Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: Brad D, Annie, Jonah, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne

rdowens1215
New Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:09 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by rdowens1215 »

I just cringe when James sings. I like him better after the conversation with the new guy---the security guard

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
User avatar
soundchaser
New Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by soundchaser »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "double murder" Cole's talking about Major Briggs and Ruth Davenport? Or is there a second "double header" that people are referring to?
claaa7
Great Northern Member
Posts: 715
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:47 am

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by claaa7 »

soundchaser wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "double murder" Cole's talking about Major Briggs and Ruth Davenport? Or is there a second "double header" that people are referring to?
they are talking about the murder that Mister C sent out Hutch and Chantal to do in Las Vegas following the offing of Warden Murphy.. we only know that its two people that he wants killed
User avatar
DeepBlueSeed
RR Diner Member
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:32 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by DeepBlueSeed »

writersblock wrote:
firefly2193 wrote:For me this episode, in contrast to the past few parts highlighted why The Return can be a bit polarising for me. The scenes that feel the most alive and exhilarating are those that engage primarily through visual, intuitive film-making - scenes like the extended Naido/woods scene, or the Sarah Palmer scene. When The Return gets bogged down in characters simply talking in a room, often talking about events that we already know, there's a sense of over-exposition and heavy handedness.

An example of both of these was in the opening scene with Cole's dream. On the one hand, the visual story being told was both tantalising and subtly unnerving. But it was slightly undermined by Cole literally describing the events we were seeing on screen as they happened, or even just before they happened. I feel this could've been entirely more effective if we were simply shown Cole's dream without narration. Essentially, for me the show thrives when it shows rather than tells.
To be honest - that is a method that is employed by literally every other show out there. I think subverting it the way it did and having him explain the events made it that bit different than expected.
It's also an interesting counterpoint to Andy's visit to the White Lodge and the narration of Freddie's visit to the White Lodge. These two dream-like experiences - one we experience entirely via visuals, leaving us to try to decipher it without knowing if Andy gets any further information on an intuitive level (aside from the brief comment he makes about Naido needing to be taken to safety), whereas the other we experience through a character relating the information he receives, so we can't be sure whether he's been literally told these things, shown these things, or really anything about his actual experience. Cole's experience bridges these two versions and, in doing so, perhaps illustrates how the things we see in his dream are open to the interpretation of his mind. Would we have drawn the same conclusions if he were not narrating the dream we see, if we just saw a montage of meeting a film star in a Parisian street and then a series of flashbacks?
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "
User avatar
DeepBlueSeed
RR Diner Member
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:32 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by DeepBlueSeed »

Saturn's child wrote:
Xavi wrote:Naido wears Lucy’s pink morning-robe.
Haven’t I seen that before: In IE there were the two female RABBITS wearing these pink robes as well.
It’s all about the bunny …
Nice! I also find Naido resembles the Experiment, both being eyeless.
It's funny - I came on this morning wondering about the connection. Perhaps they are Black/White versions of the same being, seeing a duality is such a big thing in the show.
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "
writersblock
RR Diner Member
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:03 am

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by writersblock »

Dreamy Audrey wrote:It was "Elk's Point #9 Bar". I thought it was in Twin Peaks, and I don't think there was anything that suggested it was somewhere else. Sarah was walking there. Why would she walk to a different town to have a drink if she can have a drink in Twin Peaks?
Perhaps to hide a drinking problem? People know her in Twin Peaks.
User avatar
Xavi
RR Diner Member
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:23 am

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by Xavi »

DeepBlueSeed wrote:
Saturn's child wrote:
Xavi wrote:Naido wears Lucy’s pink morning-robe.
Haven’t I seen that before: In IE there were the two female RABBITS wearing these pink robes as well.
It’s all about the bunny …
Nice! I also find Naido resembles the Experiment, both being eyeless.
It's funny - I came on this morning wondering about the connection. Perhaps they are Black/White versions of the same being, seeing a duality is such a big thing in the show.
Actually my gut feeling tells me something completely different. Naido seems vaguely connected to "the mauve world," where the Giant/???????/Fireman resides with his lovely lady surrounded by music from the past. Whereas "The Experiment" sprouted from the nuclear blast, which makes her closely connected to earthly phenomena.

Come to think of it, the reason why the fantastic four (Andy, Hawk, Bobby and Frank) had to put soil from the area around Jack Rabbit Palace in their pockets might be to get them all landed safely in that same area after the "celestial intervention," what they experience as a space-time sort of Vortex.

Naido ... she is another one that "fell to earth," so she is an otherworldly entity, homeless and according to my understanding based upon IE, that means she resides somewhere in the in-between zone, between death and life.

The RABBITS ... in a poetical way they are the cause of having our feet on the ground.

