Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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The Gazebo
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby The Gazebo » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:38 am

This is the reading which makes the most sense to me:

"The remaining hour and a half of Twin Peaks: The Return proceeds to dismantle everything that has gone before—all three seasons of it. As foolish as it is to spin theories about any David Lynch film, I’m going to go out on that limb and insist that there was no time travel, no multiple dimensions or alternate realities. What we’ve seen so far, over 48 episodes and more than 25 years, has been the dream of a man named Richard, a man who lives a long way from the misty, haunted forests of northeastern Washington state."

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/television/2017/09/twin_peaks_the_return_s_finale_reviewed.html

Twin Peaks as we know it essentially ends with the sex scene. The final call of "Laura" and Carrie's scream is the only thing which doesn't really add up in this scenario (and which might be the gateway to a possible season 4).
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookyDollhouse » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:38 am

vicksvapor77 wrote:
SpookyDollhouse wrote:Nothing was wiped from existence. All these realities exist alongside eachother. Remember when Cooper said goodbye to everybody, and wished to see them all again someday? That's because he hoped to get everything in its proper place and be in that reality with Laura alive and Judy gone. The reality where Laura dies and Judy inhabits Sarah still exists. The reality where Laura never existed and Sarah was never inhabited by Judy still exists. It's not linear.

Everything that happened happened for a reason, had meaning, had weight, and was/IS a part of the experience. If "hey, Cooper is still trying to make things go completely his way and in doing so, whoops he's stuck in this loop he has to make right" somehow means "nothing meant anything" because he didn't do it right ONCE because the gravity of the situation is bigger than we thought, then that's on you buddy.


So you're saying Cooper hoped that the reality where we last saw everyone would somehow remain "stable" despite Laura being back from the dead? All their lives and relationships? I get the intention, I just don't get how anyone as smart as Cooper thought it would be that easy.


That's what I'm getting at yes. And here's the thing; Cooper is smart, but there's no way he knows the ins-and-outs of how everything with time works and trying to change it. Honestly it's trial and error; he thinks he has it down but he doesn't and that's expected with the nature of what he's dealing with, things beyond human grasp. Jeffries already made a similar attempt and he lost himself completely in the process.

Regardless, you're saying that didn't happen and that universe exists as it did, with Laura still dead and everything is status quo, with the only difference being Cooper and Diane are now out of it indefinitely?


No, they still exist in it. Cooper still goes to Twin Peaks, and he still solves the murder, and he still ends up in the red room, and still takes the path that he does, etc. It's infinity. Lynch/Frost chose to end it outside here showing how difficult his undertaking is, and despite the goodness in his heart, not letting go and trying to shape time in his way may not work out if ever. It's not completely bleak because we know Twin Peaks is still out there and Laura had closure in her death (with Cooper by her side as a guardian angel figure). The possibility he can shape that world to be perfect is there, but can he do it? To end there instead of showing Twin Peaks/Laura at peace afterwards drove the point home. That's what I took from it.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookyDollhouse » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:40 am

The Gazebo wrote:This is the reading which makes the most sense to me:

"The remaining hour and a half of Twin Peaks: The Return proceeds to dismantle everything that has gone before—all three seasons of it. As foolish as it is to spin theories about any David Lynch film, I’m going to go out on that limb and insist that there was no time travel, no multiple dimensions or alternate realities. What we’ve seen so far, over 48 episodes and more than 25 years, has been the dream of a man named Richard, a man who lives a long way from the misty, haunted forests of northeastern Washington state."

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/television/2017/09/twin_peaks_the_return_s_finale_reviewed.html

Twin Peaks as we know it essentially ends with the sex scene. The final call of "Laura" and Carrie's scream is the only thing which doesn't really add up in this scenario (and which might be the gateway to a possible season 4).


Although in more Mulholland Drive/Inland Empire/Lost Highway territory, this is a highly plausible reading imo. Not one of "look, this is it 100%" finality though.

