Fire-blog-with-me wrote: laughingpinecone wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:Something that just occurred to me: Frost has said that part of what he was interested in exploring in TSHoTP was subjective/unreliable memory. I wonder if this was to some extent influenced by his father's struggle with Alzheimer's. I watched my grandfather slowly lose his memory and his sense of place and time; it's a heartbreaking experience to try to imagine how frustrating and hellish that loved one's reality must look like from their POV, jumping between periods in their lives, conflating events and individuals from the present with those from decades past. Something like Robert Jacoby dying in 1970 and still being around for events that occurred decades later feels very much like the sort of thing my grandfather might have expressed in conversation. Particularly since we know that aging is a theme in the new season (I'm very excited to see Lynch/Frost tackle this), and Lynch often uses so-called "alternate realities"' to externalize mental states, I wonder if memory and its loss will end up being a theme in the new show as well.
Of course, the problem with the discrepancies in the book is the same as it always is when viewed in light of Frost's "unreliable memory" comments: it doesn't explain instances where we're dealing with historical documents like newspapers which misreport contemporary facts (and honestly, "unreliable memory" didn't come across as a theme to me in the text itself, despite Frost stating it as such in interviews). And a LH/MD subjective approach would be very difficult to pull off on TP due to its ensemble nature. But I am very curious to see how perception and memory will play into the new season, and particularly wonder how Frost will deal with these themes in TFD. If at least some of the seeming discrepancies end up being in the interest of exploring how beautiful and terrifying human memory can be, and if "alternate realities" somehow play out as a metaphor for the subjectiveness of memory a la LH, I'll feel much more satisfied than I would be by either a straight "alternate reality" approach or a conspiracy where Bob-Coop or someone else deliberately altered documents.
I didn't get "unreliable memory" either but I got "unreliable reality", which, close enough. In a realistic setting, a storyteller would have to limit themself to messing with the kind of details which fall within the realm of personal memories. In a surrealistic setting, extending that kind of dissonance to pure, verifiable & verified facts in a hyperbole allows the storyteller to trigger that kind of vertigo in readers who are otherwise quite sure of the reality they live in (and of the show they've obsessed over for 27 years).
I have no intel but I'll bet my prettiest hat that this "alternate realities" business will play out as you hope.
Just a random stream of thoughts on this:
I think at least with TSHOTP (likely applicable to The Return as well but for now we don't actually know anything so I will avoid speculation regarding that until we have seen footage from it) Frost's playing with both that unreliable memory and maximizing it outwards and upwards to unreliable reality. His vision or interest is in bringing worldliness and context to Twin Peaks, we see it across his episodes and in this book, think Windom Earle, The Norwegians/Icelanders, The Foreign Intrigue around Josie and Hong Kong/South Africa, Hank Jennings, Ben's Civil War, etc.--these are his hallmarks, an expanding horizontally of Twin Peaks to the outside world, a sentiment shared and echoed by our very own Joel/LostintheMovies, and by the Diane podcast gang.
So to me I love how Mark Frost probably took what was a powerful, devastating personal experience--Warren Frost's condition RIP--and applied it metaphysically and also within a literary/artistic tradition. But in keeping with that aforementioned worldliness, Mark frost was able to sync up Twin Peaks with a wider real life Weird phenomenon (The Mandela Effect) which has increased in recent years and has been affecting people's actual grips with reality and culture, sort of a fractal geometry of the sorts of Unreliable Memory that comes from Alzheimer's etc.
And on that note I'd just like to say I love this as a Frostian companion piece to Lynchian surrealism/metaphysics.
Yes, I agree. They're both metaphysical dudes - the tricks the mind plays on itself is a subject you can go back to over and over. Reality is surreal...
Every time someone refers to this press conference, I don't interpret his words as distancing himself from the book at all, no matter what he says. He told a friend of mine it was a standalone thing you "didn't have to read" and another friend of ours took that to mean "it's just a fan side thing, don't bother applying it to the show."
"We discovered this world. And within this world there are other worlds," he says, then "We’re both strong, but both different. We bring to the table different things, but we each understand the other thing." Just because Lynch "hasn't read it. It's his Secret History" doesn't mean they aren't on the same page about the deeper historical symbolism, the actual myths they're drawing from, occult and supernatural elements. The universal field, like Milford comes to understand in the book, is that all strange phenomenon comes from the same place, and "magic is just science we don't understand yet" to quote Arthur C Clarke. So far things are very very interconnected.
Subjective and unreliable memory are themes in esoteric Buddhism and Theosophy. Illusion- both self-deception and trickery- makes a shadow world, just as the Tibetan llamas have shadow incarnations (doubles in flesh and blood, or spirit selves, if you look up mayavik and tulkism) operating as extensions from a single Major Being/consciousness center, having different functions on earth and in the spirit world. No one is really who they think they are- the Wizard of Oz plays with mayavik. It's a psychological exploration of the ego self on the way to enlightenment. We're escaping from unreal reality to get "home" to the true state- which isn't always the material world, constantly changing due to tricks or "humbug" of ego.
David and Mark are bringing their own twists on the same themes to their contributions and like a good team trust that they'll click harmoniously without much effort.
Unreliable reality and multiverses https://theosophywatch.com/tag/quantum-physics/