Part 16 - No knock, no doorbell (SPOILERS)

[-Mr. Jackpots-]

I don´t have a problem with tulpa visual effects, because they take place in some kind of "unreal" world + tulpas were just some copies, fakes. What I don´t like are effects used on murders in real world - Todd, Hastings...they look so unfinished/cheap. It surprised me, because it´s not that hard to make a murdered man to look like a murdered man with using just "old school" practical effects or with combination with CGI.

[douglasb]

Lynch - "We need this to happen. Can you guys do that?"

SFX guy at computer clicks mouse.

"Like this?"

"Beautiful."

"Y'know, that's just a built in effect that comes with the program. We could spend some time on it and let you see what we've done later."

"No, no - that's beautiful. Now on the next scene I need something different to happen."

"Like this?"

"Wonderful! Beautiful. You guys are the bee's knees. Boy, are we making progress today! Now, one more thing and then it's coffee time. Do you guys have anything up your sleeve for the third scene?"

SFX guys look at each other. One of them shrugs and chooses third effect option from the drop-down box.

"We can do this?"

"Dandy! I don't know how you boys do it! E-lec-tricity I bet! Now, where's that coffee?"

[David Locke]

Seriously guys, we can't discuss and debate the VFX in a TV show without resorting to ad hominems for anyone who doesn't "get" the brilliance of a particular effect?


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[claaa7]

Also, as long as we're on this subject I'd like to say I've always found Laura opening her face to be a very eerie, fascinating moment/effect. Not sure why it's been divisive. Sarah's similar bit wasn't quite as successful for me, though there's several things about that whole scene that I find questionable anyway.


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i'm right with you - Laura's scene worked wonderfully for me.. i especially appreciated how we the exact same shade of light reflect back on Cooper's face as it did on Laura (sitting in that same room) at the end of FWWM. i thought that was a really nice connecting moment which also let us know that Laura was still filled with the power of goodness. Sarah's scene totally fell flat for me, much worse for me than the face removal was the throat slashing and the subsequent wound on the trucker.

[David Locke]

Lynch - "We need this to happen. Can you guys do that?"

SFX guy at computer clicks mouse.

"Like this?"

"Beautiful."

"Y'know, that's just a built in effect that comes with the program. We could spend some time on it and let you see what we've done later."

"No, no - that's beautiful. Now on the next scene I need something different to happen."

"Like this?"

"Wonderful! Beautiful. You guys are the bee's knees. Boy, are we making progress today! Now, one more thing and then it's coffee time. Do you guys have anything up your sleeve for the third scene?"

SFX guys look at each other. One of them shrugs and chooses third effect option from the drop-down box.

"We can do this?"

"Dandy! I don't know how you boys do it! E-lec-tricity I bet! Now, where's that coffee?"

Lol, nice. But I do get the feeling that Lynch enjoys taking time to make all the effects in his work, practical or otherwise, of a piece with what he digs and thus, whether we agree about their quality, all the TR VFX have been some of the most painterly stuff he's done, like right out of a Lynch painting or art installation or something. It feels quite personal, then, I think.

But I still don't have a clue what he was going for with the Duncan Todd murder because besides looking shoddy it doesn't really resemble Lynch's past work, i.e. it's simply shoddy looking without that uncanny personal/hand-crafted feel that makes a lot of the other effects charming and effective.


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[David Locke]

Also, as long as we're on this subject I'd like to say I've always found Laura opening her face to be a very eerie, fascinating moment/effect. Not sure why it's been divisive. Sarah's similar bit wasn't quite as successful for me, though there's several things about that whole scene that I find questionable anyway.


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i'm right with you - Laura's scene worked wonderfully for me.. i especially appreciated how we the exact same shade of light reflect back on Cooper's face as it did on Laura (sitting in that same room) at the end of FWWM. i thought that was a really nice connecting moment which also let us know that Laura was still filled with the power of goodness. Sarah's scene totally fell flat for me, much worse for me than the face removal was the throat slashing and the subsequent wound on the trucker.

Yeah, those two scenes are very pivotal for better or worse, and I have to assume that the finale will close the book on some of the assumptions raised by them - at the least, provide clarification on what really is up with Sarah. I didn't like the thrust of that scene either, the culmination anyway, as it turns Sarah into basically a cold blooded murderer (despite the trucker dude certainly being disgusting and poisonous himself).