EDIT, good addition to my other post, I'd been thinkin about this as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comm ... d_for_all/
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:54 am

Another great summation I like here:

No matter how head-scratching all of these events seemed, Lynch’s final image was incredibly clear: Laura Palmer’s fate is forever doomed and Cooper will never stop trying to save her, no matter what timeline or plane of existence he’s forced to wander through. Laura’s shriek was the same one viewers heard in Part 2 (Cooper couldn’t bring her back from the Red Room) and in Part 17 after she disappeared from Cooper’s hand in the past, and by ending the series on it Lynch suggests her fate is sealed no matter what. Laura Palmer is destined for tragedy; she’ll never stop shrieking.

The last moment was a heart-shattering reminder that Laura may never be able to be saved, and yet in some ways it was also optimistic; evil pervades, but good never gives up. Laura’s fate can’t be reversed in the Red Room, or in the past, or in another dimension/timeline, but that doesn’t mean Cooper won’t stop trying and fighting for her. The finale followed the FBI agent on two failed missions to find Laura and save her, but Lynch wants viewers to find something admirable in Cooper’s continuous efforts to shatter Laura’s fate. Before Cooper went through to the past, Jeffries’ smoke made the shape of an infinity sign, and it’s clear by the last shot that Lynch’s “Twin Peaks” world is a continuous loop where good will never stop trying to defeat evil.

The last shot becomes a microcosm for what “Twin Peaks” has always really been about — evil is inevitable, good is steadfast — and in this way it’s the most fitting ending Lynch could’ve crafted. He didn’t give fans the reckoning they hoped for (just when it seemed good triumphed over evil in Part 17, the last hour made it clear it wasn’t that simple), but he did suggest that good will live to see another day to vanquish evil. For a “Twin Peaks” series finale, that’s a damn perfect ending.


http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/twin-peaks-finale-ending-explained-david-lynch-part-18-1201872823/
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:59 am

SpookyDollhouse wrote:EDIT, good addition to my other post, I'd been thinkin about this as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comm ... d_for_all/


That's a cool read. Perhaps when he asks that "carrie" realizes she doesn't know what year it is, she sees the construct of this false reality for what it is and that is enough to wake her up. I have to say, it's awfully literal and I don't really see Lynch sitting there mapping that one out, but it's a cool read.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:39 am

SpookyDollhouse wrote:No, they still exist in it. Cooper still goes to Twin Peaks, and he still solves the murder, and he still ends up in the red room, and still takes the path that he does, etc. It's infinity. Lynch/Frost chose to end it outside here showing how difficult his undertaking is, and despite the goodness in his heart, not letting go and trying to shape time in his way may not work out if ever. It's not completely bleak because we know Twin Peaks is still out there and Laura had closure in her death (with Cooper by her side as a guardian angel figure). The possibility he can shape that world to be perfect is there, but can he do it? To end there instead of showing Twin Peaks/Laura at peace afterwards drove the point home. That's what I took from it.


I meant they don't exist after that moment in time, when they disappear from the sheriff's station. Does that make sense? Unless they somehow can return to that reality/timeline after we last see Cooper and Carrie at the Palmer House.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby bob_wooler » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:56 am

:mrgreen:
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby dud » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:56 am

new observation: anyone else think that sarah/whatever is possessing her smashing laura's picture might have actually caused laura to disappear from dale's grip / scream in the woods? the way the sequence of events is presented to us is 1. dale intervenes and pulls her out of her original timeline 2. sarah screams, runs into her living room, smashes picture 3. laura screams/disappears.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:59 am

I believe that's what pretty much everyone thinks.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:00 pm

bob_wooler wrote::mrgreen:
Image
Image


Pylons/transmission towers never looked as menacing as they did in part 18. They looked less like those figures from the owl cave petroglyph to me that they did to stylised and massive wireframe owls.
Last edited by Novalis on Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby 28renton » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:01 pm

Pinky wrote:Cole says that Coop told him in 1989 that he's trying to 'kill two birds with one stone'. Presumably this is the real world Coop of S1 and 2, not a Lodge-accessed Cooper time travelling or anything. So how did Coop know to say it? Did he have the meeting with the Fireman in a lodge vision/dream at the time?


