Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

[Ragnell]

Someone help me out here please. In the scene with Bushnell, Anthony and Dougie, Bushnell says "and those two cops that dougie found?" Anthony answers "he knows about them too?"

Maybe this is a silly question, but what are they talking about? Did I miss something?

Spotted this on my rewatch last night too. My guess is that he's talking about the 2 cops Anthony saw in the ally as they're obviously part of Duncan Todd's operation.

I also was intrigues by Bushnell's line that Dougie 'even implicated himself' in this. Was Dougie Jones in on all of the DT business? Have they met before? Interesting insight into the life of the preCoop Dougie.

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Dougie was basically a secondary doppelganger. That he indulged in booze, sex, infidelity and gambling, all things Cooper approached with measured moderation, implied he was another, less dangerous shadowself for Coop. A little corruption isn't surprising either.

[Ragnell]

There are many ways to approach time in narrative, and in terms of story structure, none of them necessarily have anything to do with the in-world story time working against the normal physical laws of nature as we know them.

In stories that deal with circular time, which many fabulist stories do, or in the style known as switchback time, the narrator arranges the story in a non-linear fashion because that gets to the heart of the story in some fundamental way.

For example, we might start with the story of Mr. X with a few scenes in the present and show how he's obsessed with aliens. He's so obsessed that he loses his wife and children to divorce.

Then in the next series of scenes, we shift back 30 years and see Mr. X's father was always taking him on bigfoot hunting expeditions. Mr. X loved this time with his father, although his father eventually drinks himself to an early grave due to his never finding bigfoot. We see the irony now that Mr. X developed an obsession for mystery by bonding with his father which eventually destroys his own family decades later.

We have never actually traveled back in time, but our story has show us the past to underscore the irony of the present.


We can read the Shelly-Becky switchback scenes similarly. In the "present" we see Becky going nuts and almost killing her mother in her rage at Stephen's behavior.

Then we shift back a day or two to see that Shelly had tried to help Becky by giving her a piece of cherry pie, and we realize how this had zero effect on Becky's state of well being -- her mother's act of kindness had no real lasting power. The cherry pie had no magical effects that could make such dysfunction better.

This time shift criticizes what we had been taking at face value in the Dougie story line, and in Twin Peaks in general -- that there's any inherent goodness in material enjoyment. This almost seems to suggest that Dougie's current pie-glazed happiness is unsustainable.

So these time shifts can create interesting meanings when we read how they work with the stories themes and symbols. There's no reason to assume the laws of nature are actually being transgressed, even if such a thing is possible in Twin Peaks.

I love this analysis, because it ties almost all of 13 together. The whole thing is about material gain and fleeting happiness. The Mitchems throwing around gifts. Janey-E and Sonny Jim's happiness shown with the ominous spotlight of Lodge misery chasing the kid around his playground. Mama Fusco inviting her boys over for some food and bonding, which they KNOW will be derailed by reality. Chantel and Hutch discussing how there should be more Mormons, and concluding its because they restrict alcohol and caffeine. Norma being pressured to use cheaper ingrediants for more money.

And we see it all driven home with Tony Sinclair and Big Ed. Big Ed goes to the diner for light company and comfort food, but its spoiled by lacking that meaningful romance with Norma.

And Tony. Tony was about to kill Dougie over this insurance fraud scheme. All that happiness from the extra money he was getting melted away when faced with havinh to end the life of one of his friends.

[Saela]

Someone help me out here please. In the scene with Bushnell, Anthony and Dougie, Bushnell says "and those two cops that dougie found?" Anthony answers "he knows about them too?"

Maybe this is a silly question, but what are they talking about? Did I miss something?

Spotted this on my rewatch last night too. My guess is that he's talking about the 2 cops Anthony saw in the ally as they're obviously part of Duncan Todd's operation.

I also was intrigues by Bushnell's line that Dougie 'even implicated himself' in this. Was Dougie Jones in on all of the DT business? Have they met before? Interesting insight into the life of the preCoop Dougie.

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Yeah, I guess you're right. Thanks!

[Dreamy Audrey]

Someone help me out here please. In the scene with Bushnell, Anthony and Dougie, Bushnell says "and those two cops that dougie found?" Anthony answers "he knows about them too?"

Maybe this is a silly question, but what are they talking about? Did I miss something?

Spotted this on my rewatch last night too. My guess is that he's talking about the 2 cops Anthony saw in the ally as they're obviously part of Duncan Todd's operation.

That's my guess as well. I also thought they were the two investigating officers on Dougie's case files because that's the only way for Bushnell to know about them. But the names don't match, the officers in the case files are Detective Loomis and Detective Stockton, the cop Anthony was talking to was credited as Detective Clark (the second one was only credited as "Crooked Partner"). So either it's a prop error or they were different cops (there could be more than two cops in on it).

[writersblock]

"Dutchman" is 8 letters and wasn't there 8 question marks about Carl Struycken's character? Could it be Evil Coop is trying to access the White Lodge to control or destroy it?

I think there were 7

[Novalis]

There are many ways to approach time in narrative, and in terms of story structure, none of them necessarily have anything to do with the in-world story time working against the normal physical laws of nature as we know them.

In stories that deal with circular time, which many fabulist stories do, or in the style known as switchback time, the narrator arranges the story in a non-linear fashion because that gets to the heart of the story in some fundamental way.

For example, we might start with the story of Mr. X with a few scenes in the present and show how he's obsessed with aliens. He's so obsessed that he loses his wife and children to divorce.

