Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

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Another owl
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Another owl »

N. Needleman wrote:
Another owl wrote:Let's face it. This is going bad.
K
Don't cry. :wink:
Normonaut wrote:
Another owl wrote:Have to say: it's so funny seem some of you "celebrating" an (supposedly) return of Cooper....on the 16th episode!!! On a total of 18.. :roll:

Let's face it. This is going bad. The Big Ed and Norma scene was like they rushed things in. Like "ok, we are obligated to show some old carachters so people don't complain. Just put them togheter in a total of 3 minutes and get over with it". But maybe he forgot that some fans NEVER complain. NEVER. Not even about yet another scene of Dougie eating a cake. "Wow! We are witnessing history". Really?
Some of you guys want this to be true so bad that it doesen't even matter that what we are witnessing, really, is a boy with a rubber glove that gave him superstrenght.
Lynch had all the money in the world to make Jeffries a tea kettle? Really? It's that ok for you? None of the new carcathers was well development (Beverly Paige? Beverly Paige's Husband? All the carachters in the Roadhouse? The list goes on and on).
Well, if some of you guys are enjoiyng it, that's fine. I resapect that. Really. And, hey, the show still have some good moments. Episode 8 was really awesone. But don't try so hard to put everithing Lynch does in the "genius work" category. The guy deserves some critics, after all. A lot of them, actually. This new TP it's in on the top of list, sadly.
You are kind of accusing us of forcing ourself to interpret something in a positive way, while you are interpreting something to fit your negative view.

It's very common in storytelling to have a super happy moment before things turn to shit. I knew when we saw that scene that this episode would be "dark". It's a classic move and happens time and time again. That's the purpose of this scene. To finish their story in a satisfying way. The build-up has been going on since 1990, so I don't think we can say it came out of nowhere. Just because you feel like it's fanservice, doesn't mean it actually is. Why WOULDN'T we see parts of the lives of some of the major players from S1 and 2? It was a perfect setup for what is to come. The darkness of this episode, and, potentially, the return of "light" to Twin Peaks.
A lot of people are complaining about the green glove dude, why are you making it seem like everyone is praising it?
Jeffries isn't a tea kettle, that's just you trying to make it sound worse than it is by degrading it. Basic argument technique. A lot of people who like the episode aren't happy with the Jeffries appearance either. Just like people would be divided if there was a recast. These are all opinions, and only one of them is yours.
You open with 3 paragraphs criticising us for liking this, then say you respect it IF we really are enjoying it?

What you're saying is basically "I don't like this, and I don't understand why you do. You are wrong, this is not good".
That's your opinion, please don't try to ridicule others for not sharing it. I genuinely love this season, and I'm more of a TP fan than a Lynch fan.
Hey, very good points here. And, yes, you are right about my "tea kettle" comment. But, hey, it looks a lot like one, doesen't it?

Well, I think that I was pretty clear about my statement represents nothing more than my opinion. In fact, this supposed to be a forum of opinions on the show, right? There's no rights or wrongs, really. But there opinions. Things that I think is right and things I think is wrong. Like everyone else. In that scenario, all I was saying is that some of you guys are trying real hard to sell the new TP like a "history been made". And, yes, that was what I was hoping for too. I was waiting 25 years and my expectations was beyond high. it's not (in my opinion, of course). And it is my opinion too that SOME are just praising everything like it was a crime or something to criticise. Just pointed for debate.
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Ashok
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Ashok »

Another owl wrote:Have to say: it's so funny seem some of you "celebrating" an (supposedly) return of Cooper....on the 16th episode!!! On a total of 18.. :roll:

Let's face it. This is going bad.
What makes The Return's stories "greater" or "lesser" than the Laura Palmer murder case? Nothing. Maybe the Dougie Jones subplot is one of my favorite stories from this universe.
"Whatever happened, happened." -Daniel Faraday
Mr. Jackpots
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Jackpots »

Jonah wrote:
dustoff wrote:
douglasb wrote:
t.
There's a lot of sparks of genius in this new series, but I think by the time we look back on it as a whole, it will be considered even weaker - in some respects - than Season 2 as an overall narrative. Then again, the finale could be so amazing that maybe not. Hard to tell. But there's been a lot of poor narrative choices made and a lot of weak characterisation.
This series is certainly not connecting with everyone, including long time fans. It will probably take about 10 years, and The Return will be recognized for the masterpiece that it is.
Another owl
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Another owl »

Deep Thought wrote:
Another owl wrote:Have to say: it's so funny seem some of you "celebrating" an (supposedly) return of Cooper....on the 16th episode!!! On a total of 18.. :roll: [snip] Lynch had all the money in the world to make Jeffries a tea kettle? Really? It's that ok for you? None of the new carcathers was well development (Beverly Paige? Beverly Paige's Husband? All the carachters in the Roadhouse? The list goes on and on).
Character development is one way to tell a story, but not the only way, e.g. Homer. As David Nevins says (at least with DL's blessing and maybe his words), “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks.” A very specific word, "odyssey," maybe look it up. It is exactly what we are getting, and I am in awe that Nevin's signed off on this and I feel lucky to be able to experience this happy capitalist "accident." I have always looked mostly to the socialist and communist systems for films like this, but seeing so many American productions now creeping towards niche audiences, it gives me hope we'll get more like this (without subtitles) in the future.
I understand what you are saying, but there 2 things that doesen't fit: 1- There's no Agent Coopr so far. And for sure not a Cooper on Twin Peaks. It's been 15 episodes, so, If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", well, they a little behid the schedule. :) 2 - If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", why fill the episodes with so many new carachters? I thought it is a bit frustraiting seem some carachters with potential (again, Beverly Paige) been so little explored.
Another owl
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Another owl »

