Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Andrea
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Andrea » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:49 pm

so many possibilities... the idea above that all the series 1-3 could be just a dream in "a Richard" 's head would be such an old (and terrible) trick... it would work though.. (Until Carrie/Laura screams... could this be her dream instead? (dream within a dream)??)
(and were Audrie's scenes just another example of a such a dream by another dreamer)
Such "dream theories" would remove any need to clarify or conclude any subplot or mythology elements, and would provide a definitive "end" to TP.

But I somehow refuse to accept that Lynch/Frost go completely "meta" (and rehash the same M Drive idea), rewriting all season 1-3 facts as someone's dream.

If instead we want to believe most of "Twin Peaks" was "real", we could see everything up to ep 17 being such, with Cooper's face superimposed to mean this reality would be soon wiped out by cooper's retroactively saving Laura from her death, and thus unmaking most of season 1-3...
It could be that the impending "unmaking" of said reality would make it "dreamy"... This could explain why Cole, Cooper talk about "being in a dream", because this "timeline" will soon be discarded and survive as just a dream in their minds alone (is this the meaning of Jeffries telling "Cole will remember the unofficial version"??)

This would make for a classic "time travel" plot (with Pete not finding Laura's body in the rebooted timeline, etc) and as some pointed out, makes unnecessary closing many subplots, since we now now they'd ve been undone anyway.
But why then showing Dougie/Coop getting back in Vegas, if everything will soon be retconned?
Should we instead assume saving Laura just created a second separate/alternate timeline and both realities will exist (one with laura dead, one not)?
(BTTF 2 style)
In this case, the "being in a dream" reference would make less sense to me though.

In any case, in ep 18 we go further with the full alternate reality (not just alternate "timeline") of Richard & Linda, which complicates things to the n-th degree, forcing us to make additional guesses, e.g. maybe "Judy"/evil snatched Laura from Dale's hands and displaced her to an alt reality... and Fireman possibly giving hints to Cooper on how to try to rescue her or Coop's wish to "fix evil for good"...
All this speculation seems somehow contrived though, don't you agree?
If we accept everything as "fact" (as opposed to just dream) ep 18 would make up the basis for a great new season 4 where all these guesses could be verified...
Since this has never seemed the plan, having to accept this as the intended ending leaves me extremely puzzled, partly exhilarated, partly frustrated.

One thing's sure, if no followup will come, I'll be haunted by this finale for the rest of my days.. even more than the original ending (which was quite more "literal" and understandable, in retrospect) and as some suggest, this might be David's wish (such an ending would seem to me so much more David's than Mark's)

final point: as things goes, be it all dream or a retconned timeline or an alternate timeline... I currently fail to see how Mark's next book could be really of interest if it concentrates on covering the 25th yrs gap of a no-more existing peaks ... ?? yep, I know all this is just fiction, but being provided more details of a dream or similar is not going to be worth the ride for me
(that sad, I'm still looking forward to it with a naive hope of getting some clues on the S3 ending instead)

thanks to anyone who'll be patient enough to follow through all my ramblings... forgive me, I must be suffering some weird kind of PTSD ;)
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Hercousin
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Hercousin » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:57 pm

I believe everything still stands. Laura's original situation and suffering and murder happened. Cooper tries to change this, undo it in a misplaced heroic deed and tears a hole in time and space. A valve from the Lodge (which one?) is shut off and the Palmer house goes dark. Leaving us where it all began. Whispering secrets in the Red room, in the woods.

I'm feeling depressed because although the mysterious end leaves me satisfied that none of the core mystery was changed or even explained, everything that came before is a harsh fluorescent light over my face in a mirror. Did you really think you could just go back, wrap yourself in a fair isle cardigan and everything would be ok again? That you'd be a kid again when that gum you like came back in style?

I don't think it's cruel. Not really. Cruel would be revisiting Twin Peaks and resolving all of the citizenry's immediate concerns with some pit stops for pie and intrigue. I've always been more about Laura's alienation, which is why we even went to Twin Peaks in the first place. And although I'm sad, I'm fucking glad that not even after a squad effort banishes BOB, no one is allowed to forget Laura's own de facto banishment. That scream, in the wilderness, the woods, or a suburban street, is what Twin Peaks is about.

