The Secret History of Twin Peaks

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eyeboogers
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby eyeboogers » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:10 pm

Seems to me, that the person who'd have the most to gain from Annie going missing from recorded history, would be Annie herself. Perhaps seeking to go into deep hiding from a certain ex-boyfriend. She is my best bid for being the final archivist.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Teopeaks » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:13 pm

I think we're going to learn that Annie's real name is Judy. But we're not going to talk about it now, are we...
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby johndaker » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:57 am

(I originally posted this in the other SHoTP thread before realizing that one was, at least ostensibly, a non-spoiler thread. Re-posting it here.)

Just finished listening to the audiobook, having read the print novel when it first came out. I noticed something on the final disc that hasn't been mentioned here yet, so far as I can remember.

To present the conversation between Milford and Briggs dated May 17, 1985 (pages 345-348 in the book), the audio production makes an intriguing choice. Just one actor, the one portraying Milford in other sections of the book, reads both Milford's and Briggs' lines in this dialogue (introducing each change in speaker by saying "Milford:" or "Briggs:").

All (or almost all? I can't remember if there are any other exceptions) of the other "conversation" sections are acted out using different voices for each role. For instance, the Nixon/Milford/Gleason conversation is voiced by three different actors. But here, just one voice reads both roles.

The most obvious reason for this would be to avoid appearing to confirm or deny the true identity of the Archivist. After all, if the Archivist is really supposed to definitively be Briggs, why not have the Archivist's voice in the Briggs role? It seems like the obvious thing to do, and it would be more consistent with the other sections of the book. Of course, if a third voice were to be used for Briggs, that would seem to confirm that the Archivist is *not* Briggs. The production tries to avoid lending credence to either theory by presenting the scene in the way that they do.

But in doing so, I think they nonetheless end up supporting the theory that something's very fishy about what the Archivist tells us toward the end of the book. After all, if all the mistakes and discrepancies in the text -- or anyway, all the mistakes and discrepancies that don't pertain directly to Annie -- simply are mistakes (along the lines of the Apollo 11 stamp mistake, which Frost has confirmed is a simple error), and if the Archivist simply is Briggs (with the intention on Frost's part that readers simply accept what we're told in the "Listening Post Alpha" section without second-guessing it), then I highly doubt that the decision ever would have been made to avoid having the Archivist actor also voice Briggs.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby FauxOwl » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:06 am

It seems to me Annie could be key to many of the incongruities in the dossier and the narrative we know of. If Annie was somehow erased from existence, that could lead to a kind of butterfly effect chain reaction that would effect many aspects of Norma's life, including possibly how long their mother lived, and perhaps even when Norma gets married to Hank, which would then affect when Big Ed "notices" Nadine. Obviously that would effect the outcome of the Miss Twin Peaks pageant. It is a stretch to explain away Laura's age, granted. Perhaps the events in the Red Room in ep 29 caused more than one disturbance in the linear reality we know of, one of which was Annie being erased from existence, the others of which could explain away the other incongruities.

I'd also been mulling the large announced cast list for a bit. It's a rather unusual step to release such and extensive and seemingly complete cast list so early. If they hadn't no one would be clamoring for it. Perhaps they did it to set up some "surprise" appearances. Heather Graham has been quoted as saying she's not involved but she wishes she was. Something doesn't add up about it. Granted, the character of Annie herself seems something like an after thought, a plug in romantic interest for Cooper. But nevertheless, her named was evoked in one of televisions most brutal cliffhangers, one that was so enduring the series was revived after 25 years. It's possible Graham's schedule or price may have precluded her involvement in the new season... BUT if the existence of Annie is somehow central to the new elements of the third season, it would make a lot of sense to keep Graham's involvement a secret. This could be the case for other cast members as well. I'd be happy to see Ontkean make a surprise appearance... perhaps he did not want to make the commitment to play a major part in the new series so Mark and David created the Frank Truman character to fulfill much of the purpose Harry would have served in the original script, but they were able to incorporate the character enough to satisfy a more limited commitment that wouldn't interfere with Ontkean's showbiz retirement too much. I'd also be happy to see some of the other FWWM characters make an appearance, and again it would make sense to keep them off the cast list so we can enjoy a nice surprise when they appear.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby CooperDog » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:21 pm

Something that I've been thinking about; not an original thought, but after reading all 100(!) pages of this thread...

