Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

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Ross
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by Ross »

Ross wrote:I wonder if more "closure" scenes were filmed for some of the other stories? And they were eventually cut to give LESS closure? I know a scene was filmed with Jacoby and Nadine in a restaurant (maybe a date)? And more scenes with Red & Shelly? So maybe more with Becky/Steven as well?

I could also swear there was a baby at the RR for a scene(?)
Time for people to pull out all the on-location pics and compile a list of deleted material!

We know there were additional scenes with Goodeve, Shelly/Red, Jacoby/Nadine...

And who did mtsi see on location? Or were they just pulling our leg?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by BHell »

Ross wrote: Time for people to pull out all the on-location pics and compile a list of deleted material!

We know there were additional scenes with Goodeve, Shelly/Red, Jacoby/Nadine...

And who did mtsi see on location? Or were they just pulling our leg?
Conspiracy Theory:
Lynch has already secretely finished filming "Season 4" back then and he's currently editing those scenes for a release next summer. Announcement from showtime in a few weeks.

... Nah, probably not.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by lotjx2 »

Ross wrote:My questions about Judy:
Judy is in fact the Experiment/Mother, correct? The figure Mr. C was searching for. And do we assume that Judy in now in Sarah?

Was the thing that escaped the glass box Judy/Experiment/Mother? And if so, do we then assume that it only possessed Sarah AFTER that?

Which we would then assume the the 1950s girl is NOT sarah?
Judy is in Sarah, but I have a massive problem with this Judy can create an alternate world. Then why not do that from the start? Why create Bob when you can literally create your own timeline. It makes no sense. I think Judy can maybe follow them through the worlds, but that is about it. I think the world Sarah, Dale and Diane are in is our world. It makes the most amount of sense. The person behind the door is David Lynch. He is the dreamer and he like Phillips said would remember this. He is telling the woman what to say about the past history, because he researched it. When Laura screams they will be transported back to Lynch's mind where if there is a season 4, we will see it if then we are SOL, but David knows the true end. We did not get the end of Twin Peaks, we got a continuation.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by TheGum »

I totally disagree with this, but it seems like you are suggesting that since Lynch is the dreamer, he depicted them exiting his dream into the real world and now Judy is out here among us? That could be cool on first look, but ends up feeling way too cheap, almost Shamalan-ish. No.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by cgs027 »

BHell wrote:
Ross wrote: Time for people to pull out all the on-location pics and compile a list of deleted material!

We know there were additional scenes with Goodeve, Shelly/Red, Jacoby/Nadine...

And who did mtsi see on location? Or were they just pulling our leg?
Conspiracy Theory:
Lynch has already secretely finished filming "Season 4" back then and he's currently editing those scenes for a release next summer. Announcement from showtime in a few weeks.

... Nah, probably not.
I'd have to imagine we'll get some sort of Missing Pieces equivalent, especially now that Showtime has a piece of the pie and wants to recoup their investment. By adding that to the DVD (yeah, I'm old school)/BluRay release, they will guarantee themselves more potential buys.

(Although I DO wonder how much additional footage really exists -- it may not be much at all).
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by Jacob »

TheGum wrote:
Jacob wrote:
TheGum wrote:
I don't believe Laura is the embodiment of nirvana, I believe she was created as an example, an extreme example of suffering to show how to reach nirvana. How to detach from that suffering. She has reached nirvana.
So why, when she was saved by Cooper, she was transfered to another timeline and not to "nirvana" ? Why she still exists ? And with a corpse in her living room ? And screaming like she's possessed ? The ending of FWWM looked like she may have reached nirvana. This ending, much more dark, brutal and real, less so imo :?
Nirvana is a state of being, not a place. She attained this by escaping the suffering here on earth. Her purpose in Coopers storyline now is as a test, "when you see me again it won't be me." FWWM is the end of us following Laura's journey. The Return is all about Cooper's. Remember the LMFAP says to him early in in his Black Lodge entrapment-- "there is no where to go but home." LMFAP is not evolved, he is at his base the evil that was present in Gerard. The Return proves you can't go home. He was mocking Cooper, and whether or not the Buddhist idea speaks to you, the Return proves you can never go home.
Oh OK, if you think that Carrie Page is not Laura, I understand your point of view now. But the thing is, even is Carrie Page is not Laura, it doesn't change the fact that Laura isn't dead anymore ! And if Laura isn't dead anymore, how can she still be "in" nirvana (you're saying it's a "state of being", but it's a state accessible through death...) ? She still exists somewhere : Cooper has cancelled her death but not her birth.
For me, that's the real tragedy of the ending : Laura had found peace through death, and Cooper has brought her back to life against her will... She cried and laughed because she was free at the end of FWWM : she's now screaming because she's stuck in reality.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by cowwithfivelegs »

