Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: Brad D, Annie, Jonah, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne

User avatar
Novalis
RR Diner Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Novalis »

Ragnell wrote: 2) The Bosomy Woman -- I was watching the Mild Fuzz TV review of this ep and they were speculating that she and the Jumping Man were gatekeepers. I like this idea, and that would explain why she's played by a man. She's a liminal spirit, a spirit that exists to help cross boundaries, to help cross worlds and crossing gender is a touch that adds to that. It puts her on the threshold of a binary from the second you see her. It's also worth noting... Mr. C talks forwards, Jeffries talks forwards. She uses backwards speak, and I believe is the only person in the sequence to do so. She exists between genders, between worlds, and between those doors that line this space. That scene change at the end of the credits, long after the Roadhouse song ends, even implies she exists between episodes/parts.
Yes, brilliant. All this was brewing in my mind also. The question of who holds the key is the question of who can grant access across the limen, the 'threshold' (an unusually archaic term itself used by Charlie of his front door). The holder of the key is always important in MD too, in several ways ranging from the contract killer's 'done' code for Diane Selwyn, to Cookie the all-knowing downtown hotel manager (who also compères the Rebekah del Rio act that grants the blue box at the club Silencio). In all these cases the crossing of a Rubicon is at stake.

Keyholders are like psychopomps, ushering between levels and at home in none of them. As noted, trans-vestment goes together with this ritual function. The masking and guising traditions of Old Europe, aimed at 'crossing the borderlines' in the intercalary days and the spokes of the year often feature a figure wearing the clothes of a different gender.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
kylie
New Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:12 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by kylie »

whoisalhedges wrote:Is anyone else getting more and more worried about Big Ed as the hours pass?

If Ed Hurley were to have dictated his deepest fantasy, his heart's truest desire; it would not have played out any differently. He loves Nadine. It's a paternalistic love, not in the least romantic, but he never wanted to break her heart - as evidenced by him returning to her after S2, after "committing" to moving on and starting a life with Norma. So, of course he would want not only his freedom, but Nadine's blessing, he'd want Nadine to be happy for him and Norma.

Speaking of Norma, it's not her making a decision between two men. It's her unceremoniously dumping Asshole Walter, and not only that, but selling off her franchises - to spend all her time with Ed!

His eyes are closed....

I'm really worried that something happened that night. Maybe he put a "cyanide pill" in his Cup Noodle.

I don't want this. Hell, there's not much I want more in the world of Twin Peaks than for Norma and Big Ed to live happily ever after. But what made my heart flutter with joy on Sunday night is kinda scaring the hell out of me two days later.
Yes, I'm worried about Ed too. I'm not convinced the Ed/Norma reunion scene -- or even the Ed/Nadine scene -- happened in the "real world." As much as I want Ed and Norma together, I think that was a dream. The cars driving on the wrong side of the road as Nadine walks towards Ed's Gas Farm support this -- it's not real. It was also interesting that when Walter walked away from the booth and past Ed, Ed revealed a slight grin, like he knew it was Walter walking out -- but Ed's eyes were closed, so how could he know?

I really hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid Ed actually hurt himself or worse after the scene from the previous episode that ended with his altered reflection.
User avatar
nonemoreblack
RR Diner Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:44 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by nonemoreblack »

Someone created a side-by-side comparison of Dougie crawling towards the outlet and Ruby crawling at the Roadhouse. Not sure if it's something to be looked into, but I thought it was cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJ__doruW4
User avatar
Novalis
RR Diner Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Novalis »

kylie wrote:
whoisalhedges wrote:Is anyone else getting more and more worried about Big Ed as the hours pass?

If Ed Hurley were to have dictated his deepest fantasy, his heart's truest desire; it would not have played out any differently. He loves Nadine. It's a paternalistic love, not in the least romantic, but he never wanted to break her heart - as evidenced by him returning to her after S2, after "committing" to moving on and starting a life with Norma. So, of course he would want not only his freedom, but Nadine's blessing, he'd want Nadine to be happy for him and Norma.

Speaking of Norma, it's not her making a decision between two men. It's her unceremoniously dumping Asshole Walter, and not only that, but selling off her franchises - to spend all her time with Ed!

His eyes are closed....

I'm really worried that something happened that night. Maybe he put a "cyanide pill" in his Cup Noodle.

I don't want this. Hell, there's not much I want more in the world of Twin Peaks than for Norma and Big Ed to live happily ever after. But what made my heart flutter with joy on Sunday night is kinda scaring the hell out of me two days later.
Yes, I'm worried about Ed too. I'm not convinced the Ed/Norma reunion scene -- or even the Ed/Nadine scene -- happened in the "real world." As much as I want Ed and Norma together, I think that was a dream. The cars driving on the wrong side of the road as Nadine walks towards Ed's Gas Farm support this -- it's not real. It was also interesting that when Walter walked away from the booth and past Ed, Ed revealed a slight grin, like he knew it was Walter walking out -- but Ed's eyes were closed, so how could he know?

