Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

[whoisalhedges]

I get the impression that the new James is 'slower' than the old James. He seems more 'normal' around Freddie at work, but I imagine that that's because he's relaxed, and that at the Roadhouse he's in a more awkward social situation. I don't think he's maliciously antagonising someone, I think it's just echoes of his old personality through the lens of his new way of dealing with the world.

In many ways I think that James's 'slowness' is comparable with Andy's simpleness. And maybe that's how he is also a useful tool to the Fireman, who picks simple and uncomplicated souls, and moves those 'pawns' to where they need to be.

Potentially this is also the case with DougieCoop. Although MIKE is pretty much guiding Coop the Fireman gave Cooper guidance first (if the scene belongs at the beginning of the season).

Ok, let me propose one of those crazy hypotheses that never pan out...

Could Freddie be a figment of James' imagination and its really James who beat up those two guys at the Roadhouse in a fit of rage? That would mean we have seen the Roadhouse and then the sheriff station scenes through James' distorted worldview. I believe Hawk told Bobby to put Freddie in cell 8 while we can see James locked in cell 7. Perhaps cell 7 is empty in reality and James is the one in cell 8?

To be fair, the first time he is noticed Shelly also observes "James has always been cool..." That would be typical of someone seeing the world filtered through their own imagination.

In fact you could go one further, by suggesting that moment when he sees himself on stage at the Roadhouse was also in his imagination, receiving adoring looks from Renee.

Oof.

I posted this in the Theories & Speculation forum:

At the very least it looks like it's (whatever "it" is) affecting the whole Hurley family. James singing "Just You" at the Roadhouse, Renee crying - given her reaction toward him in Part 15, I don't think the "Just You" scene really happened, or at least not in the primary timeline. She didn't seem like she wanted to ditch her old man for James, like some kind of horrible Shelly/Leo sitch, they were palling around like a happily married couple. She was genuinely concerned after Freddy godpunched him to Deer Meadow. Besides, why would somebody with the star power to PACK the Roadhouse, have everyone singing along, need Shelly to convince her friends that he's always been cool? The stammering, insecure guy we saw in Part 15, that's the James most people in Twin Peaks know.

And our dear Nadine - she has her own silent drape runner shop, with her very own gold shit-digging shovel in the window.

Winning Norma's hand (with Nadine *happily* giving him leave to do so), making Renee weep with love and playing his song to throngs of admirers, supporting herself with Run Silent, Run Drapes - these are Ed's, James', Nadine's deepest desires. Everything's coming up Hurley!

Did Lynch and Frost actually give this family their heart's desires? Or are they trolling their characters? Sadly, I fear the latter is more likely.

Immediately after the opening of Part 15, I was full of so much joy for Norma & Ed. A couple days later, I find myself just hoping Ed is still alive; that he didn't do something terrible after playing with fire at his Gas Farm, and that the scenes at the beginning of Part 15 weren't his "Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge."

urp - "owl"

This totally fits with what you're discussing here.

One thing, though: The Fireman. Freddy got sucked up into a vortex & met him. The vortex, the fact that he calls himself "Fireman" - not something Jimmy's likely to come up with on his own. So, if Freddy is a figment of his imagination, then James must have had his own vortex experience.

In any case, the fact remains: strange things are afoot at the Circle K.

[sewhite2000]

I loved this episode! A couple notes about the Gersten/Steven and Audrey/Charlie scenes in part 15:

When Steven is rambling to Gersten, when he says "I'm a high school graduate" twice, that seems to be when Gersten gets a somewhat terrified look in her eyes. Could mean anything but it had me wondering... were Steven and Becky high-school sweethearts? If so, this could add fuel to the idea that he shot and killed Becky and therefore "graduated high school." I dunno, the way Gersten trembled and the look on her face when he spoke that particular line was worrisome.