N. Needleman wrote:For months I was fooled - I thought Lynch would go for the ultimate happy ending, have Laura resurrected because he could. Instead he did the Monkey's Paw with Dale. (And as I've always said, he was wrong about the ring in FWWM IMO. I've been telling people that for years - Cooper didn't know what he was talking about, he just wanted to save Laura.)
N. Needleman wrote:
TwinsPeak wrote:Can you explain more what you mean by Cooper didnt know what he was talking about? I have also always thought Cooper told Laura the wrong thing, please explain how you interpret it.
Cooper tells Laura not to take the ring because he is trying to save her life. But the ring was the only thing that could save Laura's soul from BOB and deliver her to salvation, despite her having to die to do so. He was missing the big picture.

Cooper does the same here - tries to save Laura, succeeds. It does not go well.
I respectfully disagree with this sentiment.

By Laura taking the ring, she forces BOB's hand into killing her, thus guaranteeing her death. If she hadn't, yes, she would've been consumed by BOB, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she couldn't have been saved at a later date from this horror--which we can now assume would be by the Blue Rose Task Force.

You're definitely right though that Cooper tells her not to take the ring because he's trying to save her life, but the possibility remains that her salvation could still be achieved in other ways that we can only now imagine.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by Ross »

lotjx2 wrote:
Ross wrote:My questions about Judy:
Judy is in fact the Experiment/Mother, correct? The figure Mr. C was searching for. And do we assume that Judy in now in Sarah?

Was the thing that escaped the glass box Judy/Experiment/Mother? And if so, do we then assume that it only possessed Sarah AFTER that?

Which we would then assume the the 1950s girl is NOT sarah?
Judy is in Sarah, but I have a massive problem with this Judy can create an alternate world. Then why not do that from the start? Why create Bob when you can literally create your own timeline. It makes no sense. I think Judy can maybe follow them through the worlds, but that is about it. I think the world Sarah, Dale and Diane are in is our world. It makes the most amount of sense. The person behind the door is David Lynch. He is the dreamer and he like Phillips said would remember this. He is telling the woman what to say about the past history, because he researched it. When Laura screams they will be transported back to Lynch's mind where if there is a season 4, we will see it if then we are SOL, but David knows the true end. We did not get the end of Twin Peaks, we got a continuation.
I don't think we can assume Judy has the power to actually create another reality. Although that certainly could be one interpretation. Cooper changing history had consequences. Whether by Judy's influence or not...
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by TheGum »

cowwithfivelegs wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:For months I was fooled - I thought Lynch would go for the ultimate happy ending, have Laura resurrected because he could. Instead he did the Monkey's Paw with Dale. (And as I've always said, he was wrong about the ring in FWWM IMO. I've been telling people that for years - Cooper didn't know what he was talking about, he just wanted to save Laura.)
N. Needleman wrote:
TwinsPeak wrote:Can you explain more what you mean by Cooper didnt know what he was talking about? I have also always thought Cooper told Laura the wrong thing, please explain how you interpret it.
Cooper tells Laura not to take the ring because he is trying to save her life. But the ring was the only thing that could save Laura's soul from BOB and deliver her to salvation, despite her having to die to do so. He was missing the big picture.

Cooper does the same here - tries to save Laura, succeeds. It does not go well.
I respectfully disagree with this sentiment.

By Laura taking the ring, she forces BOB's hand into killing her, thus guaranteeing her death. If she hadn't, yes, she would've been consumed by BOB, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she couldn't have been saved at a later date from this horror--which we can now assume would be by the Blue Rose Task Force.

You're definitely right though that Cooper tells her not to take the ring because he's trying to save her life, but the possibility remains that her salvation could still be achieved in other ways that we can only now imagine.
No way, dude! If BOB had consumed her she would have to accept the consequences and emotions of what she had done as BOB and most likely would have ended up dead anyway. That's no salvation. Cooper is running a fools errand over and over because of his need to be the hero.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by FredMadison »

Any significance to the cars? In episode 2 (I believe) Evil Coop puts his Mercedes in storage and gets a black Lincoln from Jack. Jack's face is crushed. The scenes that follow involve Darya and Evil Coop in the motel room. In episode 18, it's Good Coop (or Richard) driving, if not the same, an identical Lincoln? Or a Lincoln is simply just a default FBI Agent car, with no direct connection?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by cowwithfivelegs »

