Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

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writersblock
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:05 am

Denise's Pieces wrote:
writersblock wrote:
Dreamy Audrey wrote:It was "Elk's Point #9 Bar". I thought it was in Twin Peaks, and I don't think there was anything that suggested it was somewhere else. Sarah was walking there. Why would she walk to a different town to have a drink if she can have a drink in Twin Peaks?


Perhaps to hide a drinking problem? People know her in Twin Peaks.

People also know that she buys all of the Smirnoff. She's not hiding it very well.


I know people with drinking problems and - they generally don't. They think if they buy other - usually unnecessary items - with as much alcohol as they want that it hides the amount of booze they are buying. And I have seen them go into pubs for one drink before leaving to find the next one and, basically trying to visit every bar in the neighbourhood so as to hide how drunk they are getting. It generally doesn't work but they are probably the last to know that
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby DirkG » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:10 am

Denise's Pieces wrote:
writersblock wrote:
Dreamy Audrey wrote:It was "Elk's Point #9 Bar". I thought it was in Twin Peaks, and I don't think there was anything that suggested it was somewhere else. Sarah was walking there. Why would she walk to a different town to have a drink if she can have a drink in Twin Peaks?


Perhaps to hide a drinking problem? People know her in Twin Peaks.

People also know that she buys all of the Smirnoff. She's not hiding it very well.


You're able to leave the store quicker than you can (or usually is attempting to) leave a bar. Maybe she's also shopping when there's as few people as possible.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:05 am

"Come to think of it, the reason why the fantastic four (Andy, Hawk, Bobby and Frank) had to put soil from the area around Jack Rabbit Palace in their pockets might be to get them all landed safely in that same area after the "celestial intervention," what they experience as a space-time sort of Vortex."

THIS. Didn't notice/think about until rewatching, but I think the soil gave them some sort of earthly grounding for when the vortex subsided. You see them show up there, half sputtering in time ala the Woodsmen, after their interaction with it.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:07 am

soundchaser wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "double murder" Cole's talking about Major Briggs and Ruth Davenport? Or is there a second "double header" that people are referring to?


Correct, Cole is referring to Briggs/Davenport in that hotel room scene when he is on the phone with the Vegas FBI.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby guildnavigator » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:22 am

DirkG wrote:
Denise's Pieces wrote:
writersblock wrote:
Perhaps to hide a drinking problem? People know her in Twin Peaks.

People also know that she buys all of the Smirnoff. She's not hiding it very well.


You're able to leave the store quicker than you can (or usually is attempting to) leave a bar. Maybe she's also shopping when there's as few people as possible.



My first thought after reading this is that if she was so far isolated when she was shopping for alcohol in the store then how did Hawk hear about it and come over to her house later that day?

It would seem to me that she ran out of booze at home and went to a bar for a drink.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:45 am

cgs027 wrote:"Come to think of it, the reason why the fantastic four (Andy, Hawk, Bobby and Frank) had to put soil from the area around Jack Rabbit Palace in their pockets might be to get them all landed safely in that same area after the "celestial intervention," what they experience as a space-time sort of Vortex."

THIS. Didn't notice/think about until rewatching, but I think the soil gave them some sort of earthly grounding for when the vortex subsided. You see them show up there, half sputtering in time ala the Woodsmen, after their interaction with it.


I didn't get what the dirt in the pockets was all about, but I like this explanation.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Ashok » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:06 pm

docLEXfisti wrote:Btw, if anyone likes it, here's the image from my avatar.