Also, Audrey and Charlie... not to minimize what could turn out to be a very interesting scenario, but I can't shake the feeling that so much of the dialogue was inspired by Lynch's (and maybe Frost's) anger at Sherilyn Fenn for her awful Twitter antics during pre-production and filming. (I don't want to re-hash all the anti-Sherilyn stuff but some of it seemed so obvious to me during Part 15, I can't help but bring it up and see if anybody else caught this drift). Audrey's first line in the Return is that she's sick and tired of waiting by the phone. Remember all those angry tweets from Sherilyn throughout early production about how nobody had contacted her (or the "other women" in the cast) and signed them yet? Eh, maybe just a coincidence. But in Part 15, there was that whole bit where she's yelling at Charlie, something like, "Why can't you just do something for somebody else, to make somebody else happy? You're always whining, it's like dealing with a sick dog!"

It's not only that these lines reminded me of something Lynch himself may have been thinking/saying to Sherilyn, but also the placement of this particular scene in Part 15. It comes right after a series of very tender and sweet and terribly sad scenes showing the death of the Log Lady. And after handling that material so sensitively, BAM, we're back in Charlie's house and Audrey is pissing and moaning at him again. Now the editing has sometimes been unusual in several Parts but I can't shake the feeling it wasn't a complete accident. Bear in mind that during production, as Lynch was watching a dear old friend die before him, (and on camera because she felt so strongly about being included!), during that very period of time, Sherilyn was publicly going on and on about her situation with getting signed on, not getting what she wanted, and whatever else (scene count, salary, who even knows!).

Again, I don't want this to devolve into Sherilyn-bashing or reliving the pre-production/production drama around it, but I just can't help but feel like all of those real-life elements conspired in Audrey's story (or at least some of the dialogue she's been given). Am I alone in this? I know there had been people talking about the meta elements in Audrey's story this time but I guess Part 15 was when I really went, "Woah!"

Would anyone mind rehashing what exactly Fenn's awful Twitter antics were?

I'll admit I don't always follow Twitter that closely but all I really recall is her going to bat hard for the idea of a new season against Showtime, publishing a kid's book, some spiritual stuff, and maybe some slightly catty comments about the actress who played Donna. But it sounds like more interesting things happened?

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/twin-peaks ... ow-makers/

http://www.alternativenation.net/sheril ... eaks-2017/

[nonemoreblack]

Someone created a side-by-side comparison of Dougie crawling towards the outlet and Ruby crawling at the Roadhouse. Not sure if it's something to be looked into, but I thought it was cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJ__doruW4

I'm not really a fan of these videos. All someone has to do is line up a specific section from a similar scene that suits your argument and work backwards from there for a minute or two so when it DOES reach the end, people say 'wow'.

You could likely find a crawling scene from any other film or TV show and line it up and it would look like there was a correlation.

Generally speaking, I very much agree with you, but there are things here other than the crawling, including the scream and the flashing lights, which are pretty major things to happen in the same episode, lining up with what appears to be a pivotal event which we've all been anticipating. (Cooper regaining is identity or at least beginning that process in earnest.)

Earlier on in this comparison, Cooper finally gets the TV on and begins staring forward at the same time Ruby is placed on the floor and begins staring forward. Ruby begins her crawl just as Cooper is shocked by hearing the name "Gordon Cole".

There is precedent for people in the Roadhouse feeling something going on at the same time elsewhere (Maddy's murder).

It goes like this:

1. Cooper sits alone quietly at a table. Ruby sits alone quietly at a table.
2. Cooper first pushes the remote buttons. Ruby first appears.
3. Cooper then pushes the buttons successfully and turns on the television. Ruby is placed on the floor.
4. Cooper begins to stare forward (at the television). Ruby begins to stare forward at the band/crowd.
5. Cooper is shocked to hear the name "Gordon Cole". Ruby spontaneously begins to crawl.
6. Cooper begins to crawl. Now Ruby and Cooper are both crawling towards the viewer.
7. Cooper stops crawling and looks at the fork. Ruby stops crawling about the same time.
8. Cooper sticks the fork in the socket, lights flash and Janey-E lets out a bloodcurdling scream. Lights flash in Ruby's face and she lets out a bloodcurdling scream.