The moments of folksy goodness were nice, trail markers on a tough hike, but the markers mean keep going.
claaa7
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:02 pm

I just rewatched both parts (couldn't resist) and the little move that Cooper makes right before he says "What year is this?" to Laura is not a Dougie move as some has described it (at least not only).. it's the almost exact move that Mister C makes before being thrown into the White Lodge from Jack Rabbit's Palace in ep. 17.. a little step forward and reaching out into the air as if to open a door... very intriguing discovery!!
Last edited by claaa7 on Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Saela
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Saela » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:04 pm

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Jacob
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jacob » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:07 pm

TheGum wrote:
Jacob wrote:Anyway, I really don't get the "Laura is the embodiment of nirvana" theory. I mean, come on : the girl was a prostitute and on coke even before she turned 18. Don't get me wrong, I know she was a victim. But I really can't see how we can make her an icon of detachment and nothingness. The girl has always been wild.
So I can't help myself to be really suspicious when we're talking of Laura like a "pure innocence" figure. Look at her when RichardCoop is coming to get her : there is a fucking dead body in her living room ! She's doomed to be surrounded by chaos. If she's the embodiment of Nirvana, well, no wonder Cooper and her are fucking lost god knows where. I've seen better Buddha.
I know I may be the only one here, but I still believe that Laura is maybe an incarnation of Judy. And maybe that's what she's telling Cooper during the final credits.


I don't believe Laura is the embodiment of nirvana, I believe she was created as an example, an extreme example of suffering to show how to reach nirvana. How to detach from that suffering. She has reached nirvana.

So why, when she was saved by Cooper, she was transfered to another timeline and not to "nirvana" ? Why she still exists ? And with a corpse in her living room ? And screaming like she's possessed ? The ending of FWWM looked like she may have reached nirvana. This ending, much more dark, brutal and real, less so imo :?
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BigEd
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:09 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
rugerblackhawk357 wrote: but 18 hours. 18 hours man. this could have been what it promised. why did lynch do this?


What do you think it promised? Because it did not promise an action-packed chase and battle of wits between the two Coopers over 18 hours.


Amen and thank God. I am so glad that it was some hokey green glove super hero who "defeated the villain" (probably a veiled joke on us and Hollywood) rather than Coop.
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nonemoreblack
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby nonemoreblack » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:11 pm

Cooperscoffeecup wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:I realise this is probably going to be a minority opinion, but did anyone else get the impression Diane was given a prominent role just because she's Laura Dern, and Lynch was looking for an excuse to work with her as much as possible? It doesn't sit well with me how the original characters were pretty much shoved to the side in favour of her.


I wondered why Diane had such a prominent role. It's the only character that really grated on me.


Same. Since we never got to know the real Diane it felt like another Annie situation where her importance seemed to come out of nowhere. The kiss when Naido turned into Diane felt cheap as well. There was never any indication they had that kind of relationship before.
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ThumbsUp
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:12 pm

TheGum wrote:
silvo wrote:
TheGum wrote:The tag line was "it is happening again" and that is very clear here.

There are several ways you can interpret the series as a whole as well as the ending. Here's one that I'm really leaning towards-

Given the numerous references to Buddhist/Tibetan beliefs in the first 2 seasons, I think that absolutely factors in here, either literally or figuratively. Buddhism is essentially all about learning to transcend or become at peace with your pain and suffering (garmonbozia) and realize that life IS suffering. If you can't enlighten yourself and accept your suffering, you experience desires, which causes more suffering, and you repeat the cycle until you can accept your inevitable suffering and reach nirvana which is a state of complete acceptance of and as a result a liberation from suffering.
I believe that despite Cooper's fascination with Buddhism, he was very far from enlightenment. His obsession with attachments- to the town of twin peaks, to Caroline, to Annie, to the FBI, Audrey, and yes, to Laura, particularly this concept of "fixing her death." are all examples of this. Attachments are another cause of suffering- when you love someone, eventually they will cause you suffering, whether they hurt you in some way, or simply by dying, which will hurt you as well. Hell-- he was fascinated with the "plight of the Tibetan people" and wanted to help fix that somehow, a classic example of a massive problem that one person such as Cooper can't possibly fix and a cause of suffering for him. (Not to mention that he has no idea if the Buddhist residents of Tibet want or need help, this could just be a part of their natural suffering in their eyes) All of these attachments led to what we could call his repeated undoing. The owl cave sign turning into an infinity loop is a warning. Jeffries is showing him the path he will go on if he continues this road. I believe that Judy IS suffering, and that she was inside Sarah Palmer- who as a character is the embodiment of suffering. That's the blackness inside of her. I also believe that Laura, in fact actually reached enlightenment, hence the white light inside of her, but that enlightenment can't exist in Cooper's reality because he is not ready or capable of understanding it yet.

