The Secret History of Twin Peaks

[FredTruax]

Pg 82.

Interestingly enough, the style of writing actually reminded me more of Mark Z. Danielewski than DFW... Even the format is somewhat reminiscent of House of Leaves.

great pull! yes i agree the format is more in line with that than it is with IJ (If we are restricting our universe of discourse to inscrutable PoMo darlings-lol). I really referenced Wallace because of the quote on "being able to mimic various voices" not necessarily the format of his magnum opus.

[Mordeen]

I do not think this is in any way comparable to George Lucas and Star Wars. It's a tie-in with some fuzzy points of continuity. It's not Greedo shot first or the ballad of midichlorians.

I get tired of overheated geek culture dealing entirely in absolutes, with something being either perfect or the worst thing ever, some supreme violation. In the end, no, I do not think a book that contradicts or muddles the finer points of Ben's subplot or Ed and Norma's backstory to be something that destabilizes the core of Twin Peaks as we know it. But that's me.

Wasn't aware there's a division between a good (ie. positive) and a bad (ie. negative) geek ... Oh, well, you learn something new every day ... Kudos to you, Needleman, for falling into the right compartment of geekdom (since you post here practically every day, I hope you don't mind me calling you a geek). Us negative geeks who actually dare to bother with something called continuity and sticking to previously established facts (including such unimportant trivia as character names, per example) will just have to live with being "whining assholes", as we're known on Reddit.

He wasn't speaking to whether or not you're a good or bad geek, but rather that "geekdom" tends to take itself way too seriously and often forgets that the creative forces behind these things it loves don't always concern themselves with the little details. Geekdom has been lampooned endlessly for being too serious.

Enjoy the art.

Let the little things go.

Prepare yourselves for one of (if not THE) greatest events in television history, again.

Relax.

-Mordeen

[Mr. Reindeer]

For me, the issue is like the page in MLMT about Coop investigating Teresa that contradicts FWwM. It doesn't really affect the overall story or who the characters are, it just makes it harder to get lost in fiction. Sort of like reading a bad newspaper article. When the facts don't line up, you begin to wonder what else is incorrect in the work that you are reading.

Yes, this is a lot of it. Surely the purpose of a book like this should be to add to the show's verisimilitude, not detract from it. Oh, well.

100% agree with both of these posters. While I overall really love the book and its additions to the canon, THIS is why the continuity errors really do detract from the experience for me. It makes the many terrific new additions, as brilliant and fun as they are, a little more difficult to digest, because I'm repeatedly being pulled out of the narrative by details that remind me it's a (sometimes poorly-assembled) work of fiction. And the nature of the book suggests that the exact OPPOSITE was its intent.

And it's sort of depressing to me that a writer of Mark's experience and great talent apparently can't (or can't be bothered to) distinguish between Rashomon-style subjective memory and full-on retconning of Vivian Smythe's name, core character traits, and date of death, wiping out a 3+ episode story arc from the original series.

It seems like Mark's GQ interview is much more PR-focused than the interview with Brad (and thank you, again for that, Brad!). Mark knew that the GQ interview would reach a far broader demographic of potential book-buyers and knew that saying, "parts of my book were written subjectively from the point of view of amnesia patients" probably wouldn't move units, so he put a more positive spin by saying that he "revisited the first series" "more extensively" than he did before writing S3. Note how carefully phrased this is. It doesn't tell us that he rewatched the entire show - or even that he watched a single episode. All he says is that he put in MORE time "revisiting" it (whatever that means) than he did pre-S3. That doesn't bode well for any callbacks in the new season - I'm putting my faith in Lynch.

On the other hand, I am heartened by Mark's telling Brad that the new season sprang almost entirely from Episode 29 -- possibly my favorite episode of the show.

It seems, sadly, that Mark subscribes to the view some users have voiced on this board -- that it just wouldn't be TP without the continuity gaffes. For those concerned that they may have forgotten that Annie is Norma's sister, let's face it -- Lynch, Frost, Peyton AND Engels had ALL managed to forget this fact by the time Episode 29 was scripted and shot in 1991. Sadly, it's probably unrealistic for anything to change at this point. Sigh.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Boy. I just started the audiobook and the beginning is pretty tedious. The narrator reads every form in its entirety, including stuff like "DO NOT WRITE IN THESE SPACES." I'm gonna try to stick it out to see if there are any variations (and to hear the familiar voices), but this thing was DEFINITELY made to be enjoyed in physical form.

[luridedith]

Just out of curiosity, how do you put people on ignore here? Not to single anyone out but I would like to enjoy this thread without that constant negativity and hostility. Its been quite a wonderful, mature discussion otherwise. Thanks.

[OK,Bob]

Just out of curiosity, how do you put people on ignore here? Not to single anyone out but I would like to enjoy this thread without that constant negativity and hostility. Its been quite a wonderful, mature discussion otherwise. Thanks.

Click on 'User Control Panel' in the upper right-hand corner.

On the control panel page, click on 'Friends & Foes' in the column on the left, then on 'Manage Foes' on the left.

Post from members on your Foe list will be hidden (or, at least, minimized) in the feed... Enjoy!