As someone else mentioned, Cooper is trying to get home to himself and apparently to Twin Peaks. Lynch loves The Wizard of Oz and has used it in his work in the past. In that film, ruby slippers take Dorothy home, out of her dream reality. Cooper even lost his shoes at the same time he lost his memories and identity.

As you can see, I really like this idea. If it's a coincidence, I'll take it! Great coincidence!

As an aside, it seems like Audrey could be waking up or otherwise coming to her senses in the same episode, though we'll have to wait and see the real meaning of her violent attack on Charlie.

I find the connection between those scenes very interesting as well. Even if you take away the syncing part of it, there are definite parallels. Since Ruby's scene came after Audrey/Charlie I saw it as a representation of Audrey waking up in a similar way to Cooper. I feel like he's got his physical body and needs his mind while Audrey has her mind and needs her body. Either that, or maybe Ruby's scream is like a culmination of all the distress we've witnessed at the Roadhouse. I couldn't stop thinking about the "It's happening again" moment where they all spontaneously get emotional after Maddie's death.

[Nighthawk]

Ok, let me propose one of those crazy hypotheses that never pan out...

Could Freddie be a figment of James' imagination and its really James who beat up those two guys at the Roadhouse in a fit of rage? That would mean we have seen the Roadhouse and then the sheriff station scenes through James' distorted worldview. I believe Hawk told Bobby to put Freddie in cell 8 while we can see James locked in cell 7. Perhaps cell 7 is empty in reality and James is the one in cell 8?

To be fair, the first time he is noticed Shelly also observes "James has always been cool..." That would be typical of someone seeing the world filtered through their own imagination.

In fact you could go one further, by suggesting that moment when he sees himself on stage at the Roadhouse was also in his imagination, receiving adoring looks from Renee.

Oof.

I posted this in the Theories & Speculation forum:

At the very least it looks like it's (whatever "it" is) affecting the whole Hurley family. James singing "Just You" at the Roadhouse, Renee crying - given her reaction toward him in Part 15, I don't think the "Just You" scene really happened, or at least not in the primary timeline. She didn't seem like she wanted to ditch her old man for James, like some kind of horrible Shelly/Leo sitch, they were palling around like a happily married couple. She was genuinely concerned after Freddy godpunched him to Deer Meadow. Besides, why would somebody with the star power to PACK the Roadhouse, have everyone singing along, need Shelly to convince her friends that he's always been cool? The stammering, insecure guy we saw in Part 15, that's the James most people in Twin Peaks know.

This totally fits with what you're discussing here.

One thing, though: The Fireman. Freddy got sucked up into a vortex & met him. The vortex, the fact that he calls himself "Fireman" - not something Jimmy's likely to come up with on his own. So, if Freddy is a figment of his imagination, then James must have had his own vortex experience.

In any case, the fact remains: strange things are afoot at the Circle K.

I thought James singing at the Roadhouse was a "too perfect to be true" moment as well. Renee was notably sitting alone at a table while clearly she is not lacking in friends/family so it's unlikely she would go to any night spot alone.

Freddie telling the Fireman story is one thing that is difficult to reconcile, but James was often shown sitting in the woods at night in the original seasons so perhaps he found and was sucked into the vortex in Twin Peaks? That one actually seems to lead to Fireman's palace.

[nonemoreblack]

Personally I see the James Hurley and Big Ed/Norma scenes as being exactly how they were presented. While there are a lot of awful things going on in Twin Peaks at the moment, several of the original characters are still providing light. I don't think there's enough time left for it to be more complicated than that. As far as the intentions of James, I see it as another example of someone being stuck in time. His accident seems to have stilted his social skills and maybe even caused him not to fully grow into an adult. Would explain why he's still playing the same song 25 years later.