I started watching FWWM again recently and there's a scene with Coop and Albert where Coop is describing who the next victim will be: troubled girl, involved in drugs, blonde. Albert responds in classic Albert style, "Well that narrows it down to half the teenage girls in the US" or something along those lines.

I can't remember specifically, but I believe Coop said he got these descriptions from a dream/vision. So we know Coop's red room dream when he was already in Twin Peaks wasn't the first time he experienced such phenomenon.

Presumably "kill two birds with one stone" also came to him in a dream/vision prior to his arrival in Twin Peaks, and his understanding of it only became clearer as the years went by.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby bob_wooler » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:14 pm

Novalis wrote:
bob_wooler wrote::mrgreen:


Pylons/transmission towers never looked as menacing as they did in part 18. They looked less like those figures from the owl cave petroglyph to me that they did to stylised and massive wireframe owls.

My thought was maybe Coop got out of his car and tried to sense something sent from the Fireman thru that transmission tower. If not, I have no clue what he tried to achieve there.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BHell » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:22 pm

Cipher wrote:I'm more inclined to think the Jumping Man is another visual shade of Judy, if those brief visual connections are to be given weight, than to remove all the other satisfying plot and thematic implications that Sarah is Judy.


There is definitely a connection between the Jumping Man and Judy (and by extension her host?). In that light, is it time for a reevaluation of that convenince store meeting in FWWM?

What do we know about the Jumping Man?
His most defining feature (visually) is undoubtedly his mask. Is he hiding behind it or is it a part of him? Usually, masquerade is insincerity - the sign of a lier, a trickster. Or simply an actor - a surrogate or delegate. (For Judy, maybe? Does he attend the meeting in her place?)
On the other hand, masks are used in different rites as a carthatic tool for their wearers. Wearing a mask and assuming another role allows one to live out one's deepest, most animalistic nature. (Mardi Gras, Carneval, Bacchides)

The "Grandson" copies him and visually enacts some kind of demasking (of the Jumping man?). In a manner that is, as has already been stated by many, not dissimilar to Sarah revealing her possession. The Grandson reveals a monkey. And that monkey calls out to Judy. So, what are we to make of this?

Then, in season 3, his mask blends into Sarah's face. And Sarah's face (or Sarah herself) becomes a mask for something else. There has to be some symbolism here.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:34 pm

i see a lot of people saying that everything that came before 17 is completely undone by 17 and 18 and could have just as well been left in the garbage dumpster.. i strongly disagree with this.. in fact i just rewatched Parts 1/2 and i think the finale has made the storylines more poignant and going forward i'm sure we all will notice loads of things that we couldn't know had meaning (or what meaning they really had) in the episodes relating to the finale.

"Hawk... Something is missing and it has to do with Special Agent Dale Cooper"

yeah, you can say that again.. Laura is certainly missing and it sure as hell has to do with Special Agent Dale Cooper.

This leads him to find three pages of Laura's secret diary.. but take note of the fact that we are alerted to that "THERE'S STILL ONE PAGE MISSING" (Carrie Page that is?). the diary pages was then not at all a reveal but a clue.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookyDollhouse » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:39 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:
SpookyDollhouse wrote:No, they still exist in it. Cooper still goes to Twin Peaks, and he still solves the murder, and he still ends up in the red room, and still takes the path that he does, etc. It's infinity. Lynch/Frost chose to end it outside here showing how difficult his undertaking is, and despite the goodness in his heart, not letting go and trying to shape time in his way may not work out if ever. It's not completely bleak because we know Twin Peaks is still out there and Laura had closure in her death (with Cooper by her side as a guardian angel figure). The possibility he can shape that world to be perfect is there, but can he do it? To end there instead of showing Twin Peaks/Laura at peace afterwards drove the point home. That's what I took from it.


I meant they don't exist after that moment in time, when they disappear from the sheriff's station. Does that make sense? Unless they somehow can return to that reality/timeline after we last see Cooper and Carrie at the Palmer House.


They sure can, at least I believe so.

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