Wow, was this was colored from the B&W footage in Episode 14? Looks really nice. :D
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:28 pm

As someone who has found the overt exposition and de-mystification of stuff like the Blue Rose a tad off-putting, I must say I thoroughly enjoyed the bit of backstory about Cole and Jeffries on the Lois Duffy case. It's fun (and sort of hilarious) to imagine 30-year-old Lynch and Bowie as fresh-faced FBI agents, and cool to get a teeny glimpse into their early career. I do, however, wonder how well this "Blue Rose" backstory will track when we rewatch the old show. Mostly, TP:TR has avoided the continuity pitfalls of TSHoTP by simply not making specific references to the old show, but in the case of the Blue Rose stuff, I do think it will be a tad difficult to rectify some of Cooper's actions/dialogue (particularly regarding Blue Book) with the fact that he was a member of a five-person task force directly descended from Blue Book, and with knowledge of at least some elements of the Lodge world. For instance, Coop and Cole's Episode 25 conversation about Earle's past with Blue Book doesn't quite gel. One could argue that Coop was simply feigning surprise for Harry, but this rings false to me: especially given how much top secret info they were exposing Harry to, I doubt Coop would lie about his own level of knowledge...more likely, he would say, "Harry, I have to level with you..." and confess that he knew about Earle's past but couldn't say anything in the interest of security.

I have a feeling this is one of those instances where fans will give things a lot more thought than L/F did, but my working hypothesis is this: Cole knew about Earle's Blue Book past, and also knew that Earle was too unstable for Blue Rose. However, Earle's knowledge of classified info about Blue Book's research (not to mention his own private research outside his official duties) was valuable, so Cole kept him close...and paired him with a pre-Blue Rose Coop as sort of a test, correctly guessing that Earle would view Coop (a strongly intuitive and spiritual agent) as a mentee/confidante and possibly reveal some stuff -- and how Coop processed/used whatever info Earle fed him would inform whether Dale could be trusted with Blue Rose clearance. Cole never felt the need to tell Coop about Earle's history, especially after things went south, until it became necessary after Windom's escape. Cole in Episode 25 is pretty cagey in his delivery, never EXPLICITLY saying that this is new info to him, but happy to let Coop infer that.

It is interesting that TSH led many of us to anticipate a slightly more sinister puppetmaster Gordon who withheld info from his agents, but TP:TR so far has kept him as a kooky but benevolent grandfatherly Lynch caricature.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby HagbardCeline » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:52 pm

sewhite2000 wrote:
cgs027 wrote:"Come to think of it, the reason why the fantastic four (Andy, Hawk, Bobby and Frank) had to put soil from the area around Jack Rabbit Palace in their pockets might be to get them all landed safely in that same area after the "celestial intervention," what they experience as a space-time sort of Vortex."

THIS. Didn't notice/think about until rewatching, but I think the soil gave them some sort of earthly grounding for when the vortex subsided. You see them show up there, half sputtering in time ala the Woodsmen, after their interaction with it.


I didn't get what the dirt in the pockets was all about, but I like this explanation.


I thought it was very telling that they all were beamed to the spot where the dirt in their pockets had come from. I have to say that this week between episodes has seemed a lot longer than the 2 week break we had earlier in the run. I can't wait to see what happens in their second visit.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby thedarktrees » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:04 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:As someone who has found the overt exposition and de-mystification of stuff like the Blue Rose a tad off-putting, I must say I thoroughly enjoyed the bit of backstory about Cole and Jeffries on the Lois Duffy case. It's fun (and sort of hilarious) to imagine 30-year-old Lynch and Bowie as fresh-faced FBI agents, and cool to get a teeny glimpse into their early career. I do, however, wonder how well this "Blue Rose" backstory will track when we rewatch the old show. Mostly, TP:TR has avoided the continuity pitfalls of TSHoTP by simply not making specific references to the old show, but in the case of the Blue Rose stuff, I do think it will be a tad difficult to rectify some of Cooper's actions/dialogue (particularly regarding Blue Book) with the fact that he was a member of a five-person task force directly descended from Blue Book, and with knowledge of at least some elements of the Lodge world. For instance, Coop and Cole's Episode 25 conversation about Earle's past with Blue Book doesn't quite gel. One could argue that Coop was simply feigning surprise for Harry, but this rings false to me: especially given how much top secret info they were exposing Harry to, I doubt Coop would lie about his own level of knowledge...more likely, he would say, "Harry, I have to level with you..." and confess that he knew about Earle's past but couldn't say anything in the interest of security.