[Manwith]

To be fair, the first time he is noticed Shelly also observes "James has always been cool..." That would be typical of someone seeing the world filtered through their own imagination.

In fact you could go one further, by suggesting that moment when he sees himself on stage at the Roadhouse was also in his imagination, receiving adoring looks from Renee.

Oof.

I posted this in the Theories & Speculation forum:

At the very least it looks like it's (whatever "it" is) affecting the whole Hurley family. James singing "Just You" at the Roadhouse, Renee crying - given her reaction toward him in Part 15, I don't think the "Just You" scene really happened, or at least not in the primary timeline. She didn't seem like she wanted to ditch her old man for James, like some kind of horrible Shelly/Leo sitch, they were palling around like a happily married couple. She was genuinely concerned after Freddy godpunched him to Deer Meadow. Besides, why would somebody with the star power to PACK the Roadhouse, have everyone singing along, need Shelly to convince her friends that he's always been cool? The stammering, insecure guy we saw in Part 15, that's the James most people in Twin Peaks know.

This totally fits with what you're discussing here.

One thing, though: The Fireman. Freddy got sucked up into a vortex & met him. The vortex, the fact that he calls himself "Fireman" - not something Jimmy's likely to come up with on his own. So, if Freddy is a figment of his imagination, then James must have had his own vortex experience.

In any case, the fact remains: strange things are afoot at the Circle K.

I thought James singing at the Roadhouse was a "too perfect to be true" moment as well. Renee was notably sitting alone at a table while clearly she is not lacking in friends/family so it's unlikely she would go to any night spot alone.

I'm pretty sure she wasn't alone. I think the camera is zoomed in so we don't see her dining companion. If I recall correctly we even see her lips moving as she is talking to someone offscreen.

[Mr. Reindeer]

I've been thinking a lot about the first idea of his subconscious traveling to the White Lodge while he is in a hospital bed after electrocuting himself. I'm starting to wonder if the "What is your name" title is going to come from a doctor, and Coop has to make a choice - live out the rest of his life that is ready made as Dougie Jones or return to the world as Dale Cooper and repair what he can with what's left of it. The trailer shot of him driving in the car goes against this idea, but it could take place after he makes this decision or it could just be Evil Coop posing as Good Coop.

I love the idea of having to make a choice between being Dale or Dougie -- I'd like to see the Doppel factor into this decision as well, though. In a way, these are the three possible lives any entitled first-world dweller has to choose from: a career-focused life where you feel like you're making some kind of difference in the world but make sacrifices in your personal life (Dale), a more menial job with a rewarding home life (Dougie), and an id-centric life of wish fulfillment (travel, sex, illegal acts) (Mr. C). In fact, there's something very appealing about the notion of Mr. C as id and the Dale of the original show as super ego. Dougie seems to fit Freud's thesis of ego in an odd way. Even though at first blush he seems to completely lack a sense of self, he clearly has Dale's core buried somewhere deep inside of him, and he might represent Cooper as his most undiluted self: the fulcrum in the middle of the scale on which the other two extremes lean.

Personally I see the James Hurley and Big Ed/Norma scenes as being exactly how they were presented. While there are a lot of awful things going on in Twin Peaks at the moment, several of the original characters are still providing light. I don't think there's enough time left for it to be more complicated than that. As far as the intentions of James, I see it as another example of someone being stuck in time. His accident seems to have stilted his social skills and maybe even caused him not to fully grow into an adult. Would explain why he's still playing the same song 25 years later.

Yeh, DKL has been doing absurdly upbeat wish-fulfillment endings since BV and W@H. I wouldn't read too much into it; it's part of his style.

