negative twist to David's answer, usually those who hated the novel. He's not the type to be mean or take a shot at Frost or his book in an interview. That was just his way to turn down a question he didn't feel was addressed to the right person, not a rejection of Mark's book but making clear all the credit for the novel goes to Mark. "That's his novel".

He pointed out that they both brought different things to TP, but that they also both understood what the other brought. I'm sure he trusts Mark to handle his own contributions without watching over his shoulder what he did with it. I would have been surprised to learn that Lynch had read Frost's book while spending his days finishing the series (David just edited the equivalent of nine feature films in about a year and a half... small task, must have had plenty of leisure time...). I'm sure he has more interesting ways to relax than read Mark's retelling of their vision of the Twin Peaks mythology, and his expansion of the History. David hasn't read it and probably won't, he'd be hard pressed to express an opinion anyway, positive or negative.

Lynch endorsed the book anyway - Frost couldn't have written it without David's permission as co-creator. Frost even said when he talked of it to David, David encouraged him to go forward with it.

To me this is just David's version of Mark's refusal to interpret some elements brought in by David. "Ask David". The book... "Ask Mark".
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby hotcarl333 » Tue May 23, 2017 4:08 pm

re: the discrepancy about the winner of the Miss Twin Peaks competition. Earle attacked the ceremony and stole Annie, who then went missing for a few days and ended up bloody and possibly comatose. Maybe they just gave it to Lana, who in the meantime was leaning on her man, instead... as a quick whitewashing of the whole sad scenario.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby AJPRR2GO » Fri May 26, 2017 4:36 am

Anyone else in the UK get the email from Amazon yesterday saying that they are no longer selling this item!?
Because I did.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby musicaddict » Fri May 26, 2017 5:07 am

Yes. You need to re-order at this link https://www.amazon.co.uk/Twin-Peaks-Dos ... al+dossier
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby 4815162342 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:38 am

4815162342 wrote:Rewatching the 2nd half of season 2, I can see where it could have (and without Lynch's interference, maybe would have) gone in the direction of aliens. They certainly teased aliens, although the "correction" that the broadcast was coming from the woods was around ep 20 or so, deep into the Lynch-less period. It still seems like misdirection to me.

Hard to ignore the true story of Hank/Norma/Nadine/Hank, Annie existing, Norma's mother being a different character, Pete definitely playing chess, etc...

I guess in a week or so, we'll have some idea if it's all Frostian nonsense, or there's some grand conspiracy, or if they really decided to retcon most of season 2.

Amusingly, I still have no idea about this question after ep 5....
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby Henrys Hair » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:24 pm

Ed Victor, Frost's literary agent, has died. He had a lot of enthusiasm for this project. RIP.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jun/08/ed-victor-agent-to-the-stars-dies
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby vicksvapor77 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:46 pm

Did anyone see Mark Frost mention Annie's fate will be resolved in the book? Was in the new issue of The Blue Rose Magazine:

Q: Will we learn more about Annie and her fate in the new series?
A: All I can say is: Wait for my addendum to the book [Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier] to come out.
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:24 pm

claaa7 wrote:
Saturn's child wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:It's worth noting that Jennifer has also said she doesn't believe her dad read The Secret Diary.


What do you make of Frost's comment on his AMA ("Not true about the Diary: it became the basis for FWWM")? I'd always heard Lynch never read it, so was a bit thrown by Frost's reply.


there are entries from it did get to the screen so perhaps Lynch did read more of it than he let on.. you never know with this genius haha.

but what i think he meant is that Shreryl Lee carried that book with her to set EVERYWHERE, she said in an interview that Jennifer's book became almost as important as the script for her in finding the character and letting her know how to portray her in the film. so i guess that's what Frost meant.

just one thing, about the stuff about Frost calling "MD" uncoherrent and a mess in that old interview. they were obviously not on the best terms back then, and it was quite clear in the interview that he wasn't happy at all with Lynch so he was bound to make a snide remark. now they seem to be good friends again.. it's not a big thing, but i just think the way Lynch said that in the Q&A sounded a little bit dismissive like he was the only one with authority on Peaks but whatever, i probably read too much into it. Frost certainly likes "FWWM".

one interesting interview i read with Frost where the subject of "FWWM" came up, and the interviewer saying something like "You had nothing to do with FWWM" and he actually seemed to get quite irritated. "My name is up on that screen, I was an executive producer on that movie" he said.. the interviewer assumed this was just because he had created the original series which was definitely not the case according to Frost.. extremely interesting and i so wih i will find this interview again soon.