I have a feeling this is one of those instances where fans will give things a lot more thought than L/F did, but my working hypothesis is this: Cole knew about Earle's Blue Book past, and also knew that Earle was too unstable for Blue Rose. However, Earle's knowledge of classified info about Blue Book's research (not to mention his own private research outside his official duties) was valuable, so Cole kept him close...and paired him with a pre-Blue Rose Coop as sort of a test, correctly guessing that Earle would view Coop (a strongly intuitive and spiritual agent) as a mentee/confidante and possibly reveal some stuff -- and how Coop processed/used whatever info Earle fed him would inform whether Dale could be trusted with Blue Rose clearance. Cole never felt the need to tell Coop about Earle's history, especially after things went south, until it became necessary after Windom's escape. Cole in Episode 25 is pretty cagey in his delivery, never EXPLICITLY saying that this is new info to him, but happy to let Coop infer that.

It is interesting that TSH led many of us to anticipate a slightly more sinister puppetmaster Gordon who withheld info from his agents, but TP:TR so far has kept him as a kooky but benevolent grandfatherly Lynch caricature.



Now this is some super interesting stuff here. I think you're onto something with these ideas. I think Albert and Diane have both been shown to know more about things than they're letting on. But I really wonder if Cole still has the jump on them and is holding onto some info. He seems fine with stringing Diane along ("keep her close" I think he says), and doesn't seem threatened by the info she's leaking.

And indeed this might line up with Cole's portrayal in TSHOTP. If i recall, there's even a surprise comment from Tammy at one point (in her notes) about how she discovers some of Cole's schemes and worries about getting fired....

I'm also curious about what insights Cole has on Jeffries, being the only agent in the story who knows anything about him personally.

All this said, I'll be surprised if Earle gets a single mention in Season 3. Honestly, I don't think the story needs any reference to him.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby thedarktrees » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:08 pm

And BTW: what the HELL is up with TSHOTP in relation to Season 3? At this point the whole premise of the dossier case doesn't fit in any way whatsoever with the story. Guess it doesn't have to in the end. But it's not even close. What's the case that produced the dossier? When did Tammy learn about Cooper? From the South Dakota case? Or from the dossier? When and what did they know about Briggs?
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:55 pm

thedarktrees wrote:And BTW: what the HELL is up with TSHOTP in relation to Season 3? At this point the whole premise of the dossier case doesn't fit in any way whatsoever with the story. Guess it doesn't have to in the end. But it's not even close. What's the case that produced the dossier? When did Tammy learn about Cooper? From the South Dakota case? Or from the dossier? When and what did they know about Briggs?

I guess the dossier was just a construct of the book used as a method to tell the story.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby iar » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:37 pm

Great interview with James Marshall on Vulture! Some lovely tidbits there. Check it out:-

http://www.vulture.com/2017/08/twin-peaks-the-return-james-marshall-interview.html?utm_campaign=vulture&utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s1
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby thedarktrees » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:58 pm

Ross wrote:
thedarktrees wrote:And BTW: what the HELL is up with TSHOTP in relation to Season 3? At this point the whole premise of the dossier case doesn't fit in any way whatsoever with the story. Guess it doesn't have to in the end. But it's not even close. What's the case that produced the dossier? When did Tammy learn about Cooper? From the South Dakota case? Or from the dossier? When and what did they know about Briggs?

I guess the dossier was just a construct of the book used as a method to tell the story.


Probably this. And in the end, that's fine. TSHOTP was great, and season 3 is great.

But I always really liked the premise of the dossier and I was hoping it would play into the season in some way. Or maybe that Season 3 would answer some of the questions that everyone was talking about when the book came out (what was the murder? who REALLY is the archivist? etc).

Season 3 def takes off and does its own thing -- different from the original, different from TSHOTP. It's absolutely great for that.
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Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:36 pm

I know who the Dreamer may be. The woodsman put people to sleep in Part 8 and then the mother invades their dreams with her own.

Destroy the mother, destroy the dream.
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