Well, these are all just my opinions of course and feel free to see it your own way. After all "it's a free c***-ry." ; - )
jason976
New Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:20 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by jason976 »

:oops:
claaa7 wrote:
soundchaser wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "double murder" Cole's talking about Major Briggs and Ruth Davenport? Or is there a second "double header" that people are referring to?
they are talking about the murder that Mister C sent out Hutch and Chantal to do in Las Vegas following the offing of Warden Murphy.. we only know that its two people that he wants killed
The double header in Vegas hasn't occurred yet. When Cole calls the Vegas FBI he is referring to Ruth and Briggs.
dronerstone
RR Diner Member
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:31 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by dronerstone »

Roadhouse: has become a hip, trendy veneu for the younger crowd to enjoy drinks, dancing and live music

Elk's Point: LOCAL DIVE
User avatar
DeepBlueSeed
RR Diner Member
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:32 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by DeepBlueSeed »

Xavi wrote:
DeepBlueSeed wrote:
Saturn's child wrote:

Nice! I also find Naido resembles the Experiment, both being eyeless.
It's funny - I came on this morning wondering about the connection. Perhaps they are Black/White versions of the same being, seeing a duality is such a big thing in the show.
Actually my gut feeling tells me something completely different. Naido seems vaguely connected to "the mauve world," where the Giant/???????/Fireman resides with his lovely lady surrounded by music from the past. Whereas "The Experiment" sprouted from the nuclear blast, which makes her closely connected to earthly phenomena.

Come to think of it, the reason why the fantastic four (Andy, Hawk, Bobby and Frank) had to put soil from the area around Jack Rabbit Palace in their pockets might be to get them all landed safely in that same area after the "celestial intervention," what they experience as a space-time sort of Vortex.

Naido ... she is another one that "fell to earth," so she is an otherworldly entity, homeless and according to my understanding based upon IE, that means she resides somewhere in the in-between zone, between death and life.

The RABBITS ... in a poetical way they are the cause of having our feet on the ground.

Well, these are all just my opinions of course and feel free to see it your own way. After all "it's a free c***-ry." ; - )
To be fair, my Black/White speculation is just recognition of some sort of duality rather than trying to define it. We've never seen The Experiment in the Black Lodge, just as we've never seen Naido in the White Lodge, although The Experiment is linked to BOB and the White Lodge seems to exist within the Mauve World (or be accessible from it). Duality seems to be playing a major part - Cooper and his doppelgänger, Laura's glowing insides versus Sarah's dark interior, the coin motif. I did wonder whether Naido might also be some sort of Mother figure, that her appearance from a portal echoes the appearance of The Experiment in New York. But I'm just clutching at straws here - there's too little to go on to form a more concrete idea.
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "
User avatar
zeronumber
RR Diner Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:42 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by zeronumber »

The Running Girl probably is the signet logo and response for the death of Laura and all the terror, horror and other deleterious effects it represents in Twin Peaks....and beyond.

Sent from my NEC-NE-201A1A using Tapatalk
User avatar
Xavi
RR Diner Member
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:23 am

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by Xavi »

claaa7 wrote:i'm fascinated by the repeated use of the girl running across the school yard screaming excised from the original Pilot.. it was pretty much the first image we saw of the entire new series and now it returns once again in Andy's lodge visions. i wonder what's the significance here?
Hm, yeah, this is a very enigmatic focus on an almost trivial occurrence indeed, and in someways I think it might be related to all those locked up girls in some hotel at the end of IE. All these girls including Lost Girl who was stuck in Room 205, run out as all doors suddenly swung open after the RABBITS had vanished from their room ...

I'd bet it has something to do with the telling of time: after midnight.
User avatar
docLEXfisti
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 9:59 am

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by docLEXfisti »

Btw, if anyone likes it, here's the image from my avatar.

Image
Last edited by docLEXfisti on Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
LateReg
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1435
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

DeepBlueSeed wrote:
writersblock wrote:
firefly2193 wrote:For me this episode, in contrast to the past few parts highlighted why The Return can be a bit polarising for me. The scenes that feel the most alive and exhilarating are those that engage primarily through visual, intuitive film-making - scenes like the extended Naido/woods scene, or the Sarah Palmer scene. When The Return gets bogged down in characters simply talking in a room, often talking about events that we already know, there's a sense of over-exposition and heavy handedness.

An example of both of these was in the opening scene with Cole's dream. On the one hand, the visual story being told was both tantalising and subtly unnerving. But it was slightly undermined by Cole literally describing the events we were seeing on screen as they happened, or even just before they happened. I feel this could've been entirely more effective if we were simply shown Cole's dream without narration. Essentially, for me the show thrives when it shows rather than tells.
To be honest - that is a method that is employed by literally every other show out there. I think subverting it the way it did and having him explain the events made it that bit different than expected.
It's also an interesting counterpoint to Andy's visit to the White Lodge and the narration of Freddie's visit to the White Lodge. These two dream-like experiences - one we experience entirely via visuals, leaving us to try to decipher it without knowing if Andy gets any further information on an intuitive level (aside from the brief comment he makes about Naido needing to be taken to safety), whereas the other we experience through a character relating the information he receives, so we can't be sure whether he's been literally told these things, shown these things, or really anything about his actual experience. Cole's experience bridges these two versions and, in doing so, perhaps illustrates how the things we see in his dream are open to the interpretation of his mind. Would we have drawn the same conclusions if he were not narrating the dream we see, if we just saw a montage of meeting a film star in a Parisian street and then a series of flashbacks?
Excellent observation. As so many of these parts are grouped thematically, I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to how Part 14 ticks.
User avatar
Denise's Pieces
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 4:13 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Post by Denise's Pieces »

writersblock wrote:
Dreamy Audrey wrote:It was "Elk's Point #9 Bar". I thought it was in Twin Peaks, and I don't think there was anything that suggested it was somewhere else. Sarah was walking there. Why would she walk to a different town to have a drink if she can have a drink in Twin Peaks?
Perhaps to hide a drinking problem? People know her in Twin Peaks.
People also know that she buys all of the Smirnoff. She's not hiding it very well.
Post Reply