Ashok wrote:
Another owl wrote:Have to say: it's so funny seem some of you "celebrating" an (supposedly) return of Cooper....on the 16th episode!!! On a total of 18.. :roll:

Let's face it. This is going bad.
What makes The Return's stories "greater" or "lesser" than the Laura Palmer murder case? Nothing. Maybe the Dougie Jones subplot is one of my favorite stories from this universe.
I could swear you've been ironic, but I respect if you don't. For real. BuT, for me, seeing someone eating cakes and pies, put a tie on his head and bumping his head on doors it'sjust not as good as finding out Laura Palmer misteries. In fact, the Laura carachter's development was really special on the original series, but I have to confess that I like the Lodge Mithology even more.
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Ashok
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Ashok »

Another owl wrote:I understand what you are saying, but there 2 things that doesen't fit: 1- There's no Agent Coopr so far. And for sure not a Cooper on Twin Peaks. It's been 15 episodes, so, If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", well, they a little behid the schedule. :) 2 - If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", why fill the episodes with so many new carachters? I thought it is a bit frustraiting seem some carachters with potential (again, Beverly Paige) been so little explored.
Agent Cooper has been in almost every single episode of The Return. Just because he was greatly damaged from living in the Red Room for 25 years and is no longer an active FBI agent doesn't make him any lesser of a character.
"Whatever happened, happened." -Daniel Faraday
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asselta
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by asselta »

LV FBI didn't do their job good!

DougieCoop eating cake scenes are pure gold!
Another owl
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Another owl »

Ashok wrote:
Another owl wrote:I understand what you are saying, but there 2 things that doesen't fit: 1- There's no Agent Coopr so far. And for sure not a Cooper on Twin Peaks. It's been 15 episodes, so, If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", well, they a little behid the schedule. :) 2 - If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", why fill the episodes with so many new carachters? I thought it is a bit frustraiting seem some carachters with potential (again, Beverly Paige) been so little explored.
Agent Cooper has been in almost every single episode of The Return. Just because he was greatly damaged from living in the Red Room for 25 years and is no longer an active FBI agent doesn't make him any lesser of a character.
Again, I could swear you're been ironic. Because it's not even close of been the same character.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Jackpots »

lotjx2 wrote: I get from all the craziness of the motel is someone else has been reaching out to evil Coop. Who? Its not Cole or Major Briggs or even Jefferies. So, who called him to tell him he won't get away with it? It didn't sound like a Judy on the phone. Richard and Cooper together will not be fun for some random person. .
It could very well be The Arm reaching out to Mr.C .
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Deep Thought
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Deep Thought »

Jonah wrote:there's been a lot of poor narrative choices made and a lot of weak characterisation.
Weak characterizations I agree with, and I love it. Poor narrative choices? I'll be pondering that for a while, but I wouldn't ponder it at all if I thought they were poor. These are two undisputed (if you are on this forum anyway) masters at work, so I give them the benefit of the doubt. As Terry Doolittle could tell you: "the key is the key." As Dale Cooper could tell you, "break the code, solve the crime." If you do not "enjoy" these pursuits, no harm no foul. Leave it to the professional nerds. :D
There's your roast beef and cheese.
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Deep Thought
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Deep Thought »

Another owl wrote:I understand what you are saying, but there 2 things that doesen't fit: 1- There's no Agent Coopr so far. And for sure not a Cooper on Twin Peaks. It's been 15 episodes, so, If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", well, they a little behid the schedule. :) 2 - If the series is about “the core of it is Agent Cooper’s odyssey back to Twin Peaks", why fill the episodes with so many new carachters? I thought it is a bit frustraiting seem some carachters with potential (again, Beverly Paige) been so little explored.
Let's consult the holy oracle of Cliffs:

"Appropriately, Odysseus' development as a character is complicated. He is, in every way, "the man of twists and turns". While he does seem to grow throughout his wanderings, the reader should not look at each event as a one more learning experience for the hero. The Odyssey is not a lesson plan for growth; the episodes are not didactic examples of the importance of prudence or anything else. . .

Certainly Odysseus does grow in wisdom and judgment throughout his ventures . . . however, he seems slow to learn.When Aeolus grants the Greeks fair winds to Ithaca, Odysseus falls asleep within sight of home, enabling his suspicious, undisciplined crew to open the bag of ill winds and let loose a tempest that blows them off course. Again, on the island of the Sungod Helios, Odysseus' men disobey strict orders and feast on the sacred cattle when he goes inland to pray and falls asleep. The struggles Odysseus faces make his growth as a character more realistic and more credible because it is not simple or absolute."

Odysseus' men tell us as much about Odysseus as do his own actions.
Last edited by Deep Thought on Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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richsmith
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by richsmith »

I can't believe that, 15 weeks in, people are still actively bothering to complain that "Cooper hasn't shown up yet."
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by rsgmail »

beyondthesea wrote:I didn't really get 'teapot' when we met Phillip Jeffries. I thought it was the same kind of bell shaped thing that was in the Giant's residence and in the room that Cooper gets transported to in outer space.
That's exactly what I thought too. Teapot never entered my mind until I began reading comments after the show.


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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by N. Needleman »

Another owl wrote:
N. Needleman wrote:
Another owl wrote:Let's face it. This is going bad.
K
Don't cry. :wink:
I'm finding a way to muddle through. Please hold me.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: Part 15 - There's some fear in letting go (SPOILERS)

Post by Deep Thought »

If Candy is not involved with stopping Chantal in LV, then I will be disappointed.
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