Anyway, I'll have to wait and see before casting full judgment... I actually initially read Sarah's faux-shocked reaction when the bar owner comes over to be genuine; I simply assumed that this evil in her was akin to BOB, a subconscious or possessing force that can strike while it's vessel is unaware. So I assumed that she really didn't know what happened and had just had a memory gap or something - don't think this reading is possible though considering her sinister words to the bar owner just moments later. Guess I was trying to figure out a way for Sarah not to be the evil force that scene suggests she's become. We need more on this in the finale, hopefully she won't get only a cursory acknowledgement.

But it does seem Laura is in a lot of trouble, don't know what else to get from the disconcerting way her scene in Part 2 ends. I hope she gets plenty of screen time in the finale and that the goodness you mention is restored to her being, just as it was at the end of FWWM. That ending still is the perfect conclusion to both Laura's story and maybe even TP as a whole I feel, I mean I didn't feel cheated out of anything prior to the Return announcement when that was the ending still; then again of course we needed this return to TP to pick back up Coopers story so that we wouldn't leave him cackling at the mirror. I just hope whatever closes TR is worthy enough of FWWM, and similarly humane about Laura and where she ends up. As long as we don't leave things with Sarah or especially Laura in a bad place.


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[The Gazebo]

You may think that the creepiness of this scene was "destroyed" by the relative simplicity of the effect. Other gumballs might thnk it looks "cheap" or "shitty." I happen to think this is one of the creepiest sequences in the history of television, much less Twin Peaks. To each his own.

Hey, if it worked for you, then brilliant For me it was more "Ok, this is getting really uncomforta.....oh....right, she removed her face and slit the guy's throat...hmmm, okay then."

[N. Needleman]

Seriously guys, we can't discuss and debate the VFX in a TV show without resorting to ad hominems for anyone who doesn't "get" the brilliance of a particular effect?

I'm not sure how much there is left to discuss and debate after the first two hours on 5/21 of "I don't like these FX!"/"I like them! Lynch intends for some of these FX to be janky and not others!" That's it: That's the whole conversation, unless you're expecting someone to show up and award points.

[claaa7]

Yeah, those two scenes are very pivotal for better or worse, and I have to assume that the finale will close the book on some of the assumptions raised by them - at the least, provide clarification on what really is up with Sarah. I didn't like the thrust of that scene either, the culmination anyway, as it turns Sarah into basically a cold blooded murderer (despite the trucker dude certainly being disgusting and poisonous himself).

Anyway, I'll have to wait and see before casting full judgment... I actually initially read Sarah's faux-shocked reaction when the bar owner comes over to be genuine; I simply assumed that this evil in her was akin to BOB, a subconscious or possessing force that can strike while it's vessel is unaware. So I assumed that she really didn't know what happened and had just had a memory gap or something - don't think this reading is possible though considering her sinister words to the bar owner just moments later. Guess I was trying to figure out a way for Sarah not to be the evil force that scene suggests she's become. We need more on this in the finale, hopefully she won't get only a cursory acknowledgement.

But it does seem Laura is in a lot of trouble, don't know what else to get from the disconcerting way her scene in Part 2 ends. I hope she gets plenty of screen time in the finale and that the goodness you mention is restored to her being, just as it was at the end of FWWM. That ending still is the perfect conclusion to both Laura's story and maybe even TP as a whole I feel, I mean I didn't feel cheated out of anything prior to the Return announcement when that was the ending still; then again of course we needed this return to TP to pick back up Coopers story so that we wouldn't leave him cackling at the mirror. I just hope whatever closes TR is worthy enough of FWWM, and similarly humane about Laura and where she ends up. As long as we don't leave things with Sarah or especially Laura in a bad place.


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i believe Laura, Sarah and Leland will be heavily featured in the final two episodes.. all this time, throughout the series, it has been built up towards two main threads - the return of Cooper and him facing his doppelganger and the return of Laura Palmer after she was "abducted" from the Red Room in episode 2. the credits photo, the "birth of Laura" scene in ep. 8, Cole's vision, Log Lady's speech of Laura being the one.

with Cooper back in Twin Peaks possibly early in episode 17 it is likely we will have two episodes almost entirely set in Twin Peaks.. and we are almost there now. i can't wait!