TheGum wrote:
cowwithfivelegs wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:For months I was fooled - I thought Lynch would go for the ultimate happy ending, have Laura resurrected because he could. Instead he did the Monkey's Paw with Dale. (And as I've always said, he was wrong about the ring in FWWM IMO. I've been telling people that for years - Cooper didn't know what he was talking about, he just wanted to save Laura.)
N. Needleman wrote:
Cooper tells Laura not to take the ring because he is trying to save her life. But the ring was the only thing that could save Laura's soul from BOB and deliver her to salvation, despite her having to die to do so. He was missing the big picture.

Cooper does the same here - tries to save Laura, succeeds. It does not go well.
I respectfully disagree with this sentiment.

By Laura taking the ring, she forces BOB's hand into killing her, thus guaranteeing her death. If she hadn't, yes, she would've been consumed by BOB, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she couldn't have been saved at a later date from this horror--which we can now assume would be by the Blue Rose Task Force.

You're definitely right though that Cooper tells her not to take the ring because he's trying to save her life, but the possibility remains that her salvation could still be achieved in other ways that we can only now imagine.
No way, dude! If BOB had consumed her she would have to accept the consequences and emotions of what she had done as BOB and most likely would have ended up dead anyway.
No different than Cooper having to live with the actions of his Doppelgänger while host to BOB.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by SpookyDollhouse »

cowwithfivelegs wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:For months I was fooled - I thought Lynch would go for the ultimate happy ending, have Laura resurrected because he could. Instead he did the Monkey's Paw with Dale. (And as I've always said, he was wrong about the ring in FWWM IMO. I've been telling people that for years - Cooper didn't know what he was talking about, he just wanted to save Laura.)
N. Needleman wrote:
TwinsPeak wrote:Can you explain more what you mean by Cooper didnt know what he was talking about? I have also always thought Cooper told Laura the wrong thing, please explain how you interpret it.
Cooper tells Laura not to take the ring because he is trying to save her life. But the ring was the only thing that could save Laura's soul from BOB and deliver her to salvation, despite her having to die to do so. He was missing the big picture.

Cooper does the same here - tries to save Laura, succeeds. It does not go well.
I respectfully disagree with this sentiment.

By Laura taking the ring, she forces BOB's hand into killing her, thus guaranteeing her death. If she hadn't, yes, she would've been consumed by BOB, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she couldn't have been saved at a later date from this horror--which we can now assume would be by the Blue Rose Task Force.

You're definitely right though that Cooper tells her not to take the ring because he's trying to save her life, but the possibility remains that her salvation could still be achieved in other ways that we can only now imagine.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by TheGum »

cowwithfivelegs wrote:
TheGum wrote:
cowwithfivelegs wrote:


I respectfully disagree with this sentiment.

By Laura taking the ring, she forces BOB's hand into killing her, thus guaranteeing her death. If she hadn't, yes, she would've been consumed by BOB, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she couldn't have been saved at a later date from this horror--which we can now assume would be by the Blue Rose Task Force.

You're definitely right though that Cooper tells her not to take the ring because he's trying to save her life, but the possibility remains that her salvation could still be achieved in other ways that we can only now imagine.
No way, dude! If BOB had consumed her she would have to accept the consequences and emotions of what she had done as BOB and most likely would have ended up dead anyway.
No different than Cooper having to live with the actions of his Doppelgänger while host to BOB.
Disagree. Mr. C is a different person.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by cowwithfivelegs »

TheGum wrote:
cowwithfivelegs wrote:
TheGum wrote:
No way, dude! If BOB had consumed her she would have to accept the consequences and emotions of what she had done as BOB and most likely would have ended up dead anyway.
No different than Cooper having to live with the actions of his Doppelgänger while host to BOB.
Disagree. Mr. C is a different person.
I'm sure he'll casually dismiss his doppelganget's actions as easily as you just did.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Post by TheGum »

cowwithfivelegs wrote:
TheGum wrote:
cowwithfivelegs wrote:
No different than Cooper having to live with the actions of his Doppelgänger while host to BOB.
Disagree. Mr. C is a different person.
I'm sure he'll casually dismiss his doppelganget's actions as easily as you just did.
Fair, but if BOB was to overtake her, her best bet is Leland's fate.

Also- it does seem like Cooper really does just move right on rather than consider what his Doppelcoop did. I wonder about that. Dream logic? Delayed reaction? Thoughtless writing?
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