Proof of this is in the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism:
1. The existence of suffering.
2. The causes of suffering.
3. The cessation of the causes of suffering
4. The path that leads to the cessation of the causes of suffering

We are introduced to the universal suffering we will all eventually endure, death, immediately in the first couple minutes of the pilot. Laura has endured that suffering and as the show progresses we find that she has endured much more than just that.
As the show moves on we learn about BOB and eventually her father and his role. We see this first hand in FWWM. We see her personal struggles with desire and suffering throughout the original series. Additionally in FWWM we are shown more of her inner turmoil in the first person. Ultimately as the plot moves forward we are introduced to the ring, and another possibility for Laura. A future where she doesn't submit to BOB and a future where she is free not only from the pain he and Leland inflicts on her, but from all of the suffering in her life. She sees in the ring that it is possible to end her suffering. In the conclusion of FWWM she takes the ring, and leaves behind all of her pain, suffering, and attachments on earth to a higher level of enlightenment. We see her rise at the end of the film to this next level of being. And she shows it directly to Cooper at the beginning of The Return.

Unfortunately, Cooper is still at odds with his own suffering and has an intense desire to fix the suffering in the world. When she shows him the light behind her face, she is spirited away from his reality because he cannot accept her peace. He still is obsessed with the idea of "making things right" and helping her whether she wants it of not. His first failure is at the end of season 2 with Caroline, Annie, and Earle. He fails again in FWWM when he tries to persuade Laura not to take the ring. He follows the advice of Leland (who, clearly is not a great person to listen to) in The Return, with the entire season essentially being a long journey back to Twin Peaks, where he fixes the immediate problems, but then quickly returns to the lodge to retcon Laura's death. Jeffries WARNS him he is on an infinite path and he disregards him. He saves Laura, but Judy, or suffering in general wins out, because saving her does nothing to rid the world of suffering, so this reality ends and he finds himself back in the lodge. Here he has another opportunity to behave differently, even after seeing Leland and hearing his request yet again when he exits the Lodge to the waiting Diane. But even with endless possibilities in front of himself, he takes her 430 miles away, and tries again to fix things. This time ending up even further away from his original reality, those he knew, himself as a person- his behavior is not original Cooper, it is clearly some distillation of Cooper, Mr. C, and Dougie. He is good, but emotionless, impatient, and somewhat confused as to what exactly to do. He takes Carrie/Laura back to the place of her suffering and once again suffering wins. Because it ALWAYS will, because life is suffering.

We have been introduced first hand to the beginning of Agent Coopers journey though life and whatever there is after. And this will continue on and on until he accepts the reality of his own suffering and reaches nirvana. Whether this all "actually happened" or was a dream doesn't matter in a literal sense. In some way it all definitely happened. What is real? What is a dream? It's inconsequential as long as Cooper keeps missing the point. So should there be a season 4? There could be, but is it really necessary?


If this is the case, which would make a great sense, there are two things I don't undestand!
What it means Laura is the One!
What it means the golden orb Laura.

Till now these things they have been translated that Laura was sent from the White Lodge to stop evil. So, I can't find the connection of Laura reaching the nirvana with the golden orb. It seems more that Laura returns back to the White Lodge. Like a female Jesus took all the pain and suffering from the Twin Peaks world and sacrifices herself.


I think that is one of the beautiful things about this interpretation. We see the birth of an extreme example of suffering in part 8, BOB. I believe that Laura is sent to earth, as a response to that, not as some ultimate weapon to combat evil, but as an example. She becomes an example of accepting the suffering in the world instead of fighting it, because it will always win. We should look to her, as she becomes the embodiment of nirvana. Laura is the one.

In fact this "pain/suffering/acceptance" interpretation actually dovetails quite nicely with one of my other favorite interpretations, the "you can't go home" meta interpretation which suggests the point of season 3 was to show you that season three shouldn't have happened in the first place. 17 had this perfectly posed solution for all these plot points. Gordon Cole's cavalier exposition of all of these big mysteries of the series in one way gives us what we want. We WANT to know the answers to the mythology, we WANT to know who Judy is, and we get it. And because you can't go home, due to our expectations of what Twin Peaks SHOULD be, Twin Peaks could never possibly be that one thing to all people. Just as Cooper should have left Laura dead, and he is now doomed to repeat the same grisly discovering of his and her suffering in one way or another, we maybe should have left TP alone if we didn't want to see explanations of things that didn't meet our expectations. But the beauty of all of this is that rather than give us a concrete, matter of fact ending, which would have resulted in suffering for all of us- some of us would have hated it, or we might be sad and hurting for the final fate of characters we care about, Frost & Lynch in fact, have given us a massive gift! We can look at this over an over, change our interpretations, argue about it for years to come precisely because it isn't spelled out for us. 17 is them giving us and therefore showing us exactly why we wouldn't appreciate a concrete ending for our characters, 18 is gifting us an ending worthy of the series and worthy of our emotional investment as fans.