[LonelySoul]

Just out of curiosity, how do you put people on ignore here? Not to single anyone out but I would like to enjoy this thread without that constant negativity and hostility. Its been quite a wonderful, mature discussion otherwise. Thanks.

Can't help but think this post is in part due to my rantings on here.

Let me clear the air a bit. Look, I know my opinions about the book are unpopular. But I've had some more time with it and, while I don't think I'll ever elevate the book to canon and instead keep it around the same level as the other tie-in books, I'm not as upset about it as I was before.

I've deleted my less-than-chipper tweets to Frost (although the image still remains on these boards). You all are right - it's no way to be toward someone else.

I'm used to having unpopular opinions about this show. It's funny - I have spent a good amount of time being unpopular for liking latter season two and now I'm spending time being unpopular for not liking the latter portion of this book.

I just really wanted this super-immersive experience where Frost lovingly crafted this wonderful book that paid attention to all the details from the original run of the show. And we got most of what that previous sentence described, with the exception of the details part. A lot of the book is really cool (the Denver Bob stuff, the Lewis and Clark stuff, etc.). I love historical fiction, so that stuff sat well with me. And the rest of the book is well written and engaging, it's just the details that get under my skin.

It does make one wonder though - if whole characters, story arcs and other details that were (are...ish?) canon can be written over and many fans are totally okay with it, why have canon or continuity at all? Does it even matter what happens on the screen or in the pages now? After all, Lynch or Frost could just decide to change stuff and apparently no one here would mind. Is it just because people care less about Vivian or some of the other stuff that they're okay with it? What if, for example, the book reported that Cooper threw pine cones instead of rocks, or that he liked tea instead of coffee? Would people care then?

These aren't accusations, just genuine questions. When do retcons/changes/etc. become a problem?

Anyway, I feel the need to say that while I've been a thorn in some of your sides, I really enjoy being able to talk to other fans about the universe. I've made good friends with others in the fandom through podcasts and things like the Fest and I want to keep it that way. I'll just have to live with my bitterness and allow myself to talk about the book and upcoming show without being so lame about it.

Cheers, friends.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that since Frost has stated in so many words that he did go back and review stuff and we still have these errors that he is more or less just admitting to not caring about some details and carrying on anyway. While I don't like this, he at least acknowledges it and I respect that.

[mtwentz]

Just out of curiosity, how do you put people on ignore here? Not to single anyone out but I would like to enjoy this thread without that constant negativity and hostility. Its been quite a wonderful, mature discussion otherwise. Thanks.

Can't help but think this post is in part due to my rantings on here.

Let me clear the air a bit. Look, I know my opinions about the book are unpopular. But I've had some more time with it and, while I don't think I'll ever elevate the book to canon and instead keep it around the same level as the other tie-in books, I'm not as upset about it as I was before.

I've deleted my less-than-chipper tweets to Frost (although the image still remains on these boards). You all are right - it's no way to be toward someone else.

I'm used to having unpopular opinions about this show. It's funny - I have spent a good amount of time being unpopular for liking latter season two and now I'm spending time being unpopular for not liking the latter portion of this book.

I just really wanted this super-immersive experience where Frost lovingly crafted this wonderful book that paid attention to all the details from the original run of the show. And we got most of what that previous sentence described, with the exception of the details part. A lot of the book is really cool (the Denver Bob stuff, the Lewis and Clark stuff, etc.). I love historical fiction, so that stuff sat well with me. And the rest of the book is well written and engaging, it's just the details that get under my skin.

It does make one wonder though - if whole characters, story arcs and other details that were (are...ish?) canon can be written over and many fans are totally okay with it, why have canon or continuity at all? Does it even matter what happens on the screen or in the pages now? After all, Lynch or Frost could just decide to change stuff and apparently no one here would mind. Is it just because people care less about Vivian or some of the other stuff that they're okay with it? What if, for example, the book reported that Cooper threw pine cones instead of rocks, or that he liked tea instead of coffee? Would people care then?

These aren't accusations, just genuine questions. When do retcons/changes/etc. become a problem?

Anyway, I feel the need to say that while I've been a thorn in some of your sides, I really enjoy being able to talk to other fans about the universe. I've made good friends with others in the fandom through podcasts and things like the Fest and I want to keep it that way. I'll just have to live with my bitterness and allow myself to talk about the book and upcoming show without being so lame about it.

Cheers, friends.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that since Frost has stated in so many words that he did go back and review stuff and we still have these errors that he is more or less just admitting to not caring about some details and carrying on anyway. While I don't like this, he at least acknowledges it and I respect that.

Good points, can't really argue with you here.

[Jacoby]

It does make one wonder though - if whole characters, story arcs and other details that were (are...ish?) canon can be written over and many fans are totally okay with it, why have canon or continuity at all? Does it even matter what happens on the screen or in the pages now? After all, Lynch or Frost could just decide to change stuff and apparently no one here would mind. Is it just because people care less about Vivian or some of the other stuff that they're okay with it? What if, for example, the book reported that Cooper threw pine cones instead of rocks, or that he liked tea instead of coffee? Would people care then?