I really hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid Ed actually hurt himself or worse after the scene from the previous episode that ended with his altered reflection.
It's an interesting road to go down. I also entertained the thought that the place where Ed is standing outside his Gas Farm while Nadine tells him about her change of heart is pretty much the same location as the glitched reflection in the window would be if the line of sight were extended outside.

Not saying it is, not saying it isn't -- just food for thought.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
thedougpa
RR Diner Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:35 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by thedougpa »

Surprised not too many people mentioned that James likes to "act slow" sometimes. Seems to me his demeanor when talking to Freddie alone is wildly different than his playing innocent to goad Chuck into fighting him. Exaggerating a stutter and social confusion. Just an interesting character point for James.
User avatar
ThumbsUp
RR Diner Member
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:05 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by ThumbsUp »

Can someone please help me take stock of the various characters' ambiguous motivations?

EvilCoop: Doesn't want to get sucked into the Black Lodge; wants to find the Mother. Then what, take over the world or something?

Jeffries: Knows that Coop has a doppelganger (as suggested in FWWM) and he wants EvilCoop dead?

MIKE/the Black Lodge: Helping Coop, why?

Fireman/the White Lodge: Wants to help the good guys; wants to see the Laura vs. BOB battle come to an end?
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Lodge Member
Posts: 3680
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Wonder why Mark chose this particular moment for his cameo. I'd given up hopes of seeing ole Cyril when they didn't use him for the Las Vegas newscast.
Mr. Jackpots
RR Diner Member
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:17 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Jackpots »

Ragnell wrote:
alreadygoneplaces wrote:
MysteryMan14 wrote:When I'd watched an ep. 15 first time I thought that Philip's voice was coming from the bell which was in episodes 3 and 8. Then later I read that it was a teapot Lol
Yeah, I was surprised to come here and see so many interpret Jeffries as being a teapot or even being the bell. I took it to mean he was communicating through the bell-like apparatus, from wherever/whenever/if ever he is. Or at least, I certainly don't think Jeffries was at the convenience store/motel location- he was just able to be contacted from there. The Jeffries bell shots had a totally different decor and architecture, more reminiscent of the Naido/American Girl exit rooms in that strange box in the void. Which would fit with Cooper saying to whoever he thought was Jeffries in Ep. 2 "and you're still nowhere" (nonexistent! / Flying Dutchman).
I thought he was in the thing, reduced to his spiritual essence and taking a good soul-steam.

Well, first I thought "EX-TER-MIN-ATE" and then I thought the soul-steam thing.
I identify the bell/teapot as a box. I find it reminiscent of the puzzle box from Season 2 and the Blue box from mullholland dr. It's aura of mysteriousness and lack of markings.

And it reminded me of the Daleks also.
vicksvapor77
Great Northern Member
Posts: 584
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:51 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by vicksvapor77 »

thedougpa wrote:Surprised not too many people mentioned that James likes to "act slow" sometimes. Seems to me his demeanor when talking to Freddie alone is wildly different than his playing innocent to goad Chuck into fighting him. Exaggerating a stutter and social confusion. Just an interesting character point for James.
Got a bit lost in what you said but this is my take on the James scene:

I think James was being completely genuine and was just trying to say hi to Renee. I think his accident resulted in some sort of his speech impediment and social anxiety (the stuttering), this is why Shelly referred to as him being "quiet now." James has always been a good guy and "cool." Lynch has made it explicitly clear in the new season that's how he feels about the character and the actor himself has said as much about the character in recent interviews.

Posters who read ill intentions into James and Renee at the Roadhouse are just way off the mark IMO. He seems to have a grade school like crush on Renee and isn't inherently trying to "make a move" but is simply more comfortable admiring her from afar (like in part 2, where Hannah says he's "staring at [her] again"). When James finally feels comfortable enough to go up and talk to Renee in part 15, he's just trying to be nice and say hi. This is in complete contrast to James of the first series, who had women flocking to him and was a borderline womanizer, and I think the shift is 100% intentional on Lynch and James Marshall's part.
Last edited by vicksvapor77 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Saturn's child
RR Diner Member
Posts: 403
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:38 pm
Location: Blue Mountains