Then in the next series of scenes, we shift back 30 years and see Mr. X's father was always taking him on bigfoot hunting expeditions. Mr. X loved this time with his father, although his father eventually drinks himself to an early grave due to his never finding bigfoot. We see the irony now that Mr. X developed an obsession for mystery by bonding with his father which eventually destroys his own family decades later.

We have never actually traveled back in time, but our story has show us the past to underscore the irony of the present.


We can read the Shelly-Becky switchback scenes similarly. In the "present" we see Becky going nuts and almost killing her mother in her rage at Stephen's behavior.

Then we shift back a day or two to see that Shelly had tried to help Becky by giving her a piece of cherry pie, and we realize how this had zero effect on Becky's state of well being -- her mother's act of kindness had no real lasting power. The cherry pie had no magical effects that could make such dysfunction better.

This time shift criticizes what we had been taking at face value in the Dougie story line, and in Twin Peaks in general -- that there's any inherent goodness in material enjoyment. This almost seems to suggest that Dougie's current pie-glazed happiness is unsustainable.

So these time shifts can create interesting meanings when we read how they work with the stories themes and symbols. There's no reason to assume the laws of nature are actually being transgressed, even if such a thing is possible in Twin Peaks.

This is a well-reasoned, sober post which I mostly agree with. Fabula and syuzhet (or story and plot) do not have to walk side by side, and certain effects (dramatic irony, as noted) often depend on them parting company. When what is shown to us appears to flash back or forward, in most cases it is simply to develop or add depth to a linear narrative, overlaying it with extra information. That parts of peoples' stories may be shown 'out of order' does not necessarily entail that they are happening out of order.

[TheLodger1980]

My bad. I was thinking it was 8 question marks.

[TheLodger1980]

Or maybe the Dutchman is the vehicle to get to the White Lodge?

[TheLodger1980]

Or maybe the Dutchman is the vehicle to get to the White Lodge?

[TheLodger1980]

Or maybe the Dutchman is the vehicle to get to the White Lodge?

[wxray]

Back to Sarah, she could be aware of the TV, is USED to it, and can't control it. The electrical zapping sound each loop- sounds like a bug zapper- but she'd be too young to be the 1956 bug girl.

I respectfully disagree. Sarah is the perfect age to be the bug girl. Graze Zabriskie was born in 1941. Let's assume Sarah is the same age as the actress portraying her. That would make bug girl 15, which is spot on perfect.

To add to the idea of Sarah being bug girl. Put headphones on and listen to end of Part 8, a few seconds before the end credits begin, and listen to the horse neighing. Horse = Sarah's Visions.

[pixletwin]

I think the likelihood that Sarah is girl (1956) is pretty strong.

[Wally Brando]

re-watching last night

it seems like Charlie says "Enter Story 2"

sorry haven't read the posts lately - apologize if stated earlier.

but since she goes on about Little Girl Down the Lane, I believe that it's clearly a NEW storyline Charlie is going to take her down.

And it seems Audrey doesn't want to go there.

"end your story too" - doesn't make sense cause who else's story is he ending?

If it's a very meta thing, and Charlie in some way represents Lynch/Frost, one story that they ended was Donna's.

TVLINE:
One thing you did release ahead of time was a very lengthy list of all the cast members participating in the revival. Of course, my eyes immediately focused on the names that were missing, like Lara Flynn Boyle. I was a big fan of the Donna character and was disappointed to see that she wouldn’t be in it. Why isn’t she in it?

DAVID LYNCH:
These days people love strange Hollywood side stories that have nothing to do with the film. You can go talk to Lara Flynn Boyle. This is a story that takes place without her.

https://tvline.com/2017/05/19/twin-peak ... vid-lynch/

I'd have thought that if they were going to include Donna then Moira Kelly should've had first refusal anyway.

[krishnanspace]

Me and my friend were discussing about the co-ordinates today and we noticed one loophole.Major Briggs requests the co-ordinates from Hastings and the secretary.After Diane enters the co-ordinates on her phone,we know it leads to Twin Peaks.Now why would Major Briggs request them to get the co-ordinates that point to Twin Peaks itself??It would be like asking someone for their own home address.Major Briggs would himself be aware of such place.Its not like Twin Peaks is a very large place.Somethings seems very wrong.

[bosguy1981]

Me and my friend were discussing about the co-ordinates today and we noticed one loophole.Major Briggs requests the co-ordinates from Hastings and the secretary.After Diane enters the co-ordinates on her phone,we know it leads to Twin Peaks.Now why would Major Briggs request them to get the co-ordinates that point to Twin Peaks itself??It would be like asking someone for their own home address.Major Briggs would himself be aware of such place.Its not like Twin Peaks is a very large place.Somethings seems very wrong.

Just curious, are you assuming that Diane has access to the CORRECT coordinates to type into her phone? It seemed so unlikely to me that Albert and Gordon would share the actual coordinates on Ruth's arm with Diane, considering they already suspected her of something fishy about this.

Albert takes a picture of Ruth's arm on his phone, then later presents Gordon (and Diane) with a printed photograph of that. Doesn't it seem more likely that Albert deliberately photoshopped the picture to give different coordinates to Diane and trick her (and whoever she's texting?)

If that's correct, it would explain that the coordinates DO lead elsewhere, and not in Twin Peaks.

(I haven't been paying as close attention to this as other people, so I may be missing something really obvious here).