Wholeheartedly agree!
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windh
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby windh » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:12 pm

WhiteLodge90 wrote:
Then the final... Seriously?!?! I feel like i just got dumped by the love of my life. If this was all a dream meaning everything we've seen for the past three seasons or 27 years was fake I will have lost all hope...


Actually, it's television.


Sorry. Had to.
/windh
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:16 pm

nonemoreblack wrote:
Cooperscoffeecup wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:I realise this is probably going to be a minority opinion, but did anyone else get the impression Diane was given a prominent role just because she's Laura Dern, and Lynch was looking for an excuse to work with her as much as possible? It doesn't sit well with me how the original characters were pretty much shoved to the side in favour of her.


I wondered why Diane had such a prominent role. It's the only character that really grated on me.


Same. Since we never got to know the real Diane it felt like another Annie situation where her importance seemed to come out of nowhere. The kiss when Naido turned into Diane felt cheap as well. There was never any indication they had that kind of relationship before.


I thought that about her scenes in Part 18 too.

it really bugged me just before that kiss, Cole and team arrive, and Cooper doesn't even acknowledge Albert, let alone most of the cast from the sheriff station.
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Jacob
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jacob » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:17 pm

nonemoreblack wrote:
Cooperscoffeecup wrote:
nonemoreblack wrote:I realise this is probably going to be a minority opinion, but did anyone else get the impression Diane was given a prominent role just because she's Laura Dern, and Lynch was looking for an excuse to work with her as much as possible? It doesn't sit well with me how the original characters were pretty much shoved to the side in favour of her.


I wondered why Diane had such a prominent role. It's the only character that really grated on me.


Same. Since we never got to know the real Diane it felt like another Annie situation where her importance seemed to come out of nowhere. The kiss when Naido turned into Diane felt cheap as well. There was never any indication they had that kind of relationship before.


I disagree. Both have been stuck in their life for 25 years, both have been the victims of the same guy, and both have met each other in a surreal purple world. It's like there's only Diane who can understand what Coop has gone through, and there's only Coop who can understand what Diane has gone through. But I agree : the kiss was a bit much.
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent327 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:20 pm

BigEd wrote:Amen and thank God. I am so glad that it was some hokey green glove super hero who "defeated the villain" (probably a veiled joke on us and Hollywood) rather than Coop.


Bringing back classic Cooper one week before the finale, after a 16 hour frustrating wait, only to completely ignore him in the Finale, and let the green gloved superhero punch-kill Bob.

Then cheapen the whole original TP universe on a scale that made Sarah Palmer's cracked open demon head, cheap special effect scene, seem respectful by comparison.

No one, NO ONE, trolls an audience like Lynch.
Last edited by Agent327 on Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
thedougpa
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Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby thedougpa » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:20 pm

I'm starting to think David filmed an alternate version with Sarah answering the door and he has that tucked away for a fourth season. As well as a bunch of other loose ends/alternate takes of events. Come to think of it, didn't people on scene the night of the Palmer house shoot say they saw Sarah?
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:25 pm

thedougpa wrote:I'm starting to think David filmed an alternate version with Sarah answering the door and he has that tucked away for a fourth season. As well as a bunch of other loose ends/alternate takes of events. Come to think of it, didn't people on scene the night of the Palmer house shoot say they saw Sarah?


Pretty sure Sarah was the day shoot, not the night one.
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BigEd
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Re: Part 18 - What is your name? (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:36 pm

Agent327 wrote:
BigEd wrote:Amen and thank God. I am so glad that it was some hokey green glove super hero who "defeated the villain" (probably a veiled joke on us and Hollywood) rather than Coop.


Bringing back classic Cooper one week before the finale, after a 16 hour frustrating wait, only to completely ignore him in the Finale, and let the green gloved superhero punch-kill Bob.

Then cheapen the whole original TP universe on a scale that made Sarah Palmer's cracked open demon head, cheap special effect scene, seem respectful by comparison.

No one, NO ONE, trolls an audience like Lynch.


Those who wanted "super hero Coop" got it at Judy's diner. That was one of the most rewarding scenes of the entire movie. So much for "don't mess with Texas." :lol:

The only thing that scene left us wondering is if a deep fat fryer really is hot enough to set off bullets.
Last edited by BigEd on Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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