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Saturn's child »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Wonder why Mark chose this particular moment for his cameo. I'd given up hopes of seeing ole Cyril when they didn't use him for the Las Vegas newscast.
It's like in Rocky III, when Rocky has to go back to Apollo Creed's dodgy old training ground ('Tough Gym'); Cyril Pons is stripped of the trappings of fame, now reporting news on its primal level at the local trailer park.
rsgmail
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by rsgmail »

nonemoreblack wrote:Someone created a side-by-side comparison of Dougie crawling towards the outlet and Ruby crawling at the Roadhouse. Not sure if it's something to be looked into, but I thought it was cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJ__doruW4
Cool. That song borrows two lines from Dylan's Subterranean Homesick Blues (Maggie, fleet foot, black soot). My heart smiles at a Lynch-Dylan connection!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
User avatar
Jasper
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Jasper »

nonemoreblack wrote:Someone created a side-by-side comparison of Dougie crawling towards the outlet and Ruby crawling at the Roadhouse. Not sure if it's something to be looked into, but I thought it was cool.
Fantastic. I already found the idea of the link between these two scenes to be very convincing, and now this side-by-side comparison really seals the deal. It feels like these things were happening at the exact same time in the "real" world, and it's interesting to remember the emotional connections relating to the roadhouse in the original series. For instance, when Maddie is killed, multiple people in the Roadhouse sense something horrible is happening. Bobby cries, Donna and James cry, the room service waiter (Droolcup) says he's so sorry, and Cooper, Margaret, and Harry all look kind of shell-shocked.
Last edited by Jasper on Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Saturn's child
RR Diner Member
Posts: 403
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:38 pm
Location: Blue Mountains

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Saturn's child »

Novalis wrote:
kylie wrote:
whoisalhedges wrote:Is anyone else getting more and more worried about Big Ed as the hours pass?
[...]
His eyes are closed....
I'm really worried that something happened that night. Maybe he put a "cyanide pill" in his Cup Noodle.
[...]
[...]The cars driving on the wrong side of the road as Nadine walks towards Ed's Gas Farm support this -- it's not real. It was also interesting that when Walter walked away from the booth and past Ed, Ed revealed a slight grin, like he knew it was Walter walking out -- but Ed's eyes were closed, so how could he know?

I really hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid Ed actually hurt himself or worse after the scene from the previous episode that ended with his altered reflection.
It's an interesting road to go down. I also entertained the thought that the place where Ed is standing outside his Gas Farm while Nadine tells him about her change of heart is pretty much the same location as the glitched reflection in the window would be if the line of sight were extended outside.

Not saying it is, not saying it isn't -- just food for thought.
Hmm, some very interesting things to think about. Who is the dreamer? Cooper, Ed, Audrey, Sarah, Cole, Lynch, Us...

Just randomly riffing on the Ed idea, Nadine could be his vision of the grave-digger, dimly perceived & projected upon by Ed's departing spirit, who then ushers Ed into the RR afterlife (Ed's version of the waiting room).

OK, so that's a pretty loose riff, but I enjoy jamming.
User avatar
Jasper
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Jasper »

Rhiannon wrote:I wonder whether Janey E is screaming because Cooper vanishes right before her eyes when he sticks the fork into the socket, possibly returning to the Lodge through the socket?
I think she's just screaming because her husband is being severely electrocuted.

My guess is that if Cooper travels back to the unearthly realms, it won't be bodily. I'm guessing that his physical body stays in Vegas, but it's just a wild guess. He doesn't have to disappear to travel to the otherworldly realms of lodges and convenience stores and grimy motels. He could do so while unconscious, in a coma or what have you.

It seems like too many plot lines are converging in Vegas for Cooper to simply disappear, but it could happen, and it could work.
Esselgee wrote:Is there any chance that Showtime will start selling a Phillip Jeffries standee from the new season now? Or at least a Funko Pop figure?
Call me crazy, but how about they sell an actual kettle in that shape?

Is that giant, steaming Cup o' Noodles still in Times Square? They should replace it with a giant steaming Jeffries kettle thing. Actually, Times Square should just be replaced altogether, but that's a significantly more ambitious project. :lol: (Nice place to plant a forest, imo.)
Dom834 wrote:still saying during a conversation they had on set he opened the door to doing more if it was well received.
I'd like to see this if you can remember where it was. Can you point me in the right direction? I've got a little collection of quotes relating to the possibility of another season of Twin Peaks, and it would make a nice addition.
LateReg
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1435
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

TPDpz wrote:Am I the only one thinking that Billy might be some sort of a reference to John Justice Wheeler as he was portrayed by Billy Zane? Billy could be a reference to the "real world" that Audrey is currently not part of. If she cannot leave the house, it could mean that she is either dead or in coma. Living a life inside her head and cannot leave until is at peace with herself. This season is so full of references of everything being a dream. Will be interesting to see will she get out.
That's fascinating to me, because as I stated in another thread I have this outlandish theory (that I don't believe to be true) that all of this is imagined by a fan who has been looking for answers for 25 years! It's based on how the whole thing feels like a dream, how it addresses the idea of dreamers and thoughtforms coming to life, how some of the dialogue is bizarrely short on explanation while other dialogue goes deep into lore, how Big Ed practically seems to close his eyes and will Norma into his arms, and how most recently Doppelcoop so matter of factly asked who Judy is...asking one of the major questions on every fan's mind. Just a fun thought I had, but your Billy idea fits right into the blurring of reality and fiction that constitutes my fleeting idea.
Post Reply