[David Locke]

Seriously guys, we can't discuss and debate the VFX in a TV show without resorting to ad hominems for anyone who doesn't "get" the brilliance of a particular effect?

I'm not sure how much there is left to discuss and debate after the first two hours on 5/21 of "I don't like these FX!"/"I like them! Lynch intends for some of these FX to be janky and not others!" That's it: That's the whole conversation, unless you're expecting someone to show up and award points.

lol wat. I see what you're saying but many posts in this thread itself invalidate your argument. Anyways, I don't see why it's so difficult to imagine any further discussion/debate about the VFX that isn't just "it sux" or "it rulez." If the acting, writing, sound design, direction, cinematography, themes, narrative, and the super important flashing plane windows can all be discussed (as I'm sure you'll grant), why would VFX be left out of the group? It's a divisive part of TR but this thread is hardly only comprised of the two aforementioned, simplistic lines of debate. Sounds almost like you have a vested interest against people discussing whatever element of the show they wish to. Should we close down, say, the Gender in TR thread because it's, like, objectively true that there's literally nothing more to say on the subject or


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[N. Needleman]

Sounds almost like you have a vested interest against people discussing whatever element of the show they wish to.

Actually I've just been waiting for the conversation about VFX to evolve from the bullet points of "I like it!"/"I don't!"/"I think it's intentional!"/"I thought this was a free country!!" for over three months. Since it hasn't done that and you're still out here claiming you're being thought policed, I'm just really disinterested in discussing it anymore - and also, I'm not sure what you're looking for.

Why don't you tell me exactly what you want us to discuss about the VFX. Short of preparing a thesis for you about why we are valid in enjoying them for what they are and satisfying your frustration - which no one owes you - I don't know what more you want that hasn't been covered at length.

[David Locke]

Sounds almost like you have a vested interest against people discussing whatever element of the show they wish to.

Actually I've just been waiting for the conversation about VFX to evolve from the bullet points of "I like it!"/"I don't!"/"I think it's intentional!"/"I thought this was a free country!!" for over three months. Since it hasn't done that and you're still out here claiming you're being thought policed, I'm just really disinterested in discussing it anymore - and also, I'm not sure what you're looking for.

Why don't you tell me exactly what you want us to discuss about the VFX. Short of preparing a thesis for you about why we are valid in enjoying them for what they are and satisfying your frustration - which no one owes you - I don't know what more you want that hasn't been covered at length.

I'm actually currently enrolled in the Thought Police Academy so don't worry, I support the profession.

I guess I read your frustration at the repetitive debate as being more of an active desire to shut down debate. I do agree it's not very wide-ranging compared to like cinematography or acting, but all I mean is that, for one thing, it isn't ONLY that love it/hate it dialectic going on. E.g. there's also comparisons to Lynch's or others' artwork, sometimes with pictures; or there's more nuanced discussion of how a certain effect visually/thematically fits or doesn't fit the scene it's in, like when someone talks about the meaning of the crazy shit behind Sarah's facedoor thing.

Maybe it's not likely to bring all that much debate besides the love/hate stuff, but it's hardly an impossibility that there will ever be more fruitful perspectives on it, so my stance is just: let it continue, as with any discussion, and if the same old arguments keep getting made that's fine as they're not the only arguments that have been and can be had on the subject. Whatever, I think we both get where the other is coming from - not a big deal to me.


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[N. Needleman]

Fair enough.

[SamGGD]

Come to really appreciate the Dougie arc.

Watching his breakfast scene with Sonny Jim where he spits out his coffee and smiles "Hi!"

Confused me for a bit, but it's all clearer now knowing Coop was in there behind this Dougie shell. Took him a while to fully escape, but Coop surfaced on brief occasions: "He's lying" to say helloooooo.

So I'm now interpreting that quite literally. You could argue the coffee DID wake up Coop. Just very briefly, and okay, not fully consciously. But it still jolted him. Almost a wink to the audience, Coop saying hi behind Dougie.

[TheGum]

While we're complaining...

I keep wondering why so many people keep referring to Richard's "electrocution"

I feel like it is SO much more than something that simple. His whole body is broken down into essentially vapor, and we see it happening from the legs and arms up. It has always struck me as a complete annihilation of his entire being. The visual strikes me as a cue to realize this isn't just something happening to his physical body, but his soul and existence as well.