Someone (perhaps on this board), has mentioned that there is distinct possibility that IF Laura wrote what Annie told her to write in her diary, then maybe that is a missing page that could be the key to getting the "good" Cooper back out. I don't believe that all of the [PAGE TORN OUT] pages from The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer were confirmed retrieved. What if someone still has the Annie-directed diary entry hidden away? I mean, who would have thought that Darth Vader's melted mask would still be around 30 years after his funeral pyre? :lol:
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby eyeboogers » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:05 am

This is interesting. If Annie wasn't the key to it all somehow, this dossier would have been the most logical place for that Diary page to turn up many years later.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby N. Needleman » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:15 am

I have always assumed the message from Annie in FWWM would play into any continuation. This allows Laura to be central to Cooper's salvation.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Ross » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:24 am

N. Needleman wrote:I have always assumed the message from Annie in FWWM would play into any continuation. This allows Laura to be central to Cooper's salvation.

Lynch specifically said that the message would have come into play. Maybe they stuck with that.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Panapaok » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:53 am

N. Needleman wrote:I have always assumed the message from Annie in FWWM would play into any continuation. This allows Laura to be central to Cooper's salvation.
Yeah, I bet Laura actually wrote it in her diary.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby Mordeen » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:51 am

IIRC Leland had those pages last. After murdering Laura and dumping the body, his next stop was the Lodge. While they don't show what he does with them, pages are found near the Grove but there's no clear indication what they contain.

Alas, but Annie's warning in print may have gone into the Lodge with Leland, and like the evidence of his crime, were wiped away by Bob.

There's certainly no mistaking that Annie's fate ties in to everything. How (not if) they handle it remains to be seen.

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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby OK,Bob » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:19 pm

Mordeen wrote:IIRC Leland had those pages last. After murdering Laura and dumping the body, his next stop was the Lodge. While they don't show what he does with them, pages are found near the Grove but there's no clear indication what they contain.n

Sticking to the timeline established by the original run and FWWM, Leland tore out those pages before Laura gave the diary to Harold (Feb. 16th?), which all was before Annie appeared to Laura (Feb 17th?). Subsequent loose-leaf "secret diary" entries are known to exist, however, as one dated Feb. 22nd appears in Ep 16, delivered to Donna by the real Mrs. Tremond.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby madeleineferguson » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:21 pm

I've always thought that Sarah could discover the message amongst Laura's things some day. Another possibility would be someone like Tamara Preston finding the message after reexamining all of the evidence in the original case file. But it's a little tough to believe Cooper would have missed his own name.
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby CompletelySilent » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:58 am

Hello all! My name is CompletelySilent(as it sounds like an interesting quote on the surface without context, but is also the words of the great Nadine Hurley) and I am excited to join this group of swell Twin Peaks fans here. I have an idea based on some of the last posts on this forum about the lost pages of Laura Palmers diary and Annie. Maybe the chain of events was Leland in FWWM having the ripped pages with him in Glastonbury Grove, but the page saying that the Good Dale is in the lodge was dropped or something near the circle. Months later during the Season 2 finale, Annie finds the page as she is being brought into the Black Lodge by Windom Earle. At some point during her journey into the lodge, she travels through time to Laura's room and tells her to write down that page. It creates a circular structure of time between FWWM and the original run of the show with the hope that it helps Coop get free(and maybe even Annie and/or Laura as well). Something that could be a narrative point for Season 3 and beyond(or this isn't the case and Lynch/Frost write something that his probably better than this idea).
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby CooperDog » Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:06 am

OK,Bob wrote:
Mordeen wrote:IIRC Leland had those pages last. After murdering Laura and dumping the body, his next stop was the Lodge. While they don't show what he does with them, pages are found near the Grove but there's no clear indication what they contain.n

Sticking to the timeline established by the original run and FWWM, Leland tore out those pages before Laura gave the diary to Harold (Feb. 16th?), which all was before Annie appeared to Laura (Feb 17th?). Subsequent loose-leaf "secret diary" entries are known to exist, however, as one dated Feb. 22nd appears in Ep 16, delivered to Donna by the real Mrs. Tremond.


For me, the question then becomes: Did Leland get all of those pages disposed of (ripped up in the train car or deposited at Glastonbury Grove)? If he didn't, or if Laura managed to put them somewhere else, this opens the door way more than a crack for a new investigation. Especially if Dale Cooper has "vanished."

Also-where did Mrs. Tremond get the diary page again? Was it Harold or did she find it? If she found it, I'm sure that Mrs. Chalfont/Tremond left it for her, right?
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Re: SPOILERS: The Secret History of Twin Peaks

Postby OK,Bob » Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:16 am

CooperDog wrote:Also-where did Mrs. Tremond get the diary page again? Was it Harold or did she find it? If she found it, I'm sure that Mrs. Chalfont/Tremond left it for her, right?

The real Mrs. Tremond found it in her mail the morning after Harold died. It was in an envelope addressed to Donna Hayward in Harold's handwriting...
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