[whoisalhedges]

Personally I see the James Hurley and Big Ed/Norma scenes as being exactly how they were presented. While there are a lot of awful things going on in Twin Peaks at the moment, several of the original characters are still providing light. I don't think there's enough time left for it to be more complicated than that. As far as the intentions of James, I see it as another example of someone being stuck in time. His accident seems to have stilted his social skills and maybe even caused him not to fully grow into an adult. Would explain why he's still playing the same song 25 years later.

Yeh, DKL has been doing absurdly upbeat wish-fulfillment endings since BV and W@H. I wouldn't read too much into it; it's part of his style.

It is.

So is the first half of Mulholland Dr.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Personally I see the James Hurley and Big Ed/Norma scenes as being exactly how they were presented. While there are a lot of awful things going on in Twin Peaks at the moment, several of the original characters are still providing light. I don't think there's enough time left for it to be more complicated than that. As far as the intentions of James, I see it as another example of someone being stuck in time. His accident seems to have stilted his social skills and maybe even caused him not to fully grow into an adult. Would explain why he's still playing the same song 25 years later.

Yeh, DKL has been doing absurdly upbeat wish-fulfillment endings since BV and W@H. I wouldn't read too much into it; it's part of his style.

It is.

So is the first half of Mulholland Dr.

Fair point. Also worth noting that he apparently intended that footage to be entirely straightforward/real when he shot it, only "finding" the latter portion of the story a year and a half later!

[Nighthawk]

I'm pretty sure she wasn't alone. I think the camera is zoomed in so we don't see her dining companion. If I recall correctly we even see her lips moving as she is talking to someone offscreen.

Yeah, that's true. I looked at the scene again and she is talking to someone before getting captivated by James' song.

[whoisalhedges]

Fair point. Also worth noting that he apparently intended that footage to be entirely straightforward/real when he shot it, only "finding" the latter portion of the story a year and a half later!

And that's one of the exciting things about what we're experiencing now. Although I doubt DKL finalized anything without (at least grudging) approval from MF, I'm sure what was filmed differs significantly from what was scripted. And those changes were often filmed on the fly. That's part of what makes it so unpredictable - we're used to a certain "type" of narrative (a type Mark Frost is very good at), but it's getting subverted right and left. Even when Lynch writes things himself, the final product often differs greatly from where he started off heading toward.

[Nighthawk]

Yeh, DKL has been doing absurdly upbeat wish-fulfillment endings since BV and W@H. I wouldn't read too much into it; it's part of his style.

Well, it's not that upbeat. James' fairy tale has now ended as he is involved in a potentially deadly altercation. Even if the scene is what it appears (Freddie doing the punching), then James is still in some trouble as he provoked the situation with his bizarre behavior.

[Mr. Reindeer]

Yeh, DKL has been doing absurdly upbeat wish-fulfillment endings since BV and W@H. I wouldn't read too much into it; it's part of his style.

Well, it's not that upbeat. James' fairy tale has now ended as he is involved in a potentially deadly altercation. Even if the scene is what it appears (Freddie doing the punching), then James is still in some trouble as he provoked the situation with his bizarre behavior.

I have to rewatch the scene again, but I don't think James can be charged with any crime. Sure, he's in jail as a suspect until the facts come out, but hitting on another man's wife isn't a crime, nor is standing by while your coworker punches people who threatened you. Of course, it all still might weigh on his conscience. I was thinking more about Ed & Norma when I mentioned happy endings.

[rocketsan22]

His accident seems to have stilted his social skills and maybe even caused him not to fully grow into an adult. Would explain why he's still playing the same song 25 years later.

Woah, woah, woah...

I still belt out "Only Wanna Be With You" by Hootie and the Blowfish with regularity.

What does that say about me?

[Saturn's child]

His accident seems to have stilted his social skills and maybe even caused him not to fully grow into an adult. Would explain why he's still playing the same song 25 years later.

Woah, woah, woah...

I still belt out "Only Wanna Be With You" by Hootie and the Blowfish with regularity.

What does that say about me?

What does it say about the Rolling Stones??