These aren't accusations, just genuine questions. When do retcons/changes/etc. become a problem?

It's not a black and white thing man. It's not perfect continuity vs. why bother with continuity. Not "I'm Canceling my preorder" vs. "I Am Totally Fine With This". Its just that most people are more in the middle of these arguments. The truth of the matter is that the errors/changes just haven't really fundamentally changed the hearts or motives of the characters, nor have they messed with the nature of the show. The reason people got so salty about Greedo shooting first was that it changed the nature of the Han Solo character. The gaffes in this book really just haven't gone that far. If the book had Cooper throwing a pinecone instead of a rock in the book, I'd say to myself, "Man, what an easily avoided error", but I'd find it easy to move on because it didn't change anything inherent about Coop, the show, etc. The Ed/Nadine thing is certainly a goof, but it didn't change the poignancy of the scene in the show or change their characters beyond a surface detail. Same with the Vivian thing (I've seen people post minimal mental gymnastics to explain that one off anyway).

Some fans find every detail to hold an immense weight, and that is really fine. Some fans take the other end of the spectrum and go the "I'm just thankful for new stuff" route, and that's also super fine. I feel like most float around at the midway point between there though.

[Mr. Reindeer]

So on the audiobook, the narrator (sorry, I haven't ID'ed which voices are which) says "classical natuary" where I'm 99% it should be "classical statuary" (page 17 in the book). When I read the book, I assumed this referred to the statue in the Red Room.

This is interesting from a behind-the-scenes standpoint because it seems to indicate that the narrator was reading directly from the cursive writing in the text (I can definitely see how the "st" looked like an "n" to him).

[Soolsma]

I don't really feel like setting it up since I don't have much to say or add on the matter, but maybe it would be nice to have a seperate thread on the retcons/changes?

btw: Still here with just my google book preview pages, no book yet

[Mordeen]

So on the audiobook, the narrator (sorry, I haven't ID'ed which voices are which) says "classical natuary" where I'm 99% it should be "classical statuary" (page 17 in the book). When I read the book, I assumed this referred to the statue in the Red Room.

This is interesting from a behind-the-scenes standpoint because it seems to indicate that the narrator was reading directly from the cursive writing in the text (I can definitely see how the "st" looked like an "n" to him).

Statuary, yes. Waiting room visit by Meriwether Lewis, yes.

Craziness.

-Mordeen

[Mattkrall]

Hey guys, long time lurker here, I think I'm ready to join you guys in the woods.

I finished the book early today. I have some thoughts:

-As a history major I absolutely loved this book for a reason you may not think. The historical facts and personalities were, of course, great, but Frost actually put together the closest thing to historical analysis as possible. Being a historian and writing, for example, a thesis, you are required to find many different primary sources from obscure places and compile them together to fit a narrative. This, I believe, will be the closest non-historians will get to experience the feeling of historical research (even if it is made up haha). I'm curious, does Frost have a background in history?

-I absolutely CANNOT believe that Richard Nixon is now part of the Twin Peaks canon. I have spent much of my college career assessing his political life (and becoming borderline obsessed with him). I was not disappointed. He even wore the ring!!!!

-The Ed and Norma story was absolutely heartbreaking. I now understand that Ed and Normas relationship was more than just being high school sweethearts and Nadine being crazy.

-The last 40 pages were beautiful. I know some people on here feel like it was rushed, but damn. Some of Jacoby's thoughts on Laura and Margarets musings at the funeral was absolute poetry.

-The ending gave me chills. Honestly, I'm glad Frost didn't tell us much about what happened to Cooper after the finale. it makes me more excited for the new season.

-Enjoyed the annotations, extremely weird to see references to iPads in a book about Twin Peaks.

MAYDAY

[madeleineferguson]

I loved the book, I actually read it cover to cover in almost one sitting. I was riveted, and genuinely shocked a few times. I have much to say about it, as I think we all will, but I'll need some time to read it again, and absorb some things.

It is a strange feeling to finally have some answers to questions that have been nagging me for over 25 years. My heart sank a few times reading this book, just knowing the fates of some characters. Did this happen to anyone else? It almost feels like grief.

I'm extremely perplexed about the omission of Annie Blackburn. I may have missed her somehow, but I do not believe she is mentioned even once in the entire book. How's Annie, indeed.

The Vivian thing... I think probably that should be it's own thread. To quote Dougie, it's a clusterfuck.

The love for Catherine Coulson and Margaret Lanterman was unbelievably touching. A truly beautiful tribute.

It's unthinkable that Piper Laurie will not make a surprise guest appearance in the new season of Twin Peaks. Catherine is not dead, she could have easily been killed off, and she wasn't. It's going to be Tojamura part two. A surprise cameo from her would probably garner a lot of press for the new series.

I wonder if Cooper/BOB realized Garland Briggs was onto him and murdered him shortly after his last entry into the dossier? That would explain the abrupt ending.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Hoping that someone at some point posts a "who's who" of the audiobook narrators, because I have a tin ear for this sort of thing. I've finished Disc 1, and am not at all sure if I've heard any voices I should have recognized.