I always wondered about Marks involvement in FWWM. Because Warren Frost is in it, at least missing pieces.
Surely he would have some say if his father was on set.
I'm sure they would have at least discussed it at the time and however much Mark disagreed with the premise of it, I'm sure their would have been some input from Mark if only indirectly in conversations about the universe and the season finale and whatever else
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby claaa7 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:53 am

LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
claaa7 wrote:
Saturn's child wrote:
What do you make of Frost's comment on his AMA ("Not true about the Diary: it became the basis for FWWM")? I'd always heard Lynch never read it, so was a bit thrown by Frost's reply.


there are entries from it did get to the screen so perhaps Lynch did read more of it than he let on.. you never know with this genius haha.

but what i think he meant is that Shreryl Lee carried that book with her to set EVERYWHERE, she said in an interview that Jennifer's book became almost as important as the script for her in finding the character and letting her know how to portray her in the film. so i guess that's what Frost meant.

just one thing, about the stuff about Frost calling "MD" uncoherrent and a mess in that old interview. they were obviously not on the best terms back then, and it was quite clear in the interview that he wasn't happy at all with Lynch so he was bound to make a snide remark. now they seem to be good friends again.. it's not a big thing, but i just think the way Lynch said that in the Q&A sounded a little bit dismissive like he was the only one with authority on Peaks but whatever, i probably read too much into it. Frost certainly likes "FWWM".

one interesting interview i read with Frost where the subject of "FWWM" came up, and the interviewer saying something like "You had nothing to do with FWWM" and he actually seemed to get quite irritated. "My name is up on that screen, I was an executive producer on that movie" he said.. the interviewer assumed this was just because he had created the original series which was definitely not the case according to Frost.. extremely interesting and i so wih i will find this interview again soon.



I always wondered about Marks involvement in FWWM. Because Warren Frost is in it, at least missing pieces.
Surely he would have some say if his father was on set.
I'm sure they would have at least discussed it at the time and however much Mark disagreed with the premise of it, I'm sure their would have been some input from Mark if only indirectly in conversations about the universe and the season finale and whatever else


I read a great interview with Frost where he got the question why he wasnt involved in FWWM. He seemed upset saying something like of course i was involved in it, what do u think My exec producer credit on that film means?
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby sylvia_north » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:32 am

Fire-blog-with-me wrote:
laughingpinecone wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:Something that just occurred to me: Frost has said that part of what he was interested in exploring in TSHoTP was subjective/unreliable memory. I wonder if this was to some extent influenced by his father's struggle with Alzheimer's. I watched my grandfather slowly lose his memory and his sense of place and time; it's a heartbreaking experience to try to imagine how frustrating and hellish that loved one's reality must look like from their POV, jumping between periods in their lives, conflating events and individuals from the present with those from decades past. Something like Robert Jacoby dying in 1970 and still being around for events that occurred decades later feels very much like the sort of thing my grandfather might have expressed in conversation. Particularly since we know that aging is a theme in the new season (I'm very excited to see Lynch/Frost tackle this), and Lynch often uses so-called "alternate realities"' to externalize mental states, I wonder if memory and its loss will end up being a theme in the new show as well.

Of course, the problem with the discrepancies in the book is the same as it always is when viewed in light of Frost's "unreliable memory" comments: it doesn't explain instances where we're dealing with historical documents like newspapers which misreport contemporary facts (and honestly, "unreliable memory" didn't come across as a theme to me in the text itself, despite Frost stating it as such in interviews). And a LH/MD subjective approach would be very difficult to pull off on TP due to its ensemble nature. But I am very curious to see how perception and memory will play into the new season, and particularly wonder how Frost will deal with these themes in TFD. If at least some of the seeming discrepancies end up being in the interest of exploring how beautiful and terrifying human memory can be, and if "alternate realities" somehow play out as a metaphor for the subjectiveness of memory a la LH, I'll feel much more satisfied than I would be by either a straight "alternate reality" approach or a conspiracy where Bob-Coop or someone else deliberately altered documents.

I didn't get "unreliable memory" either but I got "unreliable reality", which, close enough. In a realistic setting, a storyteller would have to limit themself to messing with the kind of details which fall within the realm of personal memories. In a surrealistic setting, extending that kind of dissonance to pure, verifiable & verified facts in a hyperbole allows the storyteller to trigger that kind of vertigo in readers who are otherwise quite sure of the reality they live in (and of the show they've obsessed over for 27 years).
I have no intel but I'll bet my prettiest hat that this "alternate realities" business will play out as you hope.


Just a random stream of thoughts on this:

I think at least with TSHOTP (likely applicable to The Return as well but for now we don't actually know anything so I will avoid speculation regarding that until we have seen footage from it) Frost's playing with both that unreliable memory and maximizing it outwards and upwards to unreliable reality. His vision or interest is in bringing worldliness and context to Twin Peaks, we see it across his episodes and in this book, think Windom Earle, The Norwegians/Icelanders, The Foreign Intrigue around Josie and Hong Kong/South Africa, Hank Jennings, Ben's Civil War, etc.--these are his hallmarks, an expanding horizontally of Twin Peaks to the outside world, a sentiment shared and echoed by our very own Joel/LostintheMovies, and by the Diane podcast gang.

So to me I love how Mark Frost probably took what was a powerful, devastating personal experience--Warren Frost's condition RIP--and applied it metaphysically and also within a literary/artistic tradition. But in keeping with that aforementioned worldliness, Mark frost was able to sync up Twin Peaks with a wider real life Weird phenomenon (The Mandela Effect) which has increased in recent years and has been affecting people's actual grips with reality and culture, sort of a fractal geometry of the sorts of Unreliable Memory that comes from Alzheimer's etc.

And on that note I'd just like to say I love this as a Frostian companion piece to Lynchian surrealism/metaphysics.


Yes, I agree. They're both metaphysical dudes - the tricks the mind plays on itself is a subject you can go back to over and over. Reality is surreal...

Every time someone refers to this press conference, I don't interpret his words as distancing himself from the book at all, no matter what he says. He told a friend of mine it was a standalone thing you "didn't have to read" and another friend of ours took that to mean "it's just a fan side thing, don't bother applying it to the show."

"We discovered this world. And within this world there are other worlds," he says, then "We’re both strong, but both different. We bring to the table different things, but we each understand the other thing." Just because Lynch "hasn't read it. It's his Secret History" doesn't mean they aren't on the same page about the deeper historical symbolism, the actual myths they're drawing from, occult and supernatural elements. The universal field, like Milford comes to understand in the book, is that all strange phenomenon comes from the same place, and "magic is just science we don't understand yet" to quote Arthur C Clarke. So far things are very very interconnected.

Subjective and unreliable memory are themes in esoteric Buddhism and Theosophy. Illusion- both self-deception and trickery- makes a shadow world, just as the Tibetan llamas have shadow incarnations (doubles in flesh and blood, or spirit selves, if you look up mayavik and tulkism) operating as extensions from a single Major Being/consciousness center, having different functions on earth and in the spirit world. No one is really who they think they are- the Wizard of Oz plays with mayavik. It's a psychological exploration of the ego self on the way to enlightenment. We're escaping from unreal reality to get "home" to the true state- which isn't always the material world, constantly changing due to tricks or "humbug" of ego.

David and Mark are bringing their own twists on the same themes to their contributions and like a good team trust that they'll click harmoniously without much effort.

Unreliable reality and multiverses 8)
https://theosophywatch.com/tag/quantum-physics/
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fearltd
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby fearltd » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:01 pm

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but someone posted this link earlier, but now they have a cover up. Is it simply a Russian printing of "Reflections" or possibly something new? I'm leaning toward the former, but I'm not 100%. The cover is pretty cool though.

7f739ac83c08dcd093d7860f7db0e1b5.jpg
7f739ac83c08dcd093d7860f7db0e1b5.jpg (74.26 KiB) Viewed 7643 times


https://book24.ru/product/tvin-piks-besedy-sozdatelya-seriala-marka-frosta-s-glavnymi-geroyami-zapisannye-zhurnalistom-bredom--1574435/
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby Twink Peaks » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:17 pm

fearltd wrote:Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but someone posted this link earlier, but now they have a cover up. Is it simply a Russian printing of "Reflections" or possibly something new? I'm leaning toward the former, but I'm not 100%. The cover is pretty cool though.

7f739ac83c08dcd093d7860f7db0e1b5.jpg

https://book24.ru/product/tvin-piks-besedy-sozdatelya-seriala-marka-frosta-s-glavnymi-geroyami-zapisannye-zhurnalistom-bredom--1574435/


Reflections :(
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Re: 'Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier' Novel by Mark Frost 10/31

Postby sylvia_north » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:09 am

fearltd wrote:Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but someone posted this link earlier, but now they have a cover up. Is it simply a Russian printing of "Reflections" or possibly something new? I'm leaning toward the former, but I'm not 100%. The cover is pretty cool though.

7f739ac83c08dcd093d7860f7db0e1b5.jpg

https://book24.ru/product/tvin-piks-besedy-sozdatelya-seriala-marka-frosta-s-glavnymi-geroyami-zapisannye-zhurnalistom-bredom--1574435/


It's the Russian Secret History of Twin Peaks judging by the owl glyph and that it says "